TN: Domaine Jean Monnier et Fils Meursault Genevrieres 2011

[Waiters Friend]

This Premier Cru white Burgundy glows yellow in the glass.

The nose is complex with grapefruit, lemon blossom, lanolin / hand cream, grilled nuts and meal / warmed grains. The palate reflects the citrus on the nose, with lemon pith, zippy acid, more grapefruit, and a very slightly creamy texture. The citrus is offset by some savoury characters, and the finish is reasonably long.

I might be drinking this too early - I think it will improve with another 3-5 years or so. Still a very interesting wine now, though.

Cheers
Allan

[Ian S]

Drinking early? Almost certainly?
Stupid to do so? Far from it whilst premox remains a blight on the region.

[Polymer]

IMO, anything older than 11 has a risk of Premox...

With the absence of some obvious SO2 on the nose, I'd probably not wait for anything...

[Waiters Friend]

Oh dear. I don't have enough experience with White Burgundy (well, not as much as I might like ...). What's with the premox tales and why is white burgundy particularly targeted?

Is it just lower end, or are Premier Crus liable as well?

[Ian S]

There's a guy in the US that maintains an 'Oxidised White Burgundy' WIKI page (Don Cornwall) that will be useful to read. Not definitive %s of premox for each producer, but useful to give indications of which producers / wines have bigger problems than others. He holds regular white burgundy tastings to assess the different vintages.

Premier, Grand Cru, in the most prestigious appellations affected? Yes to all. Arguably the region that seems to often come out ok is the Macon, but that's quite possibly down to them being drunk relatively young normally (it's the only White Burg I buy at the moment).

Why White Burgundy in particular? Ah that's the question. It's been a 20 year problem, initially met with indifference/denial/silence by the producers, but over time it became more widely accepted. We still don't know the causes, but the variability points to cork being the variable, though few if any claim it to be the problem (bringing us neatly back to your question, as whilst there are problems elsewhere, these are not as widespread. It seems likely that something changed in vinification / cork treatment / viticulture plus warmer vintages. Quite potentially a combination of these).

Solutions most notably involve heavier doses of SO2 at bottling (hence Polymer's comment), plus some shifting to DIAM seals and even some to screwcap. Plenty of theories of what the causes are, but these two moves are the most sensible ones to start to limit the problem.

So that's about it for now. A blight on one of the world's great wine regions, and one I'd have great sympathy for their plight, were it not for the attitudes (especially in the first decade of the problem)

[Polymer]

You're seeing some big producers switch to Diams..but no idea if that is really going to make a difference...

It isn't like corks are of lesser quality now than they were before...but there is speculation it could be anything from the treatment of the corks to the lining of corks...Or it could have to do with the winemaking itself...or even a combination of things...

I will say, the two relatively old/good white Burgundy I've had under screwcap were not premoxed..they were also oddly clean....One was from Laroche and the other from Dublere...but that's really not a good sample size to arrive at any conclusions concerning closure...

I'd still say at this point, the producers that tend to add more SO2 are the "safer" ones although I don't know if I'd put my faith in any producers really....We had an evening somewhat recently with a premoxed PYCM and Roulot in the same night and these are two of the least likely producers with a Premox issue...Basically, none of the producers are safe..there are just safer (or worse) ones than others...

I'd be happy to see that Diam fixes this problem though..and at least we're starting to see them do something about it...I guess in another 5 or 6 years we will see if Diam has started to help...

And the Genevrieres sounds great!

[Waiters Friend]

And the Genevrieres sounds great!

Yep. Looking forward to trying it again when it grows up

Thanks to you and Ian S for your comments on the premox issue. The question remains, however, why White Burgundy is so plagued with this problem (that I didn't know about)? If it is cork related, wouldn't every French wine (under cork, i.e. the majority) be affected?

Or is there a premox molecule that only attaches itself to Chardonnay?

Cheers
Allan

[Ian S]

Hi Allan
That is indeed one of the reasons that people look outside of cork for other reasons (though the variability really has to be cork related as no other explanation fits the varied performance from wines of the same case & cellaring). I saw some analysis that looked at the levels of SO2 not long after bottling, and despite receiving the same 'dose', the tested levels ranged from broadly what was put in, to none at all.

There are a number of variables that might explain why (mostly) just white Burg is affected - producers seeking more approachable / riper wines; winery treatment that affects the impact of SO2 dosage; style of pressing, etc. with plenty of candidates based on quite widespread 'modernisation' of production methods at the time. Plus white grapes are often more vulnerable to oxidation, and rather perversely, there are techniques to introduce oxygen into the winemaking that appear to mitigate the problem. Plenty to read up on, and I am not a winemaker nor an expert in processes, so best to read opinions from those that have a clue!

regards
Ian

[Polymer]

The question remains, however, why White Burgundy is so plagued with this problem (that I didn't know about)? If it is cork related, wouldn't every French wine (under cork, i.e. the majority) be affected?

They don't know what is causing it..which is why most of what we've talked about is just speculation on what people might think the problem could be..
closure, winemaking, combination of the two...

And the same question you asked has been asked...if it is cork why is it such a big problem in Burgundy? Some have said it is a problem everywhere it is just more obvious in Burgundy because you tend to age it..I don't believe that as there are areas that don't have this problem for white wines and you age them as well (German Riesling for example)....You might ask, if it is the winemaking why isn't it impacting all of the wines? vs. this very random manner it happens (You might have a case and only half the bottles are impacted).

Which is why a good number of people feel it might be multiple factors at hand...might be the winemaking has made the wines more susceptible to this type of problem if the closure is less than ideal...

Pulling from many people's experience...
Generally it is safe to drink white burgundy 5-6 years from vintage...
After that you risk getting either premoxed or advanced wines (To me it is the same problem). Advanced meaning the wine has gone darker and caramel like but not actually hit that sherry stage...The wine is undrinkable either way although some people are probably more ok with "advanced" wines..and of course there are different stages of that...
Some producers are better at avoiding premox than others...To me it seems like the more SO2 the better..but who knows..
Doesn't seem to have any relationship to any specific part of white Burgundy...so for example, Meursault doesn't seem to have more of a problem than Puligny...
Chablis is included in this.
Grand Crus are just as impacted as 1er and Village...or seem to be anyways...

You'll see it mentioned on here and other boards a lot...basically it has become a risk to buy White Burgundy with the intention to sell it...and why I don't think anyone I know is currently planning to buy a ton of it to age...it has simply become too risky..and unlike TCA, is a far trickier subject you end up raising with the retailer...