"Grange is more the product of old vineyards and ultra-ripe Shiraz fruit made in a fashion by Max Schubert, and became a trademark of Penfolds, than it is of the places from whence it is derived", said Petaluma's Brian Croser speaking at the Wine Press Club Sydney, on the eve of Wine Australia 2004.
Croser pointed out, there was a whole generation of ultra-ripe Shiraz wines "riding the wave of high scores with the all-powerful Robert Parker who loves the ultra ripe wines of any part of the world". Croser added: "They are legitimate fine wine expressions, even though not terroir driven.''Croser called on the industry to recognise Australia's great terroir aspects, such as very old geology and soils, long intense sunshine hours and clean, dry air – "don't let the apologists claim those differences as disadvantages in the quest for the world's finest; they are an essential part of our uniqueness". MORE->
Its been my impression that the big push toward fruit forward wines was simply an attempt to Grange-ify Aussie wines; especially after Wine Spectator made it Wine of the Year in 1995. I wonder which Aussie winemakers will sit up and take notice of Croser? More importantly which ones will thumb their noses and argue that their premium wines do express terroir?
Mike
Grange - the Flawed Champion of Australian Wine
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George Krashos
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Terroir is such an interesting concept - especially when applied to Australian wines. There are wines that arguably show 'terroir' in Australia - Bass Phillip and Mount Mary spring to mind - but many companies and wineries are more concerned about creating a 'style' of wine rather than expressing terroir except in the broadest terms. Australian winemakers are notorious blenders although there is a more recent trend to vineyard specific wines (most likely kicked off by Clarendon Hills back a while ago ...). Not having the most brilliant palate in the world, I find it hard at times to separate regions in Australia, let alone picking up the difference between Barossa shiraz from Lyndoch compared to Barossa shiraz from Angaston.
Croser says: "recognise Australia's great terroir aspects, such as very old geology and soils, long intense sunshine hours and clean, dry air." Isn't that what winemakers are doing now?? People pride themselves on being able to pick a Petaluma Coonawarra from a Moss Wood cabernet, thereby proving that there is a difference which can only be explained by "very old geology and soils, long intense sunshine hours and clean, dry air." Sure, winemakers have a say in terms of wine style by what they do to their grapes and the fruit once it hits the winery - but is it any different in that "temple" to terroir, France?
Does Chateau Pavie 2000 taste like Chateau Pavie 1985? Does Grange 1998 taste like Grange 1983? I think commentators make it all too hard sometimes: the proof is in the drinking. If you have a taste and it has all the bells and whistles for you, who gives a rat's that it tastes different from how it tasted 20 years ago?! Or that Coonawarra cabernet isn't 'supposed' to taste like that. Good wine is where you find it and drink it. The more we intellectualise a very simple chemical process and the act of imbibing it, the further we get from actually enjoying the end product.
But then again, how much press attention is Croser going to get if he says: "There's lots of good wine in Australia suiting a broad range of likes and preferences and the wine enthusiast will always be able to find something they like from somewhere in Australia." Yep, not much press attention at all. And hey, he has to be into all this "terroir" stuff - his daughter's inlaws are French and in the Champagne business. It's always good to maintain family harmony.
-- George Krashos
Croser says: "recognise Australia's great terroir aspects, such as very old geology and soils, long intense sunshine hours and clean, dry air." Isn't that what winemakers are doing now?? People pride themselves on being able to pick a Petaluma Coonawarra from a Moss Wood cabernet, thereby proving that there is a difference which can only be explained by "very old geology and soils, long intense sunshine hours and clean, dry air." Sure, winemakers have a say in terms of wine style by what they do to their grapes and the fruit once it hits the winery - but is it any different in that "temple" to terroir, France?
Does Chateau Pavie 2000 taste like Chateau Pavie 1985? Does Grange 1998 taste like Grange 1983? I think commentators make it all too hard sometimes: the proof is in the drinking. If you have a taste and it has all the bells and whistles for you, who gives a rat's that it tastes different from how it tasted 20 years ago?! Or that Coonawarra cabernet isn't 'supposed' to taste like that. Good wine is where you find it and drink it. The more we intellectualise a very simple chemical process and the act of imbibing it, the further we get from actually enjoying the end product.
But then again, how much press attention is Croser going to get if he says: "There's lots of good wine in Australia suiting a broad range of likes and preferences and the wine enthusiast will always be able to find something they like from somewhere in Australia." Yep, not much press attention at all. And hey, he has to be into all this "terroir" stuff - his daughter's inlaws are French and in the Champagne business. It's always good to maintain family harmony.
-- George Krashos
If alot of our wines didn't display terrior then Options Nights would be a waste of time, we'd never get an option correct.
I think most serious Barossa Shiraz, Coonawarra Cabernet, Pyrenees etc have a certain unique thread that expresses their own geographic origins.
If Croser wants more specific site specific as in Greenock area versus Southern Barossa then he's pissing in the wind because that becomes so subtle it's just too hard to pick on a consistent basis. Once it gets to that level then individual viticulture, block aspect & soil and individual winemaking are more dominant.
If you want an example then look at the Greenock Creek Shiraz range. Each label which is sourced from seperate but adjacent blocks is different but each label has a consistent thread year on year. This is where the sub region is over ridden by the very localised factors.
I think most serious Barossa Shiraz, Coonawarra Cabernet, Pyrenees etc have a certain unique thread that expresses their own geographic origins.
If Croser wants more specific site specific as in Greenock area versus Southern Barossa then he's pissing in the wind because that becomes so subtle it's just too hard to pick on a consistent basis. Once it gets to that level then individual viticulture, block aspect & soil and individual winemaking are more dominant.
If you want an example then look at the Greenock Creek Shiraz range. Each label which is sourced from seperate but adjacent blocks is different but each label has a consistent thread year on year. This is where the sub region is over ridden by the very localised factors.
Cheers - Steve
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
Oh, and we make ultra ripe wines because WE CAN and most of the rest of the world wishes they could!
The best European vintages are the warmest aren't they?
Didn't a famous scribe say he didn't know why the Bordelais were so excited about the 82 vintage, they just looked more like good Californian Cabernet than usual.
Croser hs been stuck in cool areas all his life that's why he doesn't understand ultra ripe. I for one have never come to grips with his Coonawarra, never rates on my scale.
The best European vintages are the warmest aren't they?
Didn't a famous scribe say he didn't know why the Bordelais were so excited about the 82 vintage, they just looked more like good Californian Cabernet than usual.
Croser hs been stuck in cool areas all his life that's why he doesn't understand ultra ripe. I for one have never come to grips with his Coonawarra, never rates on my scale.
Cheers - Steve
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
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Guest
The point he is making is the bulk of Australian exports is at under $5p/l FOB and that price is dropping. If we don't do something to promote higher end products from various Australian 'Terroirs', we are going to be stuffed.....the majority of the wines overseas are single vineyard wines - and that single vineyard in South Eastern Australia...there really is no push on regionality...and that is going to stuff Australia up.
We are experts in flatland, irrigated, industrial viticulture and belting in end posts across the horizon, we do that well...we need to work on the other aspects....or Chile, Argentina, South-West France, Spain and the U.S. are going to take a huge chunk of market share. With overplanting and the wine surplus....we cannot afford that.
We are experts in flatland, irrigated, industrial viticulture and belting in end posts across the horizon, we do that well...we need to work on the other aspects....or Chile, Argentina, South-West France, Spain and the U.S. are going to take a huge chunk of market share. With overplanting and the wine surplus....we cannot afford that.
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Smithy
Grange Terroir and Brian Croser
Brian always speaks incredibly well. Whether you agree with his position is another matter. There has been heaps of criticism of the big red styles lately, some is justified as some wines are out of balance.,
The biggest critics of the style are usually those making wines the futhest from the mark. Grange always gets its detractors, mostly sour grapes from those envious of its stunning track record and prices. Is it worth it?
Absolutely--people pay that price for it! If they've put out a dud the market will punish them for it....that's supply and demand. Grange isn't the epitome of the big ripe style anyway...a big Grange like the 98 is still only 14.5%......a long way short of the megareds.
As far as terroir, its way more than house style. A simplified view is to look at dirt. Acording to Proffessor Peynard sands give perfumed styles with little tannin and lacking colour, clays give tannin ,colour but little nose and gravels abit of both extremes. Its more than that, as the exposed hill tops behave differently to the sheltered vineyard under the hills crest even if the dirt is the same, and as the label for D'Arenburgs Dead Arm states even the disease history effects the way the wines turn out.
Do the best of our little produces wines show Terroir....how can they not. Do Polish hill wines taste of the slate..Yep
Do Glenrowan wines have an inherent lolly sweetness...I think so
Cheers
Smithy
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KMP
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707 wrote:If a lot of our wines didn't display terrior then Options Nights would be a waste of time, we'd never get an option correct.
When I used to play this, years ago mind, it was multiple choice. There was always a winner. Wasn't always the person who knew the most or even what terroir is. Might have changed since.
Mike