Two recent experiences returning corked bottles of wine show that sometimes consumers can still be at the losing end of the deal.
Case one - a bottle of 1995 Eileen Hardy (JWT winner) which was returned to my mate Tom, at the local bottle shop. Normally in this was situation, he gives me a credit towards whatever I what to buy, and we both thought that this would be a case in the situation. However, today I received a phone call saying that when he returned to the wine to HardyÂ’s; instead of giving him a credit, they gave him a bottle of 2000 Eileen as a replacement.
Now what a great deal that is; you lose five-year cellaring, and they replace what was one of the best wines of the vintage with a wine that is completely different in style from a crappy vintage. After speaking to Tom, he'll be giving the 2000 back to his Hardy rep and telling him the customer refuses the replacement.
Case 2 - a bottle of 1991 Orlando Lawson which was horribly corked. The customer service line was advised on the 9th of May and finally got around to replacing it on the 22nd of June, 6 1/2 weeks later and once again, finish up with what could arguably be described as inferior wine.
Whilst these companies may be legally doing the right thing, the customer still winds up being the loser due to those bloody tree bark plugs.
Just Lucky I Guess!
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Pana
Torb,
How much museum stock can a winery really keep?
I actually feel sorry for the smaller wineries, who in IMO in most cases go out of their way to accomodate. I have had excellent experiences from Tahbilk, Jasper Hill, Noon, Zema and Dalwhinnie, but can not say the same about Southcorp and Berringer Blass.
Great Customer Service creates a loyalty that surpasses good vinatges and high ratings.
How much museum stock can a winery really keep?
I actually feel sorry for the smaller wineries, who in IMO in most cases go out of their way to accomodate. I have had excellent experiences from Tahbilk, Jasper Hill, Noon, Zema and Dalwhinnie, but can not say the same about Southcorp and Berringer Blass.
Great Customer Service creates a loyalty that surpasses good vinatges and high ratings.
Pana,
For obvious reasons, not many companies keep large quantities of museum stocks, and when you do get a replacement with an older vintage, it's always very much appreciated.
I agree, some wineries well and truly go out of their way to keep their customers satisfied and go the extra mile to do so. Tahbilk, Noons, Petaluma, and Wirra Wirra are a few that come to my mind.
There are a couple of points in my original post. The first is keeping the customer waiting for 6 1/2 weeks is not exactly a terrific strategy and almost standard for Orlando. Secondly, if I didn't have such a good relationship with my make Tom at the Moss Vale Hotel, I would have wound up waiting about two months for the Eileen Hardy replacement.
The second point is, but when the customer has invested years waiting for the wine to reach its peak, and the wines were from good vintages, a simple replacement of the current vintage, especially when the replacement is from a crappy vintage, does not make for a very happy customer.
Let's face it, if they are replacing a bottle of 2004 $10 rougher red, it's not a big deal. However, when you are talking about the companies most prestige label, and the purchasers have gone to the trouble of cellaring them, the chances are you are dealing with customers that spend a lot of money on the produces most profitable wines; the producers, in these two situations, are not exactly going out of their way to improve customer relations.
For obvious reasons, not many companies keep large quantities of museum stocks, and when you do get a replacement with an older vintage, it's always very much appreciated.
I agree, some wineries well and truly go out of their way to keep their customers satisfied and go the extra mile to do so. Tahbilk, Noons, Petaluma, and Wirra Wirra are a few that come to my mind.
There are a couple of points in my original post. The first is keeping the customer waiting for 6 1/2 weeks is not exactly a terrific strategy and almost standard for Orlando. Secondly, if I didn't have such a good relationship with my make Tom at the Moss Vale Hotel, I would have wound up waiting about two months for the Eileen Hardy replacement.
The second point is, but when the customer has invested years waiting for the wine to reach its peak, and the wines were from good vintages, a simple replacement of the current vintage, especially when the replacement is from a crappy vintage, does not make for a very happy customer.
Let's face it, if they are replacing a bottle of 2004 $10 rougher red, it's not a big deal. However, when you are talking about the companies most prestige label, and the purchasers have gone to the trouble of cellaring them, the chances are you are dealing with customers that spend a lot of money on the produces most profitable wines; the producers, in these two situations, are not exactly going out of their way to improve customer relations.
Pana wrote:Torb,
How much museum stock can a winery really keep?
I actually feel sorry for the smaller wineries, who in IMO in most cases go out of their way to accomodate. I have had excellent experiences from Tahbilk, Jasper Hill, Noon, Zema and Dalwhinnie, but can not say the same about Southcorp and Berringer Blass.
Great Customer Service creates a loyalty that surpasses good vinatges and high ratings.
*** I've found Pikes' accomodations to be similarly excellent. I recently complained about Brett levels in a case of their '98 Shiraz that I bought at auction. They asked me to send a single bottle for analysis. I did, and they agreed with my prognosis. They asked me to send back the rest of the wine, and if replacing it with the 2002 vintage would be allright (I got the impression that I could've said no, and got some museum stock, but figured that 2002 was a pretty safe year). And they're refunding my shipping costs. They were very friendly.
I am often discussing a corked wine I have just opened with the winery it came from..
In most cases a corked/oxidised wine is replaced by the winery with the current vintage, which I have come to accept.
Recently I rang Maglieri about an oxidised 98 Steve Maglieri Shiraz.
After being told I would be rung back twice, I started to get a bit annoyed, and finally did get a call back, and they would send me a replacement. I finally received 2 bottles of 93 Standard Shiraz. Hardly a reasonable deal, and it took about 4 weeks.
On the other hand Charlie Melton always add an extra bottle, but I do return the crook wines to them.
It took 2 phone calls recently to Haselgrove for a corked 98 H Shiraz. I received an 02 H Shiraz, which I was happy about.
Im sure its as much as a problem for the wineries, as us drinkers.
If I get something reasonable as a replacement I am happy. The crook wines is always available if they want it sent.
Bruce
In most cases a corked/oxidised wine is replaced by the winery with the current vintage, which I have come to accept.
Recently I rang Maglieri about an oxidised 98 Steve Maglieri Shiraz.
After being told I would be rung back twice, I started to get a bit annoyed, and finally did get a call back, and they would send me a replacement. I finally received 2 bottles of 93 Standard Shiraz. Hardly a reasonable deal, and it took about 4 weeks.
On the other hand Charlie Melton always add an extra bottle, but I do return the crook wines to them.
It took 2 phone calls recently to Haselgrove for a corked 98 H Shiraz. I received an 02 H Shiraz, which I was happy about.
Im sure its as much as a problem for the wineries, as us drinkers.
If I get something reasonable as a replacement I am happy. The crook wines is always available if they want it sent.
Bruce
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Gianna..
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Mike Hawkins
- Posts: 2748
- Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:39 am
Ric,
Agree with your sentiments here. Southcorp are completely hopeless in this regard.
Case 1 - 1990 St Henri returned as corked (which they agreed with after analysis) and replaced with the 2000 - a wine so far inferior to the 1990 its not funny. No consideration given to market value, age etc - one is worth twice the other at market.
Case 2 - 1991 Wynns Centenary Release Cab Shiraz - corked and replaced with 2 bottles of the 2001 Thomas Hyland (I think it was the cab, but I ended up palming them off on friends who dont care what they drink !). Are they kidding ? I complained but it got nowhere.
Anyway, while I'm on the Southcorp subject I'll post another rant.
Cheers
Mike
Agree with your sentiments here. Southcorp are completely hopeless in this regard.
Case 1 - 1990 St Henri returned as corked (which they agreed with after analysis) and replaced with the 2000 - a wine so far inferior to the 1990 its not funny. No consideration given to market value, age etc - one is worth twice the other at market.
Case 2 - 1991 Wynns Centenary Release Cab Shiraz - corked and replaced with 2 bottles of the 2001 Thomas Hyland (I think it was the cab, but I ended up palming them off on friends who dont care what they drink !). Are they kidding ? I complained but it got nowhere.
Anyway, while I'm on the Southcorp subject I'll post another rant.
Cheers
Mike
Gianna,
Cork is is caused by TCA or triclorinasole. It (normally) comes from a cork that has the substance in/on it when the wine is bottled. TCA can do anything from muting the flavour slightly to totally stripping it. It also can smell like wet cardboard or hessian.
Oxidised wine is normally caused by the cork too. Basicially a defective cork, normally over time, lets air into the bottle slowly.
Cork is is caused by TCA or triclorinasole. It (normally) comes from a cork that has the substance in/on it when the wine is bottled. TCA can do anything from muting the flavour slightly to totally stripping it. It also can smell like wet cardboard or hessian.
Oxidised wine is normally caused by the cork too. Basicially a defective cork, normally over time, lets air into the bottle slowly.
Mike Hawkins wrote:Case 2 - 1991 Wynns Centenary Release Cab Shiraz - corked and replaced with 2 bottles of the 2001 Thomas Hyland (I think it was the cab, but I ended up palming them off on friends who dont care what they drink !). Are they kidding ? I complained but it got nowhere.
Mike
Thats a great way to look after a customer and keep them loyal. Replace a wine that cost A$45 on release that has been lovingly cellared for 10 years with two bottles of vin ordinare that costs about A$15.
If they tried pulling that in Oz they would be up infront of Dept of Fair Trading.-
action2096
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:00 am
- Location: Sydney - Australia
Know this is going to sound like a really stupid question but i'm going to ask it anyway... 
If you do come across a corked/tainted wine from an older vintage do you simply contact the winery explain the situation and send back the original for a replacement ?
I've done this a few times with new purchases but thats simply a case of going back to the retailer with a copy of the reciept and away you go.
Surely a winery can simply claim that the older wine hasn't be stored properly, request copies of original purchase receipts etc. Are they legally bound to provide a replacement or is it more a case of good customer service??
I don't really have many older wines but i've had a couple of 99s that were corked recently and have tipped them down the sink thinking it was just my bad luck..
Cheers
Chris
If you do come across a corked/tainted wine from an older vintage do you simply contact the winery explain the situation and send back the original for a replacement ?
I've done this a few times with new purchases but thats simply a case of going back to the retailer with a copy of the reciept and away you go.
Surely a winery can simply claim that the older wine hasn't be stored properly, request copies of original purchase receipts etc. Are they legally bound to provide a replacement or is it more a case of good customer service??
I don't really have many older wines but i've had a couple of 99s that were corked recently and have tipped them down the sink thinking it was just my bad luck..
Cheers
Chris
Chris,
TCA-related cork taint is a manufacturing problem, it is in the cork/wine when it is sold, it is not something that develops through bad storage, therefore the wine was faulty when sold and (as provided in the TPA) should be replaced with the same wine or equivalent value that is satisfactory to you (not the winery). (Premature development/oxidation may sometimes be due to poor storage as well as cork problems and brett may possibly be exacerbated by wines getting too warm for a period.)
If you are polite, explain the problem reasonably succinctly and have most of the wine in the original bottle and cork ready to send back if they ask for it, most wineries will quickly come up with an adequate replacement for quite old wines. Those that don't get lots of free bad publicity on the forums and generally come around to fulfil their legal obligations.
Often the wineries don't even ask for the corked wine to be sent back, if you can tell them the batch number from the bottle and sometimes the corks have identifying codes as well they are often happy enough. If they do want it back they should pay the cost, some will send a pre-paide consignment note etc. or promise to refund the cost or send a bonus bottle. With claims of brett taint they will often want to test the wine to be sure.
Do a bit of a search here and on the other forum and you will see numerous threads that have more information and legal references.
Remember, it's not your fault a wine is corked and you are entitled to adequate compensation/replacement.
TCA-related cork taint is a manufacturing problem, it is in the cork/wine when it is sold, it is not something that develops through bad storage, therefore the wine was faulty when sold and (as provided in the TPA) should be replaced with the same wine or equivalent value that is satisfactory to you (not the winery). (Premature development/oxidation may sometimes be due to poor storage as well as cork problems and brett may possibly be exacerbated by wines getting too warm for a period.)
If you are polite, explain the problem reasonably succinctly and have most of the wine in the original bottle and cork ready to send back if they ask for it, most wineries will quickly come up with an adequate replacement for quite old wines. Those that don't get lots of free bad publicity on the forums and generally come around to fulfil their legal obligations.
Often the wineries don't even ask for the corked wine to be sent back, if you can tell them the batch number from the bottle and sometimes the corks have identifying codes as well they are often happy enough. If they do want it back they should pay the cost, some will send a pre-paide consignment note etc. or promise to refund the cost or send a bonus bottle. With claims of brett taint they will often want to test the wine to be sure.
Do a bit of a search here and on the other forum and you will see numerous threads that have more information and legal references.
Remember, it's not your fault a wine is corked and you are entitled to adequate compensation/replacement.
Cheers
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
Brian
Life's too short to drink white wine and red wine is better for you too! :-)
It may be who I generally deal with but I rarely have problems with getting corked bottles replaced.
With older wines you have to accept that you may get a current vintage, particularly from your retailer. I find that most acceptable. The retailers I deal with don't ask for receipts (who has them anyway after months or years) but accept that you bought it from them if you appear genuine. Sometimes you may have to wait for a replacement if they don't have the current vintage in stock.
It's surprising how often wineries will replace with the same vintage, obviously depends on stock of course. Just recently Langmeil replaced a 1998 Freedom with another 1998 as did Sid Kidman in Coonawarra with a 1998.
With older wines you have to accept that you may get a current vintage, particularly from your retailer. I find that most acceptable. The retailers I deal with don't ask for receipts (who has them anyway after months or years) but accept that you bought it from them if you appear genuine. Sometimes you may have to wait for a replacement if they don't have the current vintage in stock.
It's surprising how often wineries will replace with the same vintage, obviously depends on stock of course. Just recently Langmeil replaced a 1998 Freedom with another 1998 as did Sid Kidman in Coonawarra with a 1998.
Cheers - Steve
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
Brucer wrote:I am often discussing a corked wine I have just opened with the winery it came from..
In most cases a corked/oxidised wine is replaced by the winery with the current vintage, which I have come to accept.
Recently I rang Maglieri about an oxidised 98 Steve Maglieri Shiraz.
After being told I would be rung back twice, I started to get a bit annoyed, and finally did get a call back, and they would send me a replacement. I finally received 2 bottles of 93 Standard Shiraz. Hardly a reasonable deal, and it took about 4 weeks.
On the other hand Charlie Melton always add an extra bottle, but I do return the crook wines to them.
It took 2 phone calls recently to Haselgrove for a corked 98 H Shiraz. I received an 02 H Shiraz, which I was happy about.
Im sure its as much as a problem for the wineries, as us drinkers.
If I get something reasonable as a replacement I am happy. The crook wines is always available if they want it sent.
Bruce
Interesting that you're happy with this replacement. The 98 H would have retailed for about $50-60 or something. The 02 H retailed for under $20 and is no longer their flagship wine.
Kieran
"In the wine of life, some of us are destined to be cork sniffers." - Dilbert