Penfolds 2002 389

[graham]

Are all the current rave reviews warranted for the 2002 389
It seems over the last 3 years they continually say one of the best vintages ever and I now find myself becoming confused

[Gavin Trott]

Are all the current rave reviews warranted for the 2002 389
It seems over the last 3 years they continually say one of the best vintages ever and I now find myself becoming confused

Hello

I have talked to a number of knowledgable consumers recently all of whom have said it is a terrific wine and great return to form for the 389.

It seems to be a very good wine.

As regards value for money at $35+, that's for each consumer to judge of course.

[Frederik]

The 2001 was certainly released with lots of hype about the "best vintage since 1998" which was probably true but it implies it was somewhere near as good as 1998 which is obviously not true.

It's called spin. Marketers will always find something good to say about everything they are trying to sell even if it is drawing a long bow.

They were hardly gonna say fair enough our last 2 were crap but this one's drinkable but we recommend you don't buy any and save your money to buy the 2002's in a years time.

If I was a profitable medium sized wine company I would vary my prices according to vintage. Not easy to do if you are close to the line but if you had the luxury of being wealthy I would have for example done this:

Penfolds Bin 389.

1996 $50
1997 $25
1998 $45
1999 $20
2000 $20
2001 $25
2002 $35

I'd imagine that would inspire a lot of customer loyalty. I may be wrong.

[Guest]

Isn't that the kind of approach they use in Bordeaux, great vintages price goes up, lesser vintages back down again to encourage people to buy?

[Guest]

Yeah...in a perfect world the Grange 2000 will retail for not more than $100. The only way I see it, those who are buying are the W-Wankers who got a vertical to fill

[GraemeG]

I've tasted it twice (wine store, ISO glass, hardly in depth analysis) and courtesy of a corked older vintage (1994) and Southcorp's Customer Service hotline, am now the owner of one bottle.

I wasn't that impressed - at least not $35 worth. Yeah, it's better than 99, 00, 01, but... so were a lot of wines!

It's all of 14.5% by the label, and I think that's a lot of heat for a moderately structured wine to carry. Pass. At $22 I might buy. Not $35. No way.

cheers,
Graeme

[n4sir]

I've tasted it twice (wine store, ISO glass, hardly in depth analysis) and courtesy of a corked older vintage (1994) and Southcorp's Customer Service hotline, am now the owner of one bottle.

I wasn't that impressed - at least not $35 worth. Yeah, it's better than 99, 00, 01, but... so were a lot of wines!

It's all of 14.5% by the label, and I think that's a lot of heat for a moderately structured wine to carry. Pass. At $22 I might buy. Not $35. No way.

cheers,
Graeme

I first tried it last Thursday night, and like you Grahame I thought it was oaky and hot as hell showing all of that 14.5% in the mid-palate hole.

At the Penfolds Masterclass Saturday it was much better, with powerful blackberry/blueberry fruit interplaying with toffee/butterscotch oak and some aniseed; far more balanced and resolved and not hot this time, quite possibly from double decanting. It was tasted next to the 1998 which I'd still say is a much better wine.

Like the rest of the 2002 Bin range my thought was I'd like to see it in another 6-12 months time when (hopefully) the rough edges are ironed out.

Cheers
Ian

[TORB]

One thing that you guys mentioned made me wonder, what temperature was the wine served at? Even if it is slightly too warm, it will highten the seeming effect of alcoholic heat.

[n4sir]

Both times I've tried it has been at (air-conditioned) room temperature.

The first tasting was straight from the bottle, and while at one stage the palate was seemingly about to come together, it turned back to its rebellious state soon after.

The second was (I think) double-decanted and left to breathe half an hour before serving.

I got the feeling at these tastings that breathing was more of a factor of my impressions than serving temperature.

Cheers
Ian

[graham]

So what is the right temp for a wine I live in Brisbane where you'd drink nothing at room temp ,at least not until the 2nd bottle

[707]

I tend to drink them straight out of the cellar which is 12 to 18 degrees depending on time of year.

In warmer weather I frequently put bottles in the fridge for 30-40 minutes to make sure it's cooler than needed at opening. Easy to warm wine up in the glass but you can't readily cool it down.

[Alan Rath]

At the Penfolds Masterclass Saturday it was much better, with powerful blackberry/blueberry fruit interplaying with toffee/butterscotch oak and some aniseed; far more balanced and resolved and not hot this time, quite possibly from double decanting.

This thread got me fired up to try a bottle, so I stopped by the local shop on my way home from work and grabbed one (sorry to add fuel to the fire, but US$19, about AUS$24 at the moment). Ian's description is just about perfect for the wine I'm drinking, which has been in my glass about an hour now. I can sense a bit of heat, but not objectionable, and I don't really pick up any flavors I can directly attribute to oak. For me, it is an atypical 389, I can't remember a young one with this amount of anise. It actually puts me in mind a bit of the 2002 Kay's Hillside, though not quite the depth. Both are tighter than a drum right now.

For the money, I think I'll be stocking up on half a case or so for consumption in 6-10+ years, this is definitely a wine for the long haul.

Regards,
Alan

[GrahamB]

I tend to drink them straight out of the cellar which is 12 to 18 degrees depending on time of year.

In warmer weather I frequently put bottles in the fridge for 30-40 minutes to make sure it's cooler than needed at opening. Easy to warm wine up in the glass but you can't readily cool it down.

Using this method, how many bottles does it take so that you are unable get out of the cellar?

Graham

[Gianna..]

I review this forum basically everyday and other than Robert Parker (when people get fired up) I have not seen so much written about a particular topic.

2002 BIN 389 -

Good QPR ?
A Classic ?
A different style ?
Southcorp profit machine ?

Argh! who cares...!

So little time and so many other great wines to try.

Give me Rockford, St Peter's, Gladstone's, Stonewell, Cullen, Moss Wood et al and whether they are 5 or 10 dollars more expensive, once again,
who cares.... these wines are worth it.

389 is, was and always will be, just a good quaffer.

[707]

Graham B, I don't drink them IN the cellar, that would be fatal, I wouldn't get back up the stairs! I usually knock off the full bottle if I'm in the mood.

Gianna, I'm with you, so much frenzied opinion about the Penfolds which seems so wasted when you actually try the wines and think to yourself, yep it's wine! The days when Penfolds were the pinnacle of winemaking in this country have long gone. There's a squillion new exciting producers now weighing in now unlike the heady days of the 80s for Penfolds. I'm over it!

[Alan Rath]

Gianna, I'm with you, so much frenzied opinion about the Penfolds which seems so wasted when you actually try the wines and think to yourself, yep it's wine! The days when Penfolds were the pinnacle of winemaking in this country have long gone. There's a squillion new exciting producers now weighing in now unlike the heady days of the 80s for Penfolds. I'm over it!

Yikes, we're just having a friendly conversation about a wine that has been around a fair time, and has often been a respected mid-range "standard". I'm certainly not in a frenzy, I bought a single bottle of the 389 to try, and spent 2 minutes reporting on it. FWIW, every wine Gianna mentioned is 2 to 4 times as expensive as the 389 (at least here in the States). Frankly, I consider the 389 to be damn good QPR in comparison, particularly in 2002. Now, I know that pricing structure is very different down there, but I can only work within the limits of my market.

Regards,
Alan

[Guest]

They are about that much dearer here too.Even if price doesnt matter to an individual it does to a market.Best part about 389 is its readily available unlike alot of fancied wines from smaller wineries.

[707]

Wasn't suggested you were in a frenzy Alan, but alot of the Joe Public are.

Hey, even I drove out of my way to try them on release, I'd like to think it was just curiosity although I was in some way hoping they were going to have some wow factor. I think they're well made wines, pricing is ok but I doubt I'll buy much.

As for Gianna's alternatives, I think he was painting with a broad brush rather than doing direct comparisons. I'm about to put the Bin range under the blind test microscope to see how they compare to a group of similarly priced peers.

[Alan Rath]

Wasn't suggested you were in a frenzy Alan, but alot of the Joe Public are.

Sorry, I think I came across a bit strong in my response. In all honesty, the 389 is about the only Penfolds wine I try to keep up with, and perhaps the 707 if I can find it at a reasonable price. Having now tried it (assuming a representative bottle), I personally think it deserves a bit of hype, at least for its price. Just on guy's opinion Will keep an eye out for your blind tasting results.

Regards,
Alan

[KMP]

I'm about to put the Bin range under the blind test microscope to see how they compare to a group of similarly priced peers.

Steve:

Like to hear about the results. I've just bought a second bottle of 389 to see how consistent it is as there does seem to be some question. As Alan says it is fair value but I doubt that I will be putting more than a few bottles away.

Mike

[Alan Rath]

I've just bought a second bottle of 389 to see how consistent it is as there does seem to be some question.

Good point, Mike. I often wonder how large production wines (such as 389, or Latour for that matter!) can possibly be made consistent across the entire production. If I have it right, 389 has a production on the order of 30,000 cases. Some quick math gives a total wine volume of 270 million ml, which means if you were to blend it all before bottling you'd need a tank roughly 6.5 meters on a side (if it were a cube). That's a big tank! Do they actually do that? or do they blend in batches somehow?

I think I'll go back to the store I just bought the single from yesterday, and buy what I want, pretty much guaranteeing that I've got bottles not only from the same blending lot, but from the same point in the bottling process. A bit anal, but what the heck

Cheers,
Alan

[Guest]

Not the least bit anal Alan, that's smart thinking because enormous blends like this can't be completely homogenous, there must be a little variation. By my rough reconning, 30,000 cases is about 900 barrels, alot of potential for variation there!

It has been evident in the past to the extent that different tasters appear to be trying completely different wines, it's always put down to batching.

Small makers don't have the same problem with alot less barrels making up their wine and it gets into one tank.

An unlogged in 707

[Chuck]

Hi all,

Room temperature is a European term and so usually means roughly between 15% - 18%. As per 707 30 - 40 minutes in the fridge in summer reduces the hot alcohol hit. Particularly relevent for '02 wines but don't get me started.

Chuck

[Attila]

I've been following the Bin 389 releases for a while. The 2002 is worth investing into as I found it excellent. I tasted it twice on release. In comparison to the 1998 it has better structure and balance, also I found it more exciting. Of the price-value, you can find it for AU $33 and I think it is a good wine for that. Approachable, richly fruity with excellent backbone, I think it's lovely. I found it best of the line up although at AU $20 I ordered the Bin 128 and Bin 28 as well. The 2001,2000 looked pretty average for me, the 2000 vintage bordering on below average so the 2002 really shines in comparison.
Cheers,
Attila

[campbell]

And putting all this into perspective:

last night I opened a bottle of 2001 Paul Jaboulet Aine Crozes Hermitage, which cost me about 40 bucks australian. I bought it because the retailer told me it was really good. I said: but aren't Jaboulet totally out of form? And he said: yes, but not this wine. It's lovely. So here I go: a great Rhone vintage. A renowned maker. Bought on recommendation ...

.. and it was god-awful. Oh, OK, maybe it wasn't that bad - but put it this way, I tipped three-quarts of it down the sink. Weak fruit, orchestrated acidity, overbearing VA and while obviously rhone in its flavour profile, real complexity was lacking. I thought to myself: if I had a choice between this and 389, at the same price, I would choose 389 a million times over.

40 bucks australian for the Jaboulet might seem high: but that's the going rate here.

Campbell.

[Guest]

Hi all,

Room temperature is a European term and so usually means roughly between 15% - 18%. As per 707 30 - 40 minutes in the fridge in summer reduces the hot alcohol hit. Particularly relevent for '02 wines but don't get me started.

Chuck

From dim memories of my university Chemistry Lab days, "room temperature" was 22C +/- 1C.

Look here if you are bored:
http://www.answers.com/topic/room-temperature

[Alan Rath]

40 bucks australian for the Jaboulet might seem high: but that's the going rate here.

Nothing but sympathy from up here. That's a US$10-14 bottle, say AUS$15 at the current exchange rate. Someone is making some nice pocket change on this.

Regards,
Alan