What's your fav scandal story?

[Sean]

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[SueNZ]

Then more recently a few people (name them, tell me who they are Marg Thatcher said to George Negus) have suggested that NZ winemakers might be adding other varieties (like Shiraz) to their pinots to beef them up a bit. BTW there's nothing wrong with that as long as they tell us if they are.

Whether they are adding shiraz to pinot or not, they do not have to tell that they are, so long as it comes with the percentage allowed by the labelling laws. I believe Aus and NZ are now adhereing to the same regulations - and that conforms to the EU regulations for obvious reasons. The Aussie ones are at this link http://www.awbc.com.au/winelaw/wine_label_law.asp - scroll way down to varieties.

In short, there can be up to 15% unnamed varieties on a wine that is labelled as only one variety.

As for adding Shiraz to pinot, why on earth would they want to do that?


Cheers,
Sue

[Adam]

Why add shiraz to pinot?? I understand that some of the longest lived burgundies from france were "juiced up" with shiraz from the Rhone...reports are the wines were fantastic. I think the practice stopped around the 30's.

[Davo]

Not uncommon in Oz either.

[Guest]

Why add shiraz to pinot?? I understand that some of the longest lived burgundies from france were "juiced up" with shiraz from the Rhone...reports are the wines were fantastic. I think the practice stopped around the 30's.

The famous Dr Barolet's from the 1920's & 30's have a small dose of brandy added to them.

[Guest]

Martin's 98 Grange Conspiracy!!

[Barney]

Charles Melton does a Shiraz/Pinot. When at their cellar door it was explained to me that the blend was very popular in France up to the 1930's. I quite enjoyed it but have never seen it retail.

[Sean]

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[michel]

My favourite is the allegedly sold Dry River Pinots which were returned to the vineyard which actually were NOT Dry River Pinots. Someone had filled them with a different wine. How true is that ???
michel

[GraemeG]

Charles Melton does a Shiraz/Pinot. When at their cellar door it was explained to me that the blend was very popular in France up to the 1930's. I quite enjoyed it but have never seen it retail.

One of the worst wine I ever smelt (didn't even dream of putting it in my mouth) was a late 50s Mt Pleasant Phillip Pinot Hermitage. Grim indeed.
No wonder that particular blend has died out.

Hermitage was occasionally added to burgundy (and Bordeaux too) in the past to beef up particularly insipid vintages...

cheers,
Graeme.

PS Oh, and it was John Davoren who created St Henri - and not til 1956. Hooke's book on Schubert has a good background information on this issue.

[DJ]

Further to the St Henri - as per VC Newsletter November 2002
"While 1957 was the first vintage of Penfolds St Henri released commercially, its creator, John Davoren, made a trial vintage in 1956. What a surprise, then, for the Penfolds makers to see a 1955 St Henri presented for recorking at the recent Sydney red wine clinic. Winemaker Peter Gago, who tasted it, says it was in good nick. And retired winemaker, John Bird, recalled having seen the 1955, then unlabelled, maturing in the Penfolds’ cellars in the 1950s. The name St Henri, of course, goes back to the nineteenth century when it was owned by Auldana cellars, just up the road from Penfolds Magill winery. Penfolds still have an intact bottle of the 1911 vintage."

So who knows what the full answer is, especially given (as mentioned) it was a revived name

[Sean]

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[Muscat Mike]

Sean,
from memory I think the 55 was actually mainly Cab/Sav.??
MM.

[Sean]

deleted

[Kieran]

I'm pretty sure that it was the '53 Grange which was Cab Sav.

Kieran

[Mark S]

A few years ago (1999 from memory) there was a sizeable counterfeiting scam involving 1990 St Henri. The fraudster had apparently relabelled some thousand or two bottles of Penfolds Rawsons Retreat with copies of the actual label as found on a genuine 1990 St Henri. He then got busy, offloading one or two dozen at a time (so as not to arouse suspicion) at various retailers, auction houses, wine clubs, etc. in several states. Fortuitously, one store owner who had recently handled a dozen box of real St Henri's noticed that the weight of the "new" ones was significantly less ( Rawsons uses a lighter bottle than the Penfolds super-premiums), called the cops while the scammer was still in his store waiting to be paid, and the guy got nabbed. Went to trial and did a stretch inside. Unaware of any of this, I'd found a bargain of a lifetime, a dozen St Henri 1990 for $20-something a bottle, on a new auction website (australianwineauction.com, no longer in existence) and wanting to cover the cost of my own drinking, put a few bottles into another wine auction. Imagine my surprise when I got a call asking me to come in for a discreet chat with the auction proprietor & a severe looking gentleman who was clearly from some "enforcement authority". Fortunately, I had records detailing my purchase, and in fact got a refund on my original purchase amount from the web-based auction house just before they went belly-up.
I retain one bottle of fake St Henri 1990 as a curio.

[SueNZ]

Hi Sue

Why add shiraz to pinot? For a lot of diehard pinot fans it is unthinkable. Just as I doubt that serious pinot winemakers would do it - here or in NZ.

Which brings me to my real pt. You sound a bit defensive when you say "why on earth would they want to do that?" That's the whole pt about a scandal. Even if it's untrue, a bit of mud still sticks & that's unfair.

Well, pinot grows like a weed here and shiraz /syrah doesn't. Besides - have you tasted some of pinots coming out of NZ lately - huge huge wines, some of which are overly alcoholic and even a little portish in my opinion. I reckon some of them need unbeefing, if anything. But next time I taste a 'peppery' pinot, I'll think about the Syrah possibility. As you say, they could do anything.

You talk about Shiraz/Viognier as being really trendy. Perhaps Pinot Noir / Pinot Gris co-fermented blends will be the next big thing.

As for undisclosed varieties, it used to be (and maybe still is) that if a wine is made to sell here in NZ only, it can have up to 25% of other varieties than that stated on the label. Most producers confirm to EU regs, however, as most want - or need - to export.

Though just found out yesterday that the Tri-Nations Shiraz/Syrah winner, the Kingsley Estate Syrah, has 12% Cab Sauv and 12% Malbec in the blend. I do not have a bottle to see if this is mentioned on the back label.


Cheers,
Sue

[GraemeG]

A few years ago (1999 from memory) there was a sizeable counterfeiting scam involving 1990 St Henri

Mark,
I too have a fake St Henri, but rather a bottle of the 1992 - an odd vintage to fake, you'd think. It was given to me by Michael Buring (ex Lawsons auctioneers) who reckoned he'd been brought a fair quantity of dodgy St Henri to flog. It, too, was a Rawson's bottle.

I wondered if someone had just been opportunistic anfd found a whole lot of dumped, unused labels, but the ink on them looks not quite 'set' either - I'd have thought any half-decent auctioneer would have picked up on them pretty quickly.

I tihnk it was this and the equally notorious fake 90 Granges that led Southcorp into the security etching they use on their top (5?) reds.

(Anyone noticed it spreading to JR / Michael yet, by the way?)

cheers,
Graeme

[ChrisH]

Sean

Thankyou for the fascinating Penfolds story. Can't think of any scandals that are not in the public arena but I'll put my thinking cap on....


Sue

Now that NZ is growing more Shiraz, the opportunity for bolstering a Pinot in a year where the Pinot is a bit underweight, is there. I am positive that happened in the past in one of our cooler Victorian areas - the producer's Pinot and Shiraz were both quite peppery. Doesn't seem to be the case nowadays, so maybe they got the viticulture right for the Pinot and it did not need bolstering any more


regards
Chris

[Davo]

A curly one.

Is there anything in the regs to stop addition of Oz juice to NZ juice, or vice a verca, as long as it is less than 15% if not mentioned, or perhaps labelled as "International Wine made in NZ (or Oz)" if greater than 15%?

Just a thought.

[Kieran]

In an effort to keep prices down, Montana have been adding Chilean juice to some of their wines for a while.

Kieran

[Davo]

Kieran,

the reason I asked is because a lot of cask plonk in Oz is imported grape juice from Spain or South America, vinified in Australia and labelled as Wine made in Australia. There is also one West Australian who is avoiding Indonesian alcohol import laws by sending Margaret River grape juice to Bali and vinifying it there.

As far as I can ascertain from the Oz and NZ labelling laws there is nothing to prevent Oz shiraz being added to NZ pinot at leass than 15% and it still being labelled as a regional NZ pinot. Who really knows, that may be exactly how they beefed it up.

[David Cross]

One of the greatest Australian reds i have drunks was Lindemans 1959 Bin 1590 an Shiraz with a dash of Pinot. There is a long and illustrious tradition of blendind a little Pinot with shiraz in the Hunter.

Incidentally why do people so love a scandal.

[brad]

As far as I can ascertain from the Oz and NZ labelling laws there is nothing to prevent Oz shiraz being added to NZ pinot at leass than 15% and it still being labelled as a regional NZ pinot. Who really knows, that may be exactly how they beefed it up.

G'day Davo, any cross country blending must be stated in full on the label. However, as its not clearly expressed by the AWBC, I imagine you could have a situation like this:

Wine made from:
90% Australian Shiraz
10% New Zealand Pinot

Your labelling would definitely need to say:
90% Australia
10% New Zealand

But I reckon you could claim it to be Shiraz (without mentioning pinot).

Cheers, brad

[JamieBahrain]

Regarding the fake 1990 St Henri.

I remember the easiest way to spot the difference was the capsule. Premium Penfolds have Penfolds labelled on the head of the capsule where as cheaper Penfolds have the bunch of grapes imprint.

[Davo]

G'day Davo, any cross country blending must be stated in full on the label. However, as its not clearly expressed by the AWBC, I imagine you could have a situation like this:

Wine made from:
90% Australian Shiraz
10% New Zealand Pinot

Your labelling would definitely need to say:
90% Australia
10% New Zealand

But I reckon you could claim it to be Shiraz (without mentioning pinot).

Cheers, brad

Quite right Brad. I just checked the AWBC site myself, but I have a feeling this is a recent ruling. I see they are still debating these laws at an international level. The labelling ruling is pasted below:-

Two or more countries of origin-

A blend of grapes that is produced in more than one country must be identified on a label in a manner that mentions first the country with the larger or largest percentage of the blend and, the percentage of the blends. An example of labelling for a blend produced in say, two countries might be; 'PRODUCE OF AUSTRALIA 90%; CHILE 10%' (Please note that the ‘85% rule’ does NOT apply to country of origin of wine and, any percentage of wine from a second country in a blend must be stated – AWBC Reg. 19).

Note: it is is recommended not to use the words Made in Australia because under Trade Practices Act legislation Made in may imply to a consumer the product is imported but has been substantially processed in Australia under conditions prescribed in that Act. The whole issue about rules of origin are being debated globally in the World Trade Organisation forum and the outcome will be advised in due course.
Ref: AWBC Act Regulation 19 FSC Standard 1.1A.3 (Transitional)


Thanks mate

[David Lole]

Not much of a 'scandal', but certainly 'scandalous' and one of my all-time faves.

At our local wine club meeting, comments on a particular "masked wine" were proceeding as per usual when a member who happens to be a local winemaker rose to his feet and quipped "whoever made this wine should be shot!". Without too much delay, the president called on the winemaster to unveil the wine and yes, indeedy, it was a local wine and have a guess who made it? Hmmm.....how would you feel?

[SueNZ]

Re blends
If the producer makes a blend, why doesn't he/she/they label it as such? We are so pretentious sometimes, in that pinot noir has to be pinot noir, etc, and any addition is looked upon with disdain. If blends are being made and if the wine is good, then the producer could be a hero for revealing it and we could be saying, 'Wow, clever guy, that makes a mighty nice drink. Why don't more people do this?'.

I remember a pinot tokay - or was it a shiraz tokay, from Peter Lehman purchased in early 90's. To my palate then it was really yummy.

I remember a delicious Sauvignon Blanc from one of NZ's cult producers (not known for savvy), when I asked him he revealed to me it had the maxiumum allowable amount of chardonnay in it, not mentioned at all on the label. It was the style of savvy for non savvy drinkers.

Most of the multi-country blends in NZ are labelled as such with "Produce of NZ, Aus, Chile, France, Argentina, South Africa and Spain' - well I am still waiting for that particular one but some have 3 or 4 countries stated on the label, albeit sometimes in such fine print that it could almost not be there. The worst are when you have to hold the bottle in a certain light to see some of the wording. Some are really misleading to the consumer.

There are also one or two producers, e.g. Villa Maria and Kim Crawford where the only differentiation being maybe one word on the front label and something in small print on the back label. Earlier this year KC had four 2003 sauv blancs on the market, Two were in screwcap (the standard Marlborough and an early release Marlborough), two were in cork (a HB wine with a green capsule and a HB, Marl, Nelson blend with a black capsule). I wonder how many consumers walked out of a shop thinking they had bought the sensational gold medal and trophy winning KC Marlborough Sauv Blanc 2003 but had instead bought one of the other wines.

Cheers,
Sue

[SueNZ]

Not much of a 'scandal', but certainly 'scandalous' and one of my all-time faves.

At our local wine club meeting, comments on a particular "masked wine" were proceeding as per usual when a member who happens to be a local winemaker rose to his feet and quipped "whoever made this wine should be shot!". Without too much delay, the president called on the winemaster to unveil the wine and yes, indeedy, it was a local wine and have a guess who made it? Hmmm.....how would you feel?

hehehehe, I wonder how many times the local winemaker has been reminded of this.

[Murray]

[quote="SueNZ"]There are also one or two producers, e.g. Villa Maria and Kim Crawford where the only differentiation being maybe one word on the front label and something in small print on the back label. Earlier this year KC had four 2003 sauv blancs on the market, Two were in screwcap (the standard Marlborough and an early release Marlborough), two were in cork (a HB wine with a green capsule and a HB, Marl, Nelson blend with a black capsule). I wonder how many consumers walked out of a shop thinking they had bought the sensational gold medal and trophy winning KC Marlborough Sauv Blanc 2003 but had instead bought one of the other wines. [quote]

Sue,

I've also noted that some winelabels make the vintage hard to find; either by making it pale against the background or on the back label. With a couple I've noticed that this format happened the vintage after a very good (and highly rated) vintage.