St Andrews Cabernet - $6 / bottle

[WAwineguy]

Coles is selling this home brand wine that apparently won double gold at the Melbourne International Wine Competition. It's apparently so good and cheap at $6 that it's pretty much sold out already!

http://www.afr.com/business/retail/fmcg ... 713-gxaaqt

What do you all reckon?

[TiggerK]

Subscriber only content so can't read it, but I got the jist on the news this AM.

What to say, haven't tried, it, sounds like it punches well above its weight and I think Cabernet can do that better than most grape varieties. People and the media just love these stories, no longer need to buy Bordeaux (like those snobby wine suckers), Koonunga Hill @ $14 or even that overpriced Yellow Label at $9 (50% more cost!) when you can get something just as good or better for $6!

[WAwineguy]

Or this....

http://www.whimn.com.au/live/food/a-6-b ... 730eca8aff

[phillisc]

Yes think this sort of thing is fantastic...yes there are probably many more misses than hits but equally the same for many over blown SA reds at the $100+ which many punters would scratch their heads at thinking simply not worth it...just like gee this was 5 bucks!!
I brought 2 dozen of the Coles big and bold 2015 Shiraz at a fiver each and put them in against 28, Shadrach and a few other $30 or so wines and it gave them a lovely touch up.
Cheers
Craig

[JamieBahrain]

Sorry if I offend anyone for not seeing a dollar value but I just see a shocking headache which only cheap Aussie wines seem to deliver so effectively. Maybe Coles is different.

Before the vinous socialists rise up, I do enjoy really cheap wine. Dolcetto and Barbera for $8 a bottle but you can drink a bottle or more and feel fine.

[Ian S]

Interesting naming - the same as the Taylors / Wakefield brand. Surprised they would allow this considering the effect it would have on their 'premium' wines.

[phillisc]

Interesting naming - the same as the Taylors / Wakefield brand. Surprised they would allow this considering the effect it would have on their 'premium' wines.

Ian
I think it would be the other way, I am sure that Taylor's at Auburn would have had dozens of phone calls and plenty of inquiries from those visiting the CD
As for the St Andrews range better value to be had elsewhere. I used to buy buckets of the white label Shiraz and cab 20 years ago but feel with plethora of labels now they have lost their way a bit.
Cheers
Craig

[Mahmoud Ali]

Interesting naming - the same as the Taylors / Wakefield brand. Surprised they would allow this considering the effect it would have on their 'premium' wines.

My thoughts as well.

Mahmoud.

[phillisc]

Sorry if I offend anyone for not seeing a dollar value but I just see a shocking headache which only cheap Aussie wines seem to deliver so effectively. Maybe Coles is different.

Before the vinous socialists rise up, I do enjoy really cheap wine. Dolcetto and Barbera for $8 a bottle but you can drink a bottle or more and feel fine.

Not at all, and thanks for the support. The 2015 Big and Bold Shiraz was a fluke and wished I had brought more.
Its a game of numbers and agree at the sub $10 market its certainly one for the battery acid aficionados, saw dust lovers or those who like the fruit as green as Kermit.
The parallel for me is wines in the hundred plus range are just as rare pleasures...in terms of thinking that there are for me, a heap of must-haves for the cellar. Not so at either price point.
Take you view on cheap Italians, in my 2 ten day trips to Italy, we purchased two bottles everyday that were sub 10 euro from wines shops, supermarkets etc. I was really surprised at how many were actually very good....and no headaches!
Cheers
Craig

[JamieBahrain]

My point was Phil ,I could drink cheap and non-commercial Italian wine til the cows came home. No headaches and feeling like crap the next day. Usually warmed by the fact too, you are supporting a small grower.

Cheap mass produced Australian wine is a different matter. I cringed when I read this. I didn't see value,just a headache . I could me wrong .

From a wine lovers point of view as well, what is Coles doing for the industry? Genuine question . I'm more than a little negative toward the big guys , suspecting it isn't all that positive .

[phillisc]

My point was Phil ,I could drink cheap and non-commercial Italian wine til the cows came home. No headaches and feeling like crap the next day. Usually warmed by the fact too, you are supporting a small grower.

Cheap mass produced Australian wine is a different matter. I cringed when I read this. I didn't see value,just a headache . I could me wrong .

From a wine lovers point of view as well, what is Coles doing for the industry? Genuine question . I'm more than a little negative toward the big guys , suspecting it isn't all that positive .

Jamie, that wasn't my point about cheap aussie plonk...generally 99% of it never reaches my lips particularly coles and woolies massed produced swill. My point actually is that there is on the very rare occasion a wine in this bracket that punches well above its weight in terms of quality.

What coles and woolies is doing is offering a plethora of wines to a market that enjoys 2 buck chuck, less informed punters (I dare say) who don't give a damn about either quality or the headache! they just want something cheap...and for the most part its pretty nasty.
The premise for me here is nothing different to what you talk about, a ring in, in a large line up that should not rightly be there through virtue of origin or price, that smacks the more esteemed competition out of the ball park
Cheers
Craig

[JamieBahrain]

Fair enough. I just get scowled at when back In Oz and I buy the wrong milk as there's all sorts of drama going on with the supermarket players. Are they doing similar in the wine game?

Be nice if they were adding value to the industry.

[Michael McNally]

Fair enough. I just get scowled at when back In Oz and I buy the wrong milk as there's all sorts of drama going on with the supermarket players. Are they doing similar in the wine game?

Be nice if they were adding value to the industry.

Yes, they are doing the same thing with wine as they have done with milk. They have their own brands which look like ordinary winery labels (they must have bought a pile of mailing addresses in the various regions). It looks like wine and tastes like wine and is branded like wine, but its the same as the Woolies/Coles Milk - $2 for 2L. The more of this wine sold, the less money their is to buy wine from independent producers who find a niche (Mt Tambourine Organic Milk) to survive in. Even the niches are becoming crowded with Coles/Woolie own brands.

Now the bigger independent wineries are producing for Coles/for Woolies brands with their label on them, but something added such as "Bongbong Road". So you have the Medium Sized Producer "Bongbong Road" Shiraz, which sells for $14 when the regular Medium Sized Producer McLaren Vale Shiraz sells for $20. Your MSPs need to do this as the majority of wine is sold through Coles (First Choice/Vintage Cellars/Liquorland) and Woolies (Dans/BWS). They simply have to be part of that market, but they have to undercut themselves to do it.

Coles and Woolies have no interest in the industry other than the profit they can make. They are focusing on the low end (at the moment) because that is where the bulk of sales are. They are massive corporations so we shouldn't be surprised that their primary interest is profit and this is a profitable model for them in the short to medium term.

Cheers

Michael

[Sigmamupi]

If you track down a bottle of this wine (as I did for a friend who wanted to try it), it is simply labelled as "Wine of Australia" and "Produced for James Busby Fine Wines" so who knows where its grown or who makes it. Typical anonymous supermarket dross and in this case, rather grandiosely labelled as "Imperial Reserve".

[Luke W]

Bloody good drop - I was determined to not like it (being the cynic that I am) and was quite impressed. Bought 3 dozen of em to impress wine snobs like myself who want to see what the fuss is all about! Now to find an Aldi and grab a few of the $21 single malts....

[Michael McNally]

At least we know what your masked wine at the next offline is......

Cheers

Michael

[Luke W]

At least we know what your masked wine at the next offline is......

Cheers

Michael

But would u pick it?

[Michael McNally]

At least we know what your masked wine at the next offline is......

Cheers

Michael

But would u pick it?

Indubitably.

(Actually, I am not sure I would, but I like the word indubitably)

Now I am expecting the double bluff.....

Cheers

Michael

[Luke W]

At least we know what your masked wine at the next offline is......

Cheers

Michael

But would u pick it?

Indubitably.

(Actually, I am not sure I would, but I like the word indubitably)

Now I am expecting the double bluff.....

Cheers

Michael

We'll see - however knowing u I suspect u'll get to know the wine prior to the next event!

[Luke W]

I've just drunk a bottle of this with Janine and have changed my mind. It's a clean, dry cabernet with drying tannins and some reasonably good dark fruit, nicely balanced and a pleasant but somewhat boring palate. If you can imagine a wine maker striving not to make mistakes rather than to make something memorable, you'll get the picture of what I'm trying to describe. I think it's boring and uninteresting and very much more suited to the winedrinker who doesn't really seek complexity. I think a few licorice chips would improve it out of sight!
I'll give away some and keep some and maybe through a few aniseed jelly beans in some and see if I can make it more interesting. After all the bones are reasonably good.

[Ian S]

Maybe the tiny but incredibly concentrated Calabrian licorice sweets might be better - a single one, little bigger than a grain of rice should be enough to be noticeable - and avoids sugaring up the wine.

[sjw_11]

I've just drunk a bottle of this with Janine and have changed my mind. It's a clean, dry cabernet with drying tannins and some reasonably good dark fruit, nicely balanced and a pleasant but somewhat boring palate. If you can imagine a wine maker striving not to make mistakes rather than to make something memorable, you'll get the picture of what I'm trying to describe. I think it's boring and uninteresting and very much more suited to the winedrinker who doesn't really seek complexity. I think a few licorice chips would improve it out of sight!
I'll give away some and keep some and maybe through a few aniseed jelly beans in some and see if I can make it more interesting. After all the bones are reasonably good.

So you tried this twice and liked it once and not the second bottle, is that right?

With a wine like, probably produced in unimaginably large quantities, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the bottles might be from entirely different batches which might explain the difference....

[Luke W]

I've just drunk a bottle of this with Janine and have changed my mind. It's a clean, dry cabernet with drying tannins and some reasonably good dark fruit, nicely balanced and a pleasant but somewhat boring palate. If you can imagine a wine maker striving not to make mistakes rather than to make something memorable, you'll get the picture of what I'm trying to describe. I think it's boring and uninteresting and very much more suited to the winedrinker who doesn't really seek complexity. I think a few licorice chips would improve it out of sight!
I'll give away some and keep some and maybe through a few aniseed jelly beans in some and see if I can make it more interesting. After all the bones are reasonably good.

So you tried this twice and liked it once and not the second bottle, is that right?

With a wine like, probably produced in unimaginably large quantities, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the bottles might be from entirely different batches which might explain the difference....

I think the difference was the first time I was just tasting and had an inch in the bottom of the glass. When you have to wade through a whole bottle the tediousness of the wine becomes more apparent. I think it was essentially the same wine but you just get palate fatigue from the boredom!

[JamieBahrain]

As I get older, I think the quaffer is an understated experience. I don't think a supermarket chain could deliver what I'm after. Luke's last note presents the wine as a drab experience and I'd be plugging in the kettle and having a well earned AFD.

I think the Italians and Spanish taught me the joys of quaffing for say under $10 Aussie. But the wine still has a sense of place and freshness, sure it's not cerebral but you feel good drinking the wine. I think of got the hang of it now, with a few glasses of a $8 barbera on a weeknight delivering more joy than an expensive bottle.


In Australia, there must be something that delivers sound, counter-cerebral experience when a fine wine experience isn't on the cards? Mike Press with a bit of bottle age? Rick Burge sends out a few bargain offers? Producers well worth supporting too.

[phillisc]

Yes purchased 3, 2 dozen lots of Ricks cheapies, one was a 2010 Shiraz release for $8 a bottle...lovely lovely drinking.
One to put in a decanter to start mess'n with people's heads

Cheers
Craig

[Ozzie W]

I think the Italians and Spanish taught me the joys of quaffing for say under $10 Aussie. But the wine still has a sense of place and freshness, sure it's not cerebral but you feel good drinking the wine. I think of got the hang of it now, with a few glasses of a $8 barbera on a weeknight delivering more joy than an expensive bottle.

+1

And no headache or other ill effects afterwards either. There are theories that cheaper wines tend to have higher levels of congeners and histamines and oak alternatives, but I'm not sure why Aussie wines would be more prone than Old World wines.

[JamieBahrain]

Thanks Ozzie, I forgot to mention the hang over.

I chatted to Olek Bondonio about this. I have had a few invitations to "share" a bottle with him after his work day back at Verduno and we will plow through a bottle of Barbera as you would a few beers. Perfect quaffing.

Olek made wine in Australia and mentioned the sulphur levels massive compared to say his Barbera which has a high natural acidity and little required intervention.

[cuttlefish]

As I get older, I think the quaffer is an understated experience. I don't think a supermarket chain could deliver what I'm after. Luke's last note presents the wine as a drab experience and I'd be plugging in the kettle and having a well earned AFD.

I think the Italians and Spanish taught me the joys of quaffing for say under $10 Aussie. But the wine still has a sense of place and freshness, sure it's not cerebral but you feel good drinking the wine. I think of got the hang of it now, with a few glasses of a $8 barbera on a weeknight delivering more joy than an expensive bottle.


In Australia, there must be something that delivers sound, counter-cerebral experience when a fine wine experience isn't on the cards? Mike Press with a bit of bottle age? Rick Burge sends out a few bargain offers? Producers well worth supporting too.

Wait, lemme think

[cuttlefish]

As I get older, I think the quaffer is an understated experience. I don't think a supermarket chain could deliver what I'm after. Luke's last note presents the wine as a drab experience and I'd be plugging in the kettle and having a well earned AFD.

I think the Italians and Spanish taught me the joys of quaffing for say under $10 Aussie. But the wine still has a sense of place and freshness, sure it's not cerebral but you feel good drinking the wine. I think of got the hang of it now, with a few glasses of a $8 barbera on a weeknight delivering more joy than an expensive bottle.


In Australia, there must be something that delivers sound, counter-cerebral experience when a fine wine experience isn't on the cards? Mike Press with a bit of bottle age? Rick Burge sends out a few bargain offers? Producers well worth supporting too.

Wait, lemme think

[Luke W]

Amazing how much a cap full (around 1-2 teaspoons) of good ouzo changes this wine!