Grange - making the plunge

[Ian S]

One last question.... Older/finer wines like these - any reason they wouldn't be OK to last to the next day to drink? Or are they more fragile than standard $20 bottle stuff in terms of lasting once opened?

Hi Nick
There is much discussion on this and more than a few gadgets designed to help wines last once opened. Personally I recork and put in the fridge or at least somewhere cool. However inert gas preservation systems are used by some people (Coravin, Pungo, with others now joining in). They're seen as less aggressive in ripping away the subtle but volatile aromas when compared to the old 'vacuvin'. Some view them as ideal for allowing a fancy bottle to be enjoyed over 3-4 nights (spread over a month or more). Worth reading up if that thought really appeals.
Regards
Ian

[rens]

One last question.... Older/finer wines like these - any reason they wouldn't be OK to last to the next day to drink? Or are they more fragile than standard $20 bottle stuff in terms of lasting once opened?

Good bottles I double decant 12-24 hours before consuming. I had an '87 Grange a few years back. Decanted it and took a sip and it was not looking good. back into the bottle and taken to dinner 12 hours later. I took a back up bottle just in case. Pulled the cork out of the Grange and it was incredibly good. the 12 hours sorted it out and it was singing-like an angle riding a bike across your tongue!

[Nick Wine Guy]

Rens, damn, that is tricky to figure out! How long was it in the decenter for before you put it back in the bottle? And was your tasting once you poured it or after a while?

What age do you base your decanting ahead time on and do you always put back into the bottle?

[rens]

It was literally pore into the decanter, rinse the bottle, and back into the bottle. Then I tasted it. I tasted it again about 1 hour later and it was still no good.

This decanting system takes a bit of time to work out. The Grange was perfect for a 12 hour decant. We had a 2004 or 2005 Signature a year or so back at one of the Brisbane off lines and I decanted that one 24 hours before (Same system as the grange-took all of 5 minutes in total). It was the wine of the night.

As a guide (red wine):
Most Aussie wines that are over the $50 mark, and a decade or so old, I decant 24 hours before. At the 15 year mark, I give it 12 hours. at 20 or so years, only a few hours (2-6) or pop and pore-it can always sit in your glass for a while. Over $100 I do the same, but the 2nd window shifts from15 to 20 years and the the third window from 20 to about 25 years. You get the odd dud, but more often than not the wines get a fuller palate and some of the fruit comes back to the fore and the palate lengthens out very well.

[Nick Wine Guy]

Interesting approach. How strongly do you adhere to this approach and how often do you find you've overdone it?

I do wonder whether the rinsing out of the bottle aspect adds in extra bacteria that could possibly taint the wine?

[Mahmoud Ali]

I do wonder whether the rinsing out of the bottle aspect adds in extra bacteria that could possibly taint the wine?

You need to decant an older wine to remove the clear wine off the accumulated sediment at the bottom of the bottle. Hence the necessity of rinsing the bottle to remove the sediment. If you feel the necessity you could rinse the bottle with filtered water. On the other hand, a bottle of young wine without any sediment need not be rinsed.

Mahmoud.

[Ozzie W]

I do wonder whether the rinsing out of the bottle aspect adds in extra bacteria that could possibly taint the wine?

You need to decant an older wine to remove the clear wine off the accumulated sediment at the bottom of the bottle. Hence the necessity of rinsing the bottle to remove the sediment. If you feel the necessity you could rinse the bottle with filtered water. On the other hand, a bottle of young wine without any sediment need not be rinsed.

Mahmoud.

When double decanting, I've never had any issues rinsing bottles with Melbourne's tap water. After rinsing, I leave the bottles upside down for at least 10 minutes to drain as much water as possible. After this, I also rinse the bottle with a tiny amount of the decanted wine and discard. The bottle is then ready to refill with the decanted wine.

[rens]

Interesting approach. How strongly do you adhere to this approach and how often do you find you've overdone it?

I do wonder whether the rinsing out of the bottle aspect adds in extra bacteria that could possibly taint the wine?

Never had a problem rinsing the bottle. Just let it sit for a minute or so, give it a good flick to get any droplets out.

I only ever kill maybe one in fifty. With old wines that I have I regularly follow their progress on something like cellar tracker to give me a vibe. If I see the wine is right at the end of its cellar window and the latest notes say it fell away quickly, then I will pop and pore. If the notes say that it got better or indicate no change over the course of the bottle, then I have no problem double decanting and drinking in 12 hours.
For example, a 1996 bin 389 I would have no problem doing a 12 hour on. An 86 would be a pop and pore. Both arguably very good vintages, so I think I'm comparing apples with apples.

Now that I wrote that I went and had a read of cellar tracker for those wines. You do the same and you'll see the 1986 has not had many notes over the last 15 years, but those that are there read as though it is in it's twilight-'holding in there'. The 1996 reads like it is mature but plateaued well with some improvement possible.

[Mike Hawkins]

I’ve had two bottles of the 86 389 in the past few weeks Rens. 1 was getting to the end of the road, and the other had years of (excellent) life left...

[rens]

I’ve had two bottles of the 86 389 in the past few weeks Rens. 1 was getting to the end of the road, and the other had years of (excellent) life left...

Proof I guess that there are no good wines only good bottles and that my rule of thumb is exactly that-unscientific guess work, but a half educated guess.

[Nick Wine Guy]

Thanks, guys! I ended up getting a 91, 94, 96, 97. The last 3 have corks that are slightly "sunk in" while the 91 seems flush with the top, perhaps even a tiny bit bulging. Is that a problem?

[Mahmoud Ali]

The so called 'best years' are often not the best wines in my opinion, same goes for Bordeaux.

My sentiments as well.

Mahmoud.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Thanks, guys! I ended up getting a 91, 94, 96, 97. The last 3 have corks that are slightly "sunk in" while the 91 seems flush with the top, perhaps even a tiny bit bulging. Is that a problem?

I usually don't worry about corks that are slightly below rim level but I don't like corks that protrude. However in your case it seems that it is almost flush so I wouldn't worry too much.

Mahmoud.

[Nick Wine Guy]

Hopefully these photos give an idea. In the pic with two, the one on the left is the one in question. Any reason to think it's been exposed to excess heat or anything wrong while bottling? The red band around it is very tight.

Of my bottles with cork, only a few seem flush, the rest seem slightly sunk.

[George Krashos]

When my bottles were re-corked at the Penfolds Red Wine Clinic this year they were all corked below the bottle opening.

-- George Krashos

[TiggerK]

Looks within the norm to me, some corks go in more than others, some stick out a touch. Too much protrusion is a cause for concern, but that doesn't look too bad, ultimately there's only one way to find out!!! Just make sure you give them an hour or five in a decanter to sort themselves out, even with that extra bit of age, it's 98% of the time worth it.

[dave vino]

Whats the deal with them? How were you thinking of drinking them? As a vertical, or spread over a few different occasions as life dictates? (birthdays, anniversaries etc).

You probably need a good mate who is into wine to help out on the night, allay fears, make decisions etc, etc. Grange corks are notorious for being dried out, crumbly things. So having the right tools (Durand, strainer etc) and experience with older wines is a huge load off your mind. We can give you all the advice you want, but on the day you probably need someone to make the calls if you are not confident, worried about it.

But I will say, generally unless you are in the 40year+ with Grange they are generally robust wines that can take a bit of rough and tumble.