Australian Cabernet clones

707 · Post by **707** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:05 pm

IMO we've produced some great Cabernets in various parts on this great land and are continuing to do so when the gods smile on us.

With the advancement of science, clones have become an exciting and forward pushing frontier.

I found something interesting about Cabernet clones being used in Australia as well as in the majority of vineyards worldwide.

The Vine Improvement Bodies of both France and Italy, undertook a study into Cabernet Sauvingnon clones and evaluated wine quality against a various selection of clones. The results indicated a handful of clones produced superior quality wine.

It turns out that the clones in use in Australia are not the superior ones identified. As a result SAVI (South Australian Vine Improvement) imported a couple of the chosen clones from France and Italy to ultimately evaluate these clones under our soil and climatic conditions together with our viticulture and winemaking practices.

I'm unsure how extensively these have been propagated as yet but I know of at least one viticulturalist who has had small vineyards of these planted since 2001. It will be interesting to see the results as he's keeping the fruit separate to evaluate the results and see how they compare to his already excellent older plantings. Stay tuned over the next few years for outcomes!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:38 am

Petition
Graft all existing Cabernet vines into Shiraz. Better demand.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:18 am

What could be worse than a great dinner party where all the wines are big rich Shiraz?

Variety is the spice of life so the more varieties and the more regional differences and the more winemaking styles the better.

smithy · Post by **smithy** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:32 am

Steve
I think you have to take such work with a grain ( or more) of salt.
If the French and Italians undertook the study maybe they had a percieved interest in what the outcome was.
At best they would have been looking through European eyes at what percieved quality is...after all there is no absolute quality and what styles we think are good are in the eye of the beholder.

Aussie clones are really well roadtested before release and even more after...especially of the commonly planted varieties like cab!

I personally don't like GV93 as its a bit herbaceous (its widely planted in Vic....perhaps Herbaceous Cabs were seen as good at the time!)
I like some of the older SA clones...LC10 and SA 125 and SA 126.
I have all 3. Call me old fashioned if you like but I do love the style of cab we can make.
I think we may have an 05 Parolas cab in the making!

Cheers
Smithy

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:49 am

Whilst I love Big Shiraz when you get a good Cab its a wine worth remembering. Nothing beats a good Cab/Shiraz blend I beleive.

thelongroad · Post by **thelongroad** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:37 pm

I do recall when I first became interested in wine in the very late 80's. At that time I found myself mainly drinking cab sav's described as (and on the whole) tasting, herbaceous. i never found myself enamoured with the OTT capsicum/green type characters... but a degree of herbaceousness sat fine with me.

It was a style that I liked at the time but as I tasted more stuff I guess I was exposed more and more to (predominantly) shiraz - and in particular to riper, gutsier, heavier, blockbusters.

It makes sense that our palates go through evolution and change along the way right?

For me, I still really enjoy bigger thumping styles, but recently I have been enjoying some more "delicate" reds, for their great aromas and their finesse.

I guess I either go for variety in my drinking - or I'm indecisive? Either way, it's a lot of fun working it out!

Cheers

John

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:37 pm

Anonymous wrote:Whilst I love Big Shiraz when you get a good Cab its a wine worth remembering. Nothing beats a good Cab/Shiraz blend I beleive.

Why ruin a good Cab by blending it with Shiraz? Merlot makes a much better Cab blending component I believe.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:14 pm

Im not a massive fan of Merlot personally,even blended like this. There are only a couple of Magarets that i dont mind using such a blend.

I just love powerfull Shiraz/Cab blends from Rod & Spur through to the best wine Ive ever had Bin 90A. Maybe its a SA thing?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:25 pm

Let's face it, australian shiraz is a lot better quality, in general, than australian merlot. If you are going to blend cabernet with anything, shiraz makes more sense here. Shiraz in Australia (not quite true in France) can play essentially the same role as merlot i.e. it is ripe, fleshy, fills out the mid palate etc. Australian merlot usually doesn't bring much to the table (such logic doesn't stop australian winemakers from blending sub-standard viognier with good quality shiraz, but that is another issue)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:34 pm

707 takes an early lead

707 · Post by **707** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:49 am

smithy wrote:8)

Steve
I think you have to take such work with a grain ( or more) of salt.
If the French and Italians undertook the study maybe they had a percieved interest in what the outcome was.
At best they would have been looking..............

.......... I think we may have an 05 Parolas cab in the making!

Cheers
Smithy

Andrew, always cautious about statements like that, it will be interesting to see what these "superior" clones produce in the next few years.

Loved those 04 Parolas at CD, got a case each of the Durif and Shiraz tucked away in the cellar. Thought I'd give them five years before I look again, about right timing in your opinion?

707 · Post by **707** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:54 am

Anonymous wrote: Why ruin a good Cab by blending it with Shiraz? Merlot makes a much better Cab blending component I believe.

There are some great wines made by blending Siraz and Cabernet, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts ?

What about wines like Majella Maleea, Yalumba Signature, Kaesler WOMS? all great wines that as single varieties may not have scaled those heights. The handful of Penfolds Special Bins I've had have been stunning, better than Grange or 707 IMO.

There's also alot of great wines that may have components of Shiraz or Cabernet that aren't mentioned on the label too! Just because it says Shiraz doesn't mean it's 100%.

smithy · Post by **smithy** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:15 am

Steve
Sounds about right.
Cheers

smithy

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:37 pm

Anonymous wrote:If you are going to blend cabernet with anything, shiraz makes more sense here.

It doesn't HAVE to have something blended with it though. I don't feel that Shiraz really works all that well with Cabernet. Cabernet shouldn't be peppery like a Shiraz. Just like Shiraz shouldn't smell of apricots from blending with Viognier.

If you add a (good quality) Merlot to a Cabernet though, it really does create a wine that's greater than the sum of the individual parts, as it does with Cabernet Franc too. There's obviously good reason why the French blend these varieties.

707 wrote:What about wines like Majella Maleea....

I prefer the standard Cabernet.

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:21 pm

Anonymous wrote:
Cabernet shouldn't be peppery like a Shiraz.

I had a 97 Jacaranda Ridge on Saturday that was peppery and it was just fine. FWIW, many warm climate Shiraz and Cabernet can both be blackberry dominant.

GrahamB · Post by **GrahamB** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:30 pm

TORB wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Cabernet shouldn't be peppery like a Shiraz.

I had a 97 Jacaranda Ridge on Saturday that was peppery and it was just fine. FWIW, many warm climate Shiraz and Cabernet can both be blackberry dominant.

Ric

I tried the 2000 Jacaranda Ridge at the Coonawarra Road Show. I pointed John Pollard towards it and the expression on his face told me that he either liked it or the blonde walking behind goosed him. I would love some of this when it is released in 06.

Graham

Graham

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:06 pm

I thought the 99 Jacaranda Ridge was very good value a few weeks back and intend on getting a 6 pack. It seems a very consistantly good wine. Has anyone had the 98 which gets great reviews? I could never find any and might have to look at auction.

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:20 pm

Anonymous wrote: Has anyone had the 98 which gets great reviews? I could never find any and might have to look at auction.

Yep, its a belter but i don't have a TN.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:44 pm

I did search your site and could not find anything. Thanks for the help. If you have any when would you anticiapate trying your first?

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:56 pm

I won't be sacrificing my first for at least a couple of years. FWIW, Oliver says 2010-18+ so it should be long lived, I had 2008-15 in my database.

707 · Post by **707** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:15 pm

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had the 98 which gets great reviews? I could never find any and might have to look at auction.

It's a belter, great Cabernet, great Coonawarra. It's on tasting at the Cabernet Celebration weekend in October in Coonawarra. They frequently have the tasting wines on sale at very good prices. We've availed ourselves of their offers on Jacaranda and St.Hugo for the past three years.

marsalla · Post by **marsalla** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:14 pm

I would say that the Europeans are way out in front in clonal research, the clonal selection available is staggering, across all varieties. Doesnt mean they are all good.

For what its worth merlot and pinot clones are a lot better in Europe, cab looks about equal and we have syrah/shiraz hands down.

There is a appears to be a lot more faith put in the fact that if you select the right clone, then it will automatically produce good wine in Europe, I think it has to do with the whole terroir thing. Its also a way of disassociating yourself away from the fact you are responsible for producing the quality

cheers
Sean

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