TNS: 3rd 2004 Club Dinner - "The Disaster"
TNS: 3rd 2004 Club Dinner - "The Disaster"
Hello All,
The third Club dinner of 2004 was held on Saturday, 7th August 2004. Unfortunately, this Club dinner will be remembered as “The DisasterÂâ€Â. I suspect the cool temperature of the dining room and the serving temperature of the wines played a significant part in the poor showing of some very "big" labels. Fortunately, the evening was “saved†by some less renowned wines.
Attendees were: Attila, David "The Grave Robber" Pearson, David Lole, TORB, Laszlo and Stephan. The evening was hosted by Attila this time.
Like all Club dinners, wines were served blind with spot-on and discussion ensuing before trivia and options are given until the wineÂ’s identity is known.
1) 1998 YALUMBA D Cuvée
Unfortunately the attendee who was to bring Champagne cancelled at the last minute, and due to terrible Saturday afternoon traffic on the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the recalcitrant behaviour of 4-month old babies strapped into car seats of very slow moving cars, this wine ended up being matched to AttilaÂ’s famous Tamari Almonds.
This wine showed none of the depth or aged and barrel characters of previous bottles, although Attila said it gained enough depth by the morning to enjoy with breakfast. This wine was poor value at $30. Rated Recommended as expectation were probably always too high for this wine, this wine was a disappointment on any and all levels and was a horrific start to the evening.
At least AttilaÂ’s Tamari Almonds were consumed in their entirety.
2) 1987 SEPPELT Great Western Vineyard Show Sparkling Shiraz
Ric commented that "Sparkling Shiraz does not get better than this" and it was agreed by all.
The colour was still bright red with dark red tinges. No brown but getting “c-throughÂâ€Â. Beautifully aromatic and deep nose with a huge base of cassis (DavidL noted DMS) and dark cherry fruit, with mulberry, liquorice, chocolate, raspberry, vanilla and only a hint of earthiness adding to the experience. The wine was extraordinarily dominated by fresh fruit and not aged characters. The palate was exceptional: balanced, long, complex and delicate. The wine was light in weight but deep in flavour and power. The small and persistent bead added to the balance, the “dance over the tongue†enjoyment and the softness of the wine, as did the fine tannins which were one with the wine. Some of my ideas of what Sparkling Shiraz can and should be were changed by this wine. Rated Outstanding/Ultimate, the evening had finally begun.
AttilaÂ’s Transylvanian vegetable soup was served next specifically to accompany the following wine. This was a simple, enjoyable dish that would have scared off any cold or flu that might have been coming my way.
3) 2003 KREINBACHER BIRTOK Somlói Furmint/Hárslevelu – Somlo, Hungary
Bright light straw. Some aromatics but dominated by banana, cream and vanilla from absolutely superb oak, and a mineral/earth streak throughout the wine. Ric also found liquorice and kerosene. Smooth palate with a hint of glycerine. Great power. Some finesse. No holes. Fine and long acid totally integrated with the wine. Great length. It reminded me of very high quality Burgundy. The wine had hardly changed after 36 hours. Rated Excellent, I felt that the absolutely gorgeous banana and superb oak flavours were over dominant at this time but, if this wine ages and it seems to have the ability to do so, I believe this rating will significantly improve.
4) 1994 TRIMBACH Cuvee Frederic-Emile Riesling - Alsace
This wine was the first of the big name disappointments. Sweet florals, honey, pineapple and a hint of mango on the nose. More lime is revealed as the wine breathes and warms up, particularly on the middle and back palate. Despite excellent complexity, the great amount of acidity in the wine did not provide any highlight to the flavours and structure. In fact the wine was broad and disjoined. The cork was in great condition but the wine seemed a bit oxidised. I keep tasting this bottle over the next 36 hours looking for some hint of greatness but it was never found. Rated Recommended/Highly Recommended, this was a nice mid-week wine.
Attila next served his Garlic prawns with yeast-free sourdough baguette to accompany his next wine. I thorough enjoyed this disk, not only due to the quality of the accompanying wine, but the sweetness and plumpness of the prawns.
[b]5) 1998 GYÖRGYKOVÃ
The third Club dinner of 2004 was held on Saturday, 7th August 2004. Unfortunately, this Club dinner will be remembered as “The DisasterÂâ€Â. I suspect the cool temperature of the dining room and the serving temperature of the wines played a significant part in the poor showing of some very "big" labels. Fortunately, the evening was “saved†by some less renowned wines.
Attendees were: Attila, David "The Grave Robber" Pearson, David Lole, TORB, Laszlo and Stephan. The evening was hosted by Attila this time.
Like all Club dinners, wines were served blind with spot-on and discussion ensuing before trivia and options are given until the wineÂ’s identity is known.
1) 1998 YALUMBA D Cuvée
Unfortunately the attendee who was to bring Champagne cancelled at the last minute, and due to terrible Saturday afternoon traffic on the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the recalcitrant behaviour of 4-month old babies strapped into car seats of very slow moving cars, this wine ended up being matched to AttilaÂ’s famous Tamari Almonds.
This wine showed none of the depth or aged and barrel characters of previous bottles, although Attila said it gained enough depth by the morning to enjoy with breakfast. This wine was poor value at $30. Rated Recommended as expectation were probably always too high for this wine, this wine was a disappointment on any and all levels and was a horrific start to the evening.
At least AttilaÂ’s Tamari Almonds were consumed in their entirety.
2) 1987 SEPPELT Great Western Vineyard Show Sparkling Shiraz
Ric commented that "Sparkling Shiraz does not get better than this" and it was agreed by all.
The colour was still bright red with dark red tinges. No brown but getting “c-throughÂâ€Â. Beautifully aromatic and deep nose with a huge base of cassis (DavidL noted DMS) and dark cherry fruit, with mulberry, liquorice, chocolate, raspberry, vanilla and only a hint of earthiness adding to the experience. The wine was extraordinarily dominated by fresh fruit and not aged characters. The palate was exceptional: balanced, long, complex and delicate. The wine was light in weight but deep in flavour and power. The small and persistent bead added to the balance, the “dance over the tongue†enjoyment and the softness of the wine, as did the fine tannins which were one with the wine. Some of my ideas of what Sparkling Shiraz can and should be were changed by this wine. Rated Outstanding/Ultimate, the evening had finally begun.
AttilaÂ’s Transylvanian vegetable soup was served next specifically to accompany the following wine. This was a simple, enjoyable dish that would have scared off any cold or flu that might have been coming my way.
3) 2003 KREINBACHER BIRTOK Somlói Furmint/Hárslevelu – Somlo, Hungary
Bright light straw. Some aromatics but dominated by banana, cream and vanilla from absolutely superb oak, and a mineral/earth streak throughout the wine. Ric also found liquorice and kerosene. Smooth palate with a hint of glycerine. Great power. Some finesse. No holes. Fine and long acid totally integrated with the wine. Great length. It reminded me of very high quality Burgundy. The wine had hardly changed after 36 hours. Rated Excellent, I felt that the absolutely gorgeous banana and superb oak flavours were over dominant at this time but, if this wine ages and it seems to have the ability to do so, I believe this rating will significantly improve.
4) 1994 TRIMBACH Cuvee Frederic-Emile Riesling - Alsace
This wine was the first of the big name disappointments. Sweet florals, honey, pineapple and a hint of mango on the nose. More lime is revealed as the wine breathes and warms up, particularly on the middle and back palate. Despite excellent complexity, the great amount of acidity in the wine did not provide any highlight to the flavours and structure. In fact the wine was broad and disjoined. The cork was in great condition but the wine seemed a bit oxidised. I keep tasting this bottle over the next 36 hours looking for some hint of greatness but it was never found. Rated Recommended/Highly Recommended, this was a nice mid-week wine.
Attila next served his Garlic prawns with yeast-free sourdough baguette to accompany his next wine. I thorough enjoyed this disk, not only due to the quality of the accompanying wine, but the sweetness and plumpness of the prawns.
[b]5) 1998 GYÖRGYKOVÃ
Last edited by Adair on Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I guess 'disaster' has to be kept in perspective...
I don't understand why you'd be amazed that a great wine weighs in at 'only' 13% alcohol (the Highbank). That's a perfectly respectable level I think - gosh last year I drank an outstanding Penfolds Bin 707 vintage 1983 which boasted all of 11.2% and suffered nothing for it.
I generally feel a lot happier picking up an bottle and seeing a number less than 14% on the back label - I think it's a real struggle to get proper balance at 14.5+...
cheers,
Graeme
I don't understand why you'd be amazed that a great wine weighs in at 'only' 13% alcohol (the Highbank). That's a perfectly respectable level I think - gosh last year I drank an outstanding Penfolds Bin 707 vintage 1983 which boasted all of 11.2% and suffered nothing for it.
I generally feel a lot happier picking up an bottle and seeing a number less than 14% on the back label - I think it's a real struggle to get proper balance at 14.5+...
cheers,
Graeme
GraemeG wrote:Well, I guess 'disaster' has to be kept in perspective...
I don't understand why you'd be amazed that a great wine weighs in at 'only' 13% alcohol (the Highbank). That's a perfectly respectable level I think - gosh last year I drank an outstanding Penfolds Bin 707 vintage 1983 which boasted all of 11.2% and suffered nothing for it.
I generally feel a lot happier picking up an bottle and seeing a number less than 14% on the back label - I think it's a real struggle to get proper balance at 14.5+...
cheers,
Graeme
Graeme,
Re disaster - if you bought and brought the 1988 Haut Brion, you might be more inclined to think the evening a disaster!
Re the Highbank, Coonawarra and alcohol. Yes and No. I agree with your general comments. I too much prefer wine at less than 14% - better structure and more balance (although the 1965 HRBurgundy was 14.5%). In fact, the 1982 Wynns John Riddoch at 12.1% is the only other Coonawarra Cabernet that I have had that compares well to this Highbank... however this was drunk at 21 years of age.
In today's wine world, including the Coonawarra, 13% on a Cabernet of the intensity, richness and approachability of the Highbank is definitely a surprise. However, the 13% level did give more support in my mind that the 2001 Highbank will age. Also, I doubt that the 1983 Bin 707 would have been at all approachable at 3 years of age.
Just my thoughts,
Adair
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JamieBahrain wrote:Great notes.
Missed opportunity for me. Last year I would fly to Cyprus ( Greek part ) monthly. Never bothered about chasing wines like the Berengaria as even the Cypriots mentioned their wines just OK!
Based on what the "Encyclopedia of Wine" states, Cypriot Commandaria wines today are nothing like they used to be. In fact, the final 2 sentences in the last paragraph of the section I am referring to states:
"Sadly, the products that today bear this ancient and distinguished name tarnish what is a remarkable heritage. A taste of one of the few surviving bottles of 100-year-old Commandaria would show why this wine was rated so highly for so long."
Very relevant!
Adair
Excellent notes Adair and much appreciate the hard work required in both remembering and writing down your perpectives on the wines.
Reading your notes on the 1988 Haut Brion I don't really get the impression it was a big disappointment - superb nose , still lots of firm tannins but these resolved with appropriate food[later that evening back home with your cheese]. I think that last point is critical.
Grand Cru bordeaux demand food - this is particularly the case in a year known for high tannin levels due to the small berry size. I'm not sure , but reading from your notes it seems as though you either didn't have any food with it or else "red fish with mashed potatoes and French mustard sauce" , though this seems to spread over around 10 reds and you do comment that it did't go with any of the food.
I wonder if this may have affected your perspective of the wine?
Cheers
paul
.
Reading your notes on the 1988 Haut Brion I don't really get the impression it was a big disappointment - superb nose , still lots of firm tannins but these resolved with appropriate food[later that evening back home with your cheese]. I think that last point is critical.
Grand Cru bordeaux demand food - this is particularly the case in a year known for high tannin levels due to the small berry size. I'm not sure , but reading from your notes it seems as though you either didn't have any food with it or else "red fish with mashed potatoes and French mustard sauce" , though this seems to spread over around 10 reds and you do comment that it did't go with any of the food.
I wonder if this may have affected your perspective of the wine?
Cheers
paul
.
Well, goodness forbid that such a disaster should strike again Spoilt does not begin to cover it, I think
Great notes, thanks for sharing. The 1988 Haut Brion is probably right up there as the leading candidate for the worst vintage of the wine in living memory, so I'm inclined to think you should be pleased that you enjoyed it as much as you did; even 1st Growth Bordeaux is average in the worst years ( so I've heard ).
Great notes, thanks for sharing. The 1988 Haut Brion is probably right up there as the leading candidate for the worst vintage of the wine in living memory, so I'm inclined to think you should be pleased that you enjoyed it as much as you did; even 1st Growth Bordeaux is average in the worst years ( so I've heard ).
Jakob wrote:Well, goodness forbid that such a disaster should strike again Spoilt does not begin to cover it, I think
Great notes, thanks for sharing. The 1988 Haut Brion is probably right up there as the leading candidate for the worst vintage of the wine in living memory, so I'm inclined to think you should be pleased that you enjoyed it as much as you did; even 1st Growth Bordeaux is average in the worst years ( so I've heard ).
I think the 88 HB was generally regarded as one of the best wines of the vintage!! there have been so many more worse vintages for Haut Brion...eg 1977, 1974, 1984, 1981, 1991, 1992, 1983, 1987, 1997.
Anyhow its all a very subjective thing...I have also found the 88 to be green, which was dissapointing, especially after a glowing parker review...
Adair
Here's a TN of the 88 HB from a vertical - see here:
http://www.wine-journal.com/hbvertical.html
Sounds indicative of your wine.
"Quite youthful in appearance compared to the 1989 and 1990 but dwarfed by both on the nose and palate. A dry herbal, woody nose typical of so many 1988's - very little fruit. The palate is austere, a bit mean and lacking some cohesion. Leafy tobacco finish. Definitely needs some food to accompany it. A bit disappointed considering this is a first growth. A bit skeletal overall. Drink now."
Cheers
Paul
Here's a TN of the 88 HB from a vertical - see here:
http://www.wine-journal.com/hbvertical.html
Sounds indicative of your wine.
"Quite youthful in appearance compared to the 1989 and 1990 but dwarfed by both on the nose and palate. A dry herbal, woody nose typical of so many 1988's - very little fruit. The palate is austere, a bit mean and lacking some cohesion. Leafy tobacco finish. Definitely needs some food to accompany it. A bit disappointed considering this is a first growth. A bit skeletal overall. Drink now."
Cheers
Paul
Adam wrote:I think the 88 HB was generally regarded as one of the best wines of the vintage!!
I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that my experience in this area is lacking next to yours so I can't really argue there, but...one of the best wines of the vintage? You say was, so is it just that it was much more promising earlier in its life and has since declined? Will have to win a (big) lottery and line up the entire last century of Haut Brion
Gentlemen,
allow me to say that in my personal opinion, the whole Haut Brion drinking story started with the OUT OF THIS WORLD 1981 vintage we've drunk earlier in April. Adair was so impressed by it, so he bought the supposedly better 1988 and as he paid the BIG money and had HIGH expectations, he (and for the record, I) weren't impressed when he poured it. It looked and tasted like an average red, o.k. to drink, pleasant and all but the MAGIC that usually trademarks a Premier Grand Cru was seriously missing. My Pichon Lalande tasted better but even there was something missing...these wines were good but we were expecting greatness that night.
Yes, imagine the shock, when it was delivered by the Highbank from Coonawarra!
Cheers,
Attila
allow me to say that in my personal opinion, the whole Haut Brion drinking story started with the OUT OF THIS WORLD 1981 vintage we've drunk earlier in April. Adair was so impressed by it, so he bought the supposedly better 1988 and as he paid the BIG money and had HIGH expectations, he (and for the record, I) weren't impressed when he poured it. It looked and tasted like an average red, o.k. to drink, pleasant and all but the MAGIC that usually trademarks a Premier Grand Cru was seriously missing. My Pichon Lalande tasted better but even there was something missing...these wines were good but we were expecting greatness that night.
Yes, imagine the shock, when it was delivered by the Highbank from Coonawarra!
Cheers,
Attila
"(Wine) information is only as valuable as its source" DB
And so it begins...I'm willing to bet that it won't be the last Haut Brion consumed in the hunt for that same 1981 experience Coincidentally I have a bottle of the 1985 Pichon lined up for a dinner in a few weeks, hopefully it'll be one of the good bottles; there seems to be some variation with these, I suppose there is with any Bordeaux once some years are under the belt
Our 1985 Pichon bottle was in absolute top condition, decanted 2 hours prior. It was a very pleasurable drink, didn't change much the next morning. Let's hope yours is in good condition. This wine is at it's best now I reckon. Good luck and enjoy!
Cheers,
Attila
Ps:Tell us about the experience, will you?
Cheers,
Attila
Ps:Tell us about the experience, will you?
"(Wine) information is only as valuable as its source" DB
Re: TNS: 3rd 2004 Club Dinner - "The Disaster"
Adair wrote:20) 1911 BERENGARIA Genuine Old Commandaria - Berengaria, Cyprus
Despite AttilaÂ’s assurance, there is still a segment of my mind that canÂ’t believe that this wine is 93 years old. Indeed the wine was gorgeous. The palate was long and absolutely seamless. The harmony between fruit, sweetness and acid was perfect. Nothing cloying. However, the flavours were so fresh, too fresh, I did not feel that much secondary characters had developed. In fact, this wine needed more age as the wineÂ’s lack of flavour complexity was its only weakness, but it showed no signed that it would not do so in the next 93 years. A pleasure to drink, rated Outstanding.
Adair
93 years old!! Are you sure that 1911 is not being confused with 1191, the date (on the back of the bottle) that coincides with the story of Richard the Lionheart, etc. (Same numbers different order).
My research on bottle closures tells me that screwtops, although invented by then (1911), were in very little use until after 1920. Even if earlier, it wouldn't have had such a modern looking bottle (would it?) and a pechiney-like, tamper evident short skirt screw cap closure.
I understand the screwcaps back then weren't so reliable and often had a cork underneath.
What was the front label like?
Cheers,
Sue
Re: TNS: 3rd 2004 Club Dinner - "The Disaster"
SueNZ wrote:Adair wrote:20) 1911 BERENGARIA Genuine Old Commandaria - Berengaria, Cyprus
Despite AttilaÂ’s assurance, there is still a segment of my mind that canÂ’t believe that this wine is 93 years old. Indeed the wine was gorgeous. The palate was long and absolutely seamless. The harmony between fruit, sweetness and acid was perfect. Nothing cloying. However, the flavours were so fresh, too fresh, I did not feel that much secondary characters had developed. In fact, this wine needed more age as the wineÂ’s lack of flavour complexity was its only weakness, but it showed no signed that it would not do so in the next 93 years. A pleasure to drink, rated Outstanding.
Adair
93 years old!! Are you sure that 1911 is not being confused with 1191, the date (on the back of the bottle) that coincides with the story of Richard the Lionheart, etc. (Same numbers different order).
My research on bottle closures tells me that screwtops, although invented by then (1911), were in very little use until after 1920. Even if earlier, it wouldn't have had such a modern looking bottle (would it?) and a pechiney-like, tamper evident short skirt screw cap closure.
I understand the screwcaps back then weren't so reliable and often had a cork underneath.
What was the front label like?
Cheers,
Sue
Attila gave us the story about the bottle and label. They are not the original. Attila, when you get a chance, please explain again?
Adair
Re: TNS: 3rd 2004 Club Dinner - "The Disaster"
Hello Sue and Adam,
The 1911, 1926 and 1931 Berengaria Commandarias were sealed in large earthenware jars until 1971 when they were bottled under screwcap. Some of these wines were then brought into Australia in 1974.
To get the full story about these Commandarias, go to: http://www.auswine.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8981 and scroll down to Attila's write up of the 1931 Berengaria Commandaria from this year's second Club Dinner.
Kind regards,
Adair
The 1911, 1926 and 1931 Berengaria Commandarias were sealed in large earthenware jars until 1971 when they were bottled under screwcap. Some of these wines were then brought into Australia in 1974.
To get the full story about these Commandarias, go to: http://www.auswine.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8981 and scroll down to Attila's write up of the 1931 Berengaria Commandaria from this year's second Club Dinner.
Kind regards,
Adair
Re: TNS: 3rd 2004 Club Dinner - "The Disaster"
Adair wrote:Hello Sue and Adam,
The 1911, 1926 and 1931 Berengaria Commandarias were sealed in large earthenware jars until 1971 when they were bottled under screwcap. Some of these wines were then brought into Australia in 1974.
Kind regards,
Adair
Sealed in earthenware jars - now that makes much more sense. Thanks for unravelling the mystery.
Cheers,
Sue
Attila wrote:Our 1985 Pichon bottle was in absolute top condition, decanted 2 hours prior. It was a very pleasurable drink, didn't change much the next morning. Let's hope yours is in good condition. This wine is at it's best now I reckon. Good luck and enjoy!
Cheers,
Attila
Ps:Tell us about the experience, will you?
No notes, too busy enjoying the wine with perfectly prepared Wagyu rump
Paired with a 1976 Wynns Cabernet, which was fantastic; in fact I'd have guessed the Wynns was an excellent vintage mid-1980s Rauzan-Segla had it been served blind - the flavour profile and tannin structure are very very similar. I can't see it getting better, but who cares? Big, great mouthfeel, beautiful balance and length, I'm sure it'll last another 5 or 10 years. Excellent.
That said, the 1985 Pichon-Lalande turned out to be the more impressive wine; a perfumed nose, supple ripe body, great texture and depth of flavour with a long finish. Also excellent, and may still improve as it integrates further; will live 10 years plus.
Cheers,
Jakob