Speaking about Kalleske

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:05 pm

Hi Good Peoples,

I got an email today from Geoff who reads this forum and the Irregular Update. Geoff said he thought he remembered seeing a post that said that the Kalleske Shiraz was going to go to about $65 with the next vintage. By chance, Geoff ran into the distributor and asked him about it. He was told it would remain about the same. In some cases, distributors may not necessarily be the first to know what is happing with their products so I emailed Troy and he confirmed that the 04 vintage will have an RRP of $40 which is where it was meant to be this year.

BenK · Post by **BenK** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:57 pm

I spoke to Troy at wine Oz and the super premium Johann George (sp?) is going to be about $90.

Cheers
Kuff

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:44 pm

BenK wrote:I spoke to Troy at wine Oz and the super premium Johann George (sp?) is going to be about $90.

Cheers
Kuff

And will be released about March.
MM.

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:06 pm

Langton's has the 2002 shiraz for $90AUD and the 2003 for $80AUD (both 6 bottle cases). They also have an auction going with estimates on the 2002 of $60-75 and $50-70 on the 2003. Some of the '03s being signed by the winemaker!

I'll be interested to see what they bring as I just purchased a couple of lots from Wickman's that failed to sell in their most recent auction. At $80AUD/bottle I paid a lot more than some of you guys. But that works out to about $68USD/btl (that includes 10% buyers fee). Considering I paid $55USD (+ tax and shipping) for the 2002 when it was available over here, and I could be paying up to $100-150USD for the 2003 I figure I got a deal.

All I need to do now is find the $2K for the airfare to go pick 'em up! :shock:

Oh, wait. That's right, I'll be there next week. Hope the screwpull makes it through customs.

Mike

AJ · Post by AJ » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:37 pm

Greetings:

Based upon the current bids for the Kalleske's they're not going for much over release price, which is surprising given that over here in the states the lowest I've seen since the review was about $75 USD and expect that it will on average be closer to $100 USD.

Cheers,

Arvin

markg · Post by **markg** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:55 pm

AJ wrote:Greetings:

Based upon the current bids for the Kalleske's they're not going for much over release price, which is surprising given that over here in the states the lowest I've seen since the review was about $75 USD and expect that it will on average be closer to $100 USD.

Cheers,

Arvin

AJ,

Release price was about $42 AUD, sold at auction for $80AUD, double release.

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:25 am

AJ wrote:Greetings:

Based upon the current bids for the Kalleske's they're not going for much over release price, which is surprising given that over here in the states the lowest I've seen since the review was about $75 USD and expect that it will on average be closer to $100 USD.

Cheers,

Arvin

The Langton's auction still has three days to go before we see the final bids.

I don't watch the Aussie auction scene in detail but Mark Wickman's auction and the current Langton are two that have followed closely behind Parker's big scores for many Aussie wines. Mark has already indicated that many of the reserves set by his vendors were higher than buyers were willing to consider. I will be very interested to read his complete report of the auction. Hopefullly it will be posible to get some idea of how the Langton's auction goes.

I don't think that it is a big surprise to guess that something around $80AUD for the Kalleske shiraz will be top dollar. In the USA it will be a much different story. The explanation? Kalleske is great wine, but there is lots of great wine in Australia selling to a (relatively) small market. Additionally wine drinkers in Oz can pick and choose over a much greater range of wines. In the USA that market is many fold larger, just on the East Coast, and very affluent but forced to compete for more limited range of wines. $100USD/btl for wines that Parker has described as "there is nothing like these wines anywhere else in the world", is chicken feed for some of these folks. Its very clear who pays the $$ for the points that Parker bestows on Aussie wines. What remains to be seen is whether those wines will be allocated in greater amounts to the USA thereby limiting their availability in Australia. We would all be better served if a wider range of wines (the 85-90 pointers), many made in far greater amounts than wines like Kalleske, made their way to the USA.

Mike

707 · Post by **707** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:44 am

Already many wines that feature in US publications are not seen at all in Australia. Even the well connected and knowledgable here, when they read Parker's Australian edition, on every second page we're going "huh, what's this one".

I suppose the most classic shift in allocation between Aust and the overseas markets is Grange. The miniscule allocations to retailers here in Australia for the 1998 Grange and the bullshit Southcorp fed us here about it being made in much smaller quantities than previous vintages was completely disproved when overseas markets were awash with it.

So the reverse was created with our best known icon wine, it was easy to find overseas but almost impossible to get in Australia.

Make no mistake, rarity as well as quality pushes up the price of many of our wines. Oh, and lots of well heeled Americans drive the prices up.

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:07 am

707 wrote:Already many wines that feature in US publications are not seen at all in Australia. Even the well connected and knowledgable here, when they read Parker's Australian edition, on every second page we're going "huh, what's this one".

Steve: I'm going to throw #155 into my suitcase and maybe some of you guys at the SAUCE dinner can tick a few of these Aussie-origin, US-only wines off for me? I'd like to get more idea of what they are - and where they come from in terms of wineries.

707 wrote:I suppose the most classic shift in allocation between Aust and the overseas markets is Grange. The miniscule allocations to retailers here in Australia for the 1998 Grange and the bullshit Southcorp fed us here about it being made in much smaller quantities than previous vintages was completely disproved when overseas markets were awash with it.

So the reverse was created with our best known icon wine, it was easy to find overseas but almost impossible to get in Australia.

Make no mistake, rarity as well as quality pushes up the price of many of our wines. Oh, and lots of well heeled Americans drive the prices up.

Yep, the US market will absorb whatever you throw at it, at least at the moment. Grange allocation is interesting. It does affect retailers here. Some used to get all they wanted, now they have to fight for a few bottles. And this seems to be happening with more and more of the high flying wines, retailer allocations are geting smaller - at least here in San Diego.

Mike

707 · Post by **707** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:37 am

Happy to put a tick alongside the export only wines for you.

I had a couple of rippers a while back, Poonawatta 2002 and Hobbs 2001. Made me angry that here's another two new labels snaffled completely by the "Pirate" for the US.

Got us all in for dinner at 6-30pm on the 11th at The Sauce, a great restaurant that really caters well for wine enthusiasts.

Mark, where's the final numbers boy??

markg · Post by **markg** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:16 am

707 wrote:Happy to put a tick alongside the export only wines for you.

I had a couple of rippers a while back, Poonawatta 2002 and Hobbs 2001. Made me angry that here's another two new labels snaffled completely by the "Pirate" for the US.

Got us all in for dinner at 6-30pm on the 11th at The Sauce, a great restaurant that really caters well for wine enthusiasts.

Mark, where's the final numbers boy??

Yar,

Got to work on that today Steve... 6.30 ?? Change it to 6.00 please, Mike needs to leave early.

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:40 am

markg wrote: Mike needs to leave early.

We need to try to get to the B&Bs in Tanunda at a reasonable time so that we can get enough rest to face the first of 3-4 days of winery visits. We'd like to leave no later than 10pm. That means that someone (from my group) will have to remain sober! Should be interesting deciding that! I know my wife will be sober (or at least more sober than most), but then she has no desire to drive in Oz.

Mike

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:58 am

KMP wrote:
AJ wrote:Greetings:

Based upon the current bids for the Kalleske's they're not going for much over release price, which is surprising given that over here in the states the lowest I've seen since the review was about $75 USD and expect that it will on average be closer to $100 USD.

Cheers,

Arvin

The Langton's auction still has three days to go before we see the final bids.

I don't watch the Aussie auction scene in detail but Mark Wickman's auction and the current Langton are two that have followed closely behind Parker's big scores for many Aussie wines. Mark has already indicated that many of the reserves set by his vendors were higher than buyers were willing to consider. I will be very interested to read his complete report of the auction. Hopefullly it will be posible to get some idea of how the Langton's auction goes.

I don't think that it is a big surprise to guess that something around $80AUD for the Kalleske shiraz will be top dollar. In the USA it will be a much different story. The explanation? Kalleske is great wine, but there is lots of great wine in Australia selling to a (relatively) small market. Additionally wine drinkers in Oz can pick and choose over a much greater range of wines. In the USA that market is many fold larger, just on the East Coast, and very affluent but forced to compete for more limited range of wines. $100USD/btl for wines that Parker has described as "there is nothing like these wines anywhere else in the world", is chicken feed for some of these folks. Its very clear who pays the $$ for the points that Parker bestows on Aussie wines. What remains to be seen is whether those wines will be allocated in greater amounts to the USA thereby limiting their availability in Australia. We would all be better served if a wider range of wines (the 85-90 pointers), many made in far greater amounts than wines like Kalleske, made their way to the USA.

Mike

Just a little update on the Langton auction of Kalleske. The three 2002 shiraz lots went for $60-61AUD with one lot withdrawn. The seven 2003 shiraz lots went for $AUD48, 48, 51, 52 with three lots withdrawn. The steal of the auction was the 2002 grenache that went for $57AUD. While it would be interesting to know who paid those prices it does suggest that the feeding frenzy that exists in the USA for these wines does not yet exist in Australia. Although if you bought from cellar door (I believe $34/btl for the 2002) you did get a pretty good return.

Mike

707 · Post by **707** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:33 pm

Interesting that no US buyers snapped it all up at such a discount to what they're paying in the US.