Not corked, but... cork-y??

[Nick Wine Guy]

I opened a bottle of 2014 Clos des Jacobins Saint-Emilion Grand Cru Classe and was dissapointed but wanted to run the flavour profile by you.

First, the cork was quite crumbly, especially for such a young wine, so I had to use my Durand. Secondly, the flavour had this distinct woody flavour to it I can only say tasted cork-y. It didn't taste what I feel I understand corked wine to taste like, if that should be mouldy or wet newspaper foul like. It got incrementally better as it warmed up in a decanter from 13C wine fridge, but not any fruitier. A few days later I finished it and didn't have the woody flavour but also no fruitiness.

Cellartracker says drinking window is 2019-2033, so could I have had it too early or in a dumb phase? Is anyone familiar with this flavour? Is it a Bordeaux thing? Or was the cork maybe imposing a flavour and the wine faulty? For $75, pretty disappointing!

[Waiters Friend]

Could be corked. A corked wine can be "stripped" without necessarily showing much of the wet cardboard character. If you're expecting a reasonable amount of fruit, in a wine that you know, and it's young (2014 is not old) and no fruit is evident, then yes, you have a problem. Can you return it?

[Wizz]

That could be one of those insidious cases of mild TCA that just knocks down the fruit without imparting a flavour of its own.

There have been times I've smelled things like hessian or damp timber, but the fruit is still present. In both cases these blow off in time, which doesnt sound like your bottle,

[Mahmoud Ali]

Hi Nick,

First off, for such a young wine the cork shouldn't have been crumbly unless it had been badly stored, perhaps upright and in a dry environment. Secondly, as a young wine it ought to get "better" with airing so that is good, but to have no fruit, even if dark and underlying is odd. Admittedly the vintage is not the best but is is decent enough and yours is a Grand Cru Classe. I have a 2014 Bordeaux from the Haut Medoc that is a only a second wine and I think its a great little wine with good potential.

I agree with our fellow formites from both ends of the country that there is something wrong with the wine. Australian retailers are usually very good with returns on corked wine so I would give it go.

Cheers .................... Mahmoud.

[Polymer]

I don't think anything is wrong w/ the wine....

Young Bordeaux can sometimes have little to no fruit showing when young....The woody flavors could easily be oak...cedar...it probably sticks out more because of the structure and lack of fruit...

Given that you opened it at 13 degrees...and it got better, it sounds like the wine was fine...

A corked wine would not have been any better...if anything you will be more exposed to the TCA and it should get worse....

As WF said, if you know the wine and it is definitely not in line with previous bottles you've had in the past, then yes, something is likely wrong with it. But I don't think anything you described was necessarily out of profile and the crumbly cork wouldn't indicate anything like TCA...they're completely different issues...

Oxidation would've been different..heat would've been different...I don't think the cork condition would have made an impact at this point...maybe later it would've...

[Nick Wine Guy]

In terms of returns, I bought it from The Wine Society/Wine Collective while they still had a storefront in Sydney and rang them up. They said their return policy is normally 90 days and I bought it a year ago... Anyways, we agreed I would get $30 credit next time I buy something online.

Either way I would have had only an empty bottle to show.... No way to prove anything. What's your general success rate wirh returning wine you feel is faulty and has it ever worked with an empty bottle?

[Mahmoud Ali]

Thats not too shabby an outcome for an empty bottle, over the telephone, and one year later.

My strike rate for corked wines is quite low to begin with and most of what I drink are older, cellared wine and if any of them are corked I likely wouldn't have or find the receipt. The last badly corked/spoiled wine I had was a 1996 Wynn's Black Label. The store is still operating but it has gone through two if not three ownership change. How, without a receipt, would they know I bought it from their location, and, if they don't carry the wine, that the previous owners did. They also wouldn't know what I paid for it. It would take real chutzpah to even ask.

About asking for a refund with an empty bottle I was going to say no but, on reflection, I remember some years ago buying a pair of 2005 Chablis that was on sale. Weeks later I tried a bottle and I felt it wasn't quite right. Some days later I called to see if I could get a refund. The manager apologized and told me the receipt would be enough. Days went by and I happened to be on the street walking by the store. I didn't have the receipt on me nut popped in to say hello to the manager. She wasn't there but the clerk handed me a replacement bottle and said the manger told her it was for me. Basically, over the phone, no bottle, no receipt.

[Nick Wine Guy]

Yes, they don't know the bottle is empty, but regardless of the strong Aussie consumer laws, even Dan Murphy's was a struggle to return a bottle of Bin 389 in-store, so it's no guarantee a company will honour the law. I eventually got a refund when I called them.

This place definitely has some nice, hard to find Euro wines, so I'll see if they can throw in free shipping, too!

I feel the 90 day return policy is bogus if you're buying wines meant to be laid down for 10+ years...

[Mahmoud Ali]

I wouldn't call it bogus since it is a real policy and probably would be fine for the majority of customers. Isn't it said that 95% of all wine bought in Australian is consumed within 48 hours, or something to that effect?

[Polymer]

If you have the bottle with the corked wine and you bring it back...You probably have a good shot at getting a replacement in Australia...sometimes it can be difficult but especially for anything under 80 or so, it seems like it'll just happen. That also gives them a chance to assess the bottle themselves...

If you think the wine is bad, you shouldn't be drinking it...or surely not finishing the wine...

[Mahmoud Ali]

We can also return a corked bottle here in Canada, provided one has a receipt to show that it was indeed bought at the store and wine in the bottle to prove that it hasn't been drunk. Small mom and pop stores run by people who don't drink and are only in it because it is just another business may require convincing but the legislation is on the customer's side.

However it's an entirely a different matter turning up with no receipt and a bottle of wine 10 to 20 years later. Come to think of it, even with a receipt how is a retailer to know how a person stored it. Heat, light, and proximity to paint and cleaning fluids could also have affected the wine.

[JamieBahrain]

I send corked wine, including auction purchases, back to the producer and always get a refund. The big companies tend to test the wine and will confirm and replace with a current release. I've sent back corked wines 20+ years old and received refund- Wynns, Penfolds, Cullens, Henschke etc.

I prefer this approach. As annoying as returning the wine is, there have been a number of scams evidently. I can't recall the details of who told me but there was a list of scammers' emails doing the rounds at a few wineries.

Having corked Aussie wine abroad is problematic. I have come to arrangements with some producers as I'm not happy to carry the wine home as it takes the place of a Barolo in my luggage. It also may confuse customs/ quarantine as to why I don't want to pay duty on an opened TCA wine.

[Nick Wine Guy]

Jamie, so you just bypass where you bought it from and go straight to the producer? I assume it's always a nearly full bottle?

What do you do for Euro wines?

I do feel the fact I am dealing with a company that is part of Cracka Wines should offer a full refund, whether or not it was bought in a store they no longer operate.

[JamieBahrain]

Yes, it's not the retailer's fault.

I'm a firm believer in seeking refund for TCA wines. If you don't, like almost all of my international fine wine drinking friends, you are allowing the issue to persist as some producers will not realise they have an issue - nor pay for better technology. I've had many producers say its a rare occurrence, yet I'm returning 5% + off their wines!

Euro wines I'll return if I can. Hand carrying back to Piedmont say, is a twice annual event.