Old bottles with weeping corks

[Ozzie W]

I often see wines advertised at auction that disclose that the cork has signs of weeping. I'm trying to understand why anyone would purchase an old bottle where there's a very high chance of it being stuffed. These wines seem to sell for about a 25% discount compared with a bottle in better condition, but that can still be a lot of money. Why would anyone pay $300 for an old bottle of "weeping" Grange that's almost certainly stuffed?

[Chris H]

Ignorance about efects of leaking corks on wine perhaps ?

Hopefully no-one devious enough to try to foist it upon unsuspecting Offline participants and get away with it ("pity about that, thanks for the effort anyway...) Always make sure everyone brings suitable backups

[JamieBahrain]

Yep never again........!

[Polymer]

I often see wines advertised at auction that disclose that the cork has signs of weeping. I'm trying to understand why anyone would purchase an old bottle where there's a very high chance of it being stuffed. These wines seem to sell for about a 25% discount compared with a bottle in better condition, but that can still be a lot of money. Why would anyone pay $300 for an old bottle of "weeping" Grange that's almost certainly stuffed?

I'd have a hard time buying Grange on Auction regardless...

My rules for auctions are:
No Penfolds , especially Grange..Exception to this is maybe St. Henri
No Big House Champagnes...

Fill levels are important. Weeping corks are no good.
Willing to concede a bit on fill based on age and discount level.

[deejay81]

What happens if you brought one of these weeping, bad condition bottle of Grange that you bought "cheaply" at auction to a Penfolds recorking clinic?

[dave vino]

I've had a few weeping bottles, and a few of them have been fine. 91 Wynns Cent. is one that comes to mind.

But yeah...you'd want to be fairly ambivalent about the potential if you knowingly buy or want to take a punt on one.

[Polymer]

What happens if you brought one of these weeping, bad condition bottle of Grange that you bought "cheaply" at auction to a Penfolds recorking clinic?

They'll check it for you....If it has TCA they'll replace it for you...but if it is just in bad nick then too bad...

They'll grade it and then recork it for you.

For those that pass they'll get a sticker saying so...for those that don't I think you also get a sticker saying so...

[brodie]

Hi Ozzie, last year I bought a few older (mid 90s) German Auslese bottles at auction. They were all weeping and had protruding corks. The wines had been overfilled and even after 20 years and the weeping had only about 5mm of air space between base of cork and the wine. The explanation was that the the overfilling caused both the cork protrudence and the weeping. The wines are lovely. I would guess this is a bit of a special case and otherwise I would NEVER buy such wines at auction. I inspected these bottles prior to acution btw.

Brodie

[rens]

As soon as I see weeping, I hit the next button. Perhaps if the Grange was $20-30 rather than $200-300, then I may take a punt.

[Matt@5453]

For what it is worth, some batches of screw cap are less than adequate and can be damaged in transit resulting in oxidized wines.

[Polymer]

For what it is worth, some batches of screw cap are less than adequate and can be damaged in transit resulting in oxidized wines.

It is possible..but I think most people have had fewer problems with screwcap...from what I can tell it takes a significant amount of damage in the right spots to cause it to lose integrity...

[Ozzie W]

Thanks for all the responses. Pretty much confirms what I was thinking. Buying an old bottle at auction is a bit like playing Russian Roulette, so I'll keep away from anything that increases the risk.

[WAwineguy]

Buying an old bottle at auction is a bit like playing Russian Roulette,

I watched The Deer Hunter again recently.....Gives you a timely reminder of how cheaply life is valued in some parts of the world

[Michael McNally]

Buying an old bottle at auction is a bit like playing Russian Roulette,

I watched The Deer Hunter again recently.....Gives you a timely reminder of how cheaply life is valued in some parts of the world

Are you referring to the Northern Territory?

[JamieBahrain]

Don't know what's worse, the Deer Hunter Russian Roulette scene or memories of living in Darwin where crime rates rampant and often covered up.
Awful place!

[JamieBahrain]

The old bottles I've bought from auction recently are incomparable to my own stock. Your getting a Jacob's Creek drinking experience which is a torture as you look at the label and have an expectation. It is shocking. Not a single success and this could be as I have a lot of experience with properly cellared wine.

[Ozzie W]

The old bottles I've bought from auction recently are incomparable to my own stock. Your getting a Jacob's Creek drinking experience which is a torture as you look at the label and have an expectation. It is shocking. Not a single success and this could be as I have a lot of experience with properly cellared wine.

I can certainly relate to this. Way too many of my recent auction purchases haven't performed as I expected them to. After reading tasting notes on CellarTracker, I feel like I'm drinking a completely different wine... the Jacob's Creek version as you so eloquently put it. And I know it's not just my palate, as I present these wines at offlines and everyone says something is not quite right.

This begs the question, is there some underlying issue with the provenance of wines being auctioned recently?

[Chris H]

It has always been a lottery Oz. There is a lot of ignorance and apathy about what constitutes proper cellaring, both privately and commercially, both here and overseas. The advent of commercially available climate controlled cellarage should improve the situation going forward, but it is still a lottery if you don't know the provenance. And notation of climate controlled cellar in an auction does not mean that is always how the wine has been stored.

[Chris H]

With Cellartracker I tend to take into account the country of residence of the note-writer. Many US drinkers like bigger, bolder flavours than say, English drinkers. Even Galloni doesn't seem to notice what to me is obvious oak too heavily applied in some of his Piedmont notes.

[Cloth Ears]

For what it is worth, some batches of screw cap are less than adequate and can be damaged in transit resulting in oxidized wines.

I've never had that experience with any non-cork enclosure. Even bottles with such minor damage to capsules that I've seen have not impacted the wine one iota. Essentially I've never had a screwcap that was past it or 'corked' in any other way.

As for bottles with corks, on the other hand...I run at roughly 8% for any bottle over 10 years old. And I'm currently 100% at Auswine offlines - so never again will I bring a bottle with a cork to an offline.

[Benchmark]

so never again will I bring a bottle with a cork to an offline.

That will be tough going at a Burgundy offline.

Might be a push even for some of the Cabernet offlines.

[Chris H]

If you open it at home to check for obvious TCA, then pop the cork back in you will be fine. Bringing a backup in any case is standard practise.

[Polymer]

With Cellartracker I tend to take into account the country of residence of the note-writer. Many US drinkers like bigger, bolder flavours than say, English drinkers. Even Galloni doesn't seem to notice what to me is obvious oak too heavily applied in some of his Piedmont notes.

This makes me giggle a little because I'd probably put Aussies in that same boat as US drinkers as a generic statement.....although CT is probably more popular in the US...

[JamieBahrain]

Beware of some of the wine investment funds going bust. Provenance is only as good as your last lot of summer logistics or the rumors up here are that some Asian schemes were charging professional cellaring yet storing in uncontrolled warehouses! Seen a number of utterly sodden corks from these funds that claimed perfect provenance. Fucking mugs!

[Matt@5453]

For what it is worth, some batches of screw cap are less than adequate and can be damaged in transit resulting in oxidized wines.

I've never had that experience with any non-cork enclosure. Even bottles with such minor damage to capsules that I've seen have not impacted the wine one iota. Essentially I've never had a screwcap that was past it or 'corked' in any other way.

As for bottles with corks, on the other hand...I run at roughly 8% for any bottle over 10 years old. And I'm currently 100% at Auswine offlines - so never again will I bring a bottle with a cork to an offline.

I am not saying its wide spread, but there are some screw caps that do not spin on properly, but visually look okay (very isolated batches).

[n4sir]

Beware of some of the wine investment funds going bust. Provenance is only as good as your last lot of summer logistics or the rumors up here are that some Asian schemes were charging professional cellaring yet storing in uncontrolled warehouses! Seen a number of utterly sodden corks from these funds that claimed perfect provenance. Fucking mugs!

Yep, I heard a whisper a few nights ago that wine from a failed investment fund was flooding into Australia from Asia and being sold at auction.

Auctions are always definitely a case of buyer beware, either look for lots where the provenance has been thoroughly researched and indentified/is available to be judged, or only consider wines at a massive discount to justify the risk.

My 2c,
Ian

[JamieBahrain]

Must be going cheap and clocking up huge losses! Why do people do it? Invest in Aussie wine? There are NO investment grade Aussie wines at retail?

Retail offers for older Mt Mary $100AUD in HKG! So retailer must be picking them up cheap? Some of the other wines I'm seeing it's madness to have invested in these? That said, beautiful wines if you snag the well cellared ones.

[Ozzie W]

How awesome would it be if you could simply look up the complete ownership history of a bottle, traceable all the way back to the original producer? Bring on blockchain!

[phillisc]

Must be going cheap and clocking up huge losses! Why do people do it? Invest in Aussie wine? There are NO investment grade Aussie wines at retail?

Retail offers for older Mt Mary $100AUD in HKG! So retailer must be picking them up cheap? Some of the other wines I'm seeing it's madness to have invested in these? That said, beautiful wines if you snag the well cellared ones.

Jamie I understand where you are coming from re claims masquerading that an old wine has perfect provenance when the evidence before you in the form of a weeping cork, dull colour suggests otherwise...
But what makes my blood boil more is the prices in your part of the world re premium wines such as Quintet.
I have a good run from 94-04 and then a couple of sporadic purchases. CD price is currently $120-130

So this means two things, as you have said cheap purchase price then on sell, or two, Joe public like me who does not have the cash these days to drop $1500 on a case is being completely shafted in the domestic scene. Of course people will say market forces, but it gives me the shits.

Cheers
Craig

[JamieBahrain]

Phil I just think there's a lake of premium wine and when a few funds go bust it's sold at a massive loss. Mt Mary will see some monies recovered but other stuff from these funds won't recoup a decade's worth of storage costs!

And your Mt Mary has about 50% tax in the price? So gets exported minus tax.