How are auction houses grading screw caps?

[Alex F]

I bid and won two bottles of the same screw-capped wine. When they arrived, one had two small dints at the top of the cap. To my understanding this is close to where the inner-liner is. The other had a fairly large crease on the capsule below the screw cap threads. A bit disturbing as apparently these wines are "from original box".

I queried why these were not picked up and marked on the listing. I received a reply along the lines of: "We believe that the 2 small indentations to the top of the capsule and the minor pressed indentation to the sleeve of the capsule didn’t constitute an attribute".

Two questions. Firstly, am I right to be concerned that this auction house is not grading screw caps appropriately? Second, how are auction houses treating screw caps? It seems like perhaps this may be a neglected area. I for one am careful not to cellar wines that have indentations at the top of the cap.

Here are the original listing attributes.
[img]https://ukrpag.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mqx93Tprb ... pmode=none[/img]

Picture of indentation:

[img]https://ukriag.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mGrSiG0SK ... pmode=none[/img]

Picture of crease:

[img]https://uurqag.sn.files.1drv.com/y4m8G_3LnhV ... pmode=none[/img]

[cuttlefish]

Yeah....hmmmm....personally I would not worry with the damage shown. I think it would be unlikely to have breached the seal. I've held wines with worse dings in the cap than that, and they were fine.
But hey, you never know...

[kenzo]

Wickman auctions certainly calls out any damage to the screwcaps and provides close-up photos of them - that together with the comments on provenance where possible, make me more confident in using their services.

[Polymer]

I haven't seen much in the way of grading screwcaps out there. There is often some dings simply because of all the extra transport. The dings are your screwcap are definitely not a great place but I have not seen any of this type of damage compromise a wine although I'm sure it does happen.

The Wickmans seems to do the best as far as checking condition...everyone else is a far second....

[Alex F]

Yeah....hmmmm....personally I would not worry with the damage shown. I think it would be unlikely to have breached the seal. I've held wines with worse dings in the cap than that, and they were fine.
But hey, you never know...

Fingers crossed but I've already been disappointed once with another wine from this producer with a ding in the cap!

I haven't seen much in the way of grading screwcaps out there. There is often some dings simply because of all the extra transport.

Yet for wines under cork there are descriptions such as "scuffed capsule"... It just seems strange that these imperfections that are easily picked up by inspecting the top of the bottle are not marked in any way on the auction catalog.

I agree that dings can happen (I am not sure the shown damage can happen while the wine is being transported in its box)... but most of my screw caps are free of damage. What does it mean for 2 out of 2 bottles to be showing damage to the capsule? Bad handling at the winery bottling line?

[Polymer]

Yeah....hmmmm....personally I would not worry with the damage shown. I think it would be unlikely to have breached the seal. I've held wines with worse dings in the cap than that, and they were fine.
But hey, you never know...

Fingers crossed but I've already been disappointed once with another wine from this producer with a ding in the cap!

I haven't seen much in the way of grading screwcaps out there. There is often some dings simply because of all the extra transport.

Yet for wines under cork there are descriptions such as "scuffed capsule"... It just seems strange that these imperfections that are easily picked up by inspecting the top of the bottle are not marked in any way on the auction catalog.

I agree that dings can happen (I am not sure the shown damage can happen while the wine is being transported in its box)... but most of my screw caps are free of damage. What does it mean for 2 out of 2 bottles to be showing damage to the capsule? Bad handling at the winery bottling line?

Just some rough handling by different people...maybe something was place on the box they were in..could happen anywhere in the chain...with auctions the bottles were probably brought in with other stuff..they've been moved around..sorted...you end up banging into stuff..etc...they've probably been handled by the original owner several times in fact...

But I wouldn't worry about it, the chances of it being problematic are really really slim...Amongst the users here the have been thousands and thousands of wines opened up under screwcap and you basically never hear of a problem they're incredibly rare or when it is obvious there has been catastrophic damage...

[Chuck]

I sent an unopened 6 pack of Lindeman's 2012 St George to Langtons and 2 bottles were rejected with damaged screwcaps. They were returned and had dents in the screwcaps much worse than Alex's as per photo above. No idea how this happened. Tried one bottle and it was fine so put the other away.

[ticklenow1]

Screwcaps do ding really easily in wine fridges. Especially when Burgundy bottles and Bordeaux bottles are all mixed in together. I have dinged quite a few but never had a problem with them. I have had a few come straight from wineries with tiny marks or paint scrapes as well, but never had an issue.

Cheers
Ian

[I Love Shiraz]

If I was a betting man I would say this is Langtons. I say this based on my own bad experience with them several years ago.

[Ozzie W]

I bought some wine directly from a very reputable and high profile winery a few years ago. Half the bottles had dented screwcaps. Moreover, the bottles were packed in really thin cardboard and the top of the screwcaps were hard against the cardboard. There were some scuff marks on the top of the screwcaps from transportation as well. I sent back the damaged bottles. The replacements were still sent in an inappropriately thin cardboard box and the screwcap tops were scuffed once again. Said winery has since gone broke.

Normally I wouldn't bother about minor dents to screwcaps as I don't believe it'll compromise the seal, but these were $100+ bottles that I'll be cellaring for 20+ years and I didn't want to take the risk.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Normally I wouldn't bother about minor dents to screwcaps as I don't believe it'll compromise the seal, but these were $100+ bottles that I'll be cellaring for 20+ years and I didn't want to take the risk.

Should have been under cork, no worries then.

[Alex F]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I guess my point is two-fold. First, the winery should be taking all steps it can to get their screwcapped bottles to the consumer in pristine condition (especially if you are ordering a six-pack). Stories like Ozzie W's and Chuck's are very disturbing. Second, auction houses should be grading screw caps just like they do capsules and labels. Labels are already an existing mechanism by which the consumer is given a choice on whether they are willing to pay for a product with imperfections.

Normally I wouldn't bother about minor dents to screwcaps as I don't believe it'll compromise the seal, but these were $100+ bottles that I'll be cellaring for 20+ years and I didn't want to take the risk.

These bottles are not inexpensive and I was planning to cellar them for at least 10 years.

I sent an unopened 6 pack of Lindeman's 2012 St George to Langtons and 2 bottles were rejected with damaged screwcaps. They were returned and had dents in the screwcaps much worse than Alex's as per photo above. No idea how this happened. Tried one bottle and it was fine so put the other away.

I am surprised that Langton's sent the wine back instead of marking the lot with 'dented screwcaps'.

If I was a betting man I would say this is Langtons. I say this based on my own bad experience with them several years ago.

It is not Langton's.

[Chuck]

rs.

I sent an unopened 6 pack of Lindeman's 2012 St George to Langtons and 2 bottles were rejected with damaged screwcaps. They were returned and had dents in the screwcaps much worse than Alex's as per photo above. No idea how this happened. Tried one bottle and it was fine so put the other away.

I am surprised that Langton's sent the wine back instead of marking the lot with 'dented screwcaps'.

Initially Langtons probably assumed the wine was spoiled and asked whether I would like the wine disposed of. I accepted their alternative of returning them to me for a shipping fee of $10 which I thought was reasonable. The $10 fee is a fixed cost for up to 12 bottles.