OMFG - I thought we went spare with Wendouree !!

[markg]

BUt then I read this wine berserker thread (sorry Gavin ) and realised that we have nothing on the hype surrounding Sine Qua Non wines !!

http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vie ... c85ac5c341

[VINH NGUYEN]

cheering i was able to pick up some 06 SQN's from you when i did and for what i paid for them as well

[sjw_11]

Shhhh Wendouree might start thinking they ought to charge $200/bottle!

[felixp]

SQN makes many very nice wines. I laugh when I see the hype now, and remember the days in the early 2000's when British airways had SQN wines in their first class lounges at both JFK and Heathrow. Spent many an afternoon there waiting to come home, getting very happy consuming many a bottle hehehehe

I was on the Wendouree list for about 15 years, but gave it up a decade ago when I came to the realisation that the wine isn't much good. Whilst the hype may have some justification in the case of SQN, it certainly does not in the case of Wendouree.

[Blesso]

Felixp you obviousley haven't tried the 2012 Wendouree's

[Gavin Trott]

Felixp you obviousley haven't tried the 2012 Wendouree's

He may well have done, the Wendouree Wines are VERY VERY different to the Sine Qua Non wines ... from a different wine planet really.

Not everyone's style (both).

I've only tried one single Sine Qua Non wine, so very unrepresentative sample admitted, but it was not my style of wine, at all.

Horses for courses, perhaps?

.

[Hacker]

For my benefit, what would I expect a SQN wine to be like flavour spectrum wise? Is there a wine brand here in Oz to compare it/them against?

[VINH NGUYEN]

06 Sine Qua Non Raven pops from the glass like a jack in the box! Espresso, blackberry, blueberry, black raspberry, spice, jam and vanilla aromatics are all over the place. Thick, rich, dense and packed with layers of juicy ripe and over ripe fruit, this powerful Syrah ends with ripe jammy berries, chocolate, plums and oak. With so much fruit, I believe the oak will fully integrate. This wine is showing much better than it did a year ago.

Read more: http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/cal ... z3AplK7oEA

I have 3 of these that i got from Mark and based on the above tasting note, i'm hoping it is similar in style to your big bold Barossa Shiraz's that i do love.

[Diddy]

Felixp you obviousley haven't tried the 2012 Wendouree's

He may well have done, the Wendouree Wines are VERY VERY different to the Sine Qua Non wines ... from a different wine planet really.

Not everyone's style (both).

I've only tried one single Sine Qua Non wine, so very unrepresentative sample admitted, but it was not my style of wine, at all.

Horses for courses, perhaps?

.

I think 'horses for courses' definitely plays a role when it comes to wines, but to simply label a producer as "not that good" based on your personal preference of the house style (or lack thereof) is a little unfair.

I can't remember which wine critic wrote it (for some reason Gary Walsh comes to mind), but I recall reading a great article somewhere about how he personally disliked a certain style of wine, but nonetheless was able to offer a subjective, critical opinion on the wine on its merits relative to comparable offerings from other producers.

[Scotty vino]

SQN makes many very nice wines. I laugh when I see the hype now, and remember the days in the early 2000's when British airways had SQN wines in their first class lounges at both JFK and Heathrow. Spent many an afternoon there waiting to come home, getting very happy consuming many a bottle hehehehe

I was on the Wendouree list for about 15 years, but gave it up a decade ago when I came to the realisation that the wine isn't much good. Whilst the hype may have some justification in the case of SQN, it certainly does not in the case of Wendouree.

15 years to realise you didn't like it?
What made you hang in there? Surely something tasted good?

[Polymer]

Every SQN I've had has been big. They're not super overripe/over extracted messes..but they are quite big...Big fruit, big alcohol...There is actually an element if finesse in there though and you can tell the winemaking has been very immaculate. Standish are quite similar in feel and texture...Not quite the style I prefer but I think they're fun and entertaining and probably worth getting if you can get them at release prices....

I have the same comment about 15 years and Wendouree...How do you stay on the mailing list buying it for 15 years only to decide you've never liked it that much to begin with? That isn't unique since I think there are probably half a dozen people on here that have similar stories. Is it because there was one that really blew your mind and have been trying forever to experience that again (sounds a lot like Burgundy) or was it because you thought it would eventually evolve into something you really liked even though you disliked them young or youngish? With palates changing, etc..That just seems like a hefty investment in time and money only to realize you've never liked it....I don't think there is much I'd ever buy in that situation...I need to like a wine in different stages...I think the closest thing to this for me is a St. Henri..which I generally dislike young but really like with a lot of age...but I'd much rather just buy them with age on them rather than cellar forever...

[felixp]

actually Scotty, that is a really good point.
Yep 15 years, I first started buying the wines in stores i the 80's, having been told how great they are, so I went on the list. But after 15 years, all the wines that "just needed time" in fact just never got any better. So I ended up for years just buying the wines and plonking them straight in the cellar. I guess the final straw was when one of my tasting group (we have been together 20 years next year) hosted a night of blind "Wendouree v Leasingham CC" shiraz, and the latter trounced the former in all five vintages presented (from memory, 90 to 98). He, like all of us, had given up on the wines, despite the incredibly good price and the lovely patrons.
Anyway, in 2007, I finally decided to dispose of them. I went to my guy, said I wanted to sell my Wendouree, and he nearly fell over when I said there was 25 mixed dozen there for him, I think he was expecting 20 bottles or so. haha
Now, I have occasionally seen the later vintages, and they are more approachable, but I am yet to see a Wendouree with age that is a classic. Just check all the forums, TN's littered with "too young" no matter what age they are!!

I guess when I say the wines aren't any good, that is my opinion, same as just about every tasting note here is an individual opinion. I certainly can appreciate great wines that I don't like, Sauternes is a good example for me, but I not only do not particularly like these wines, I also don't think they are a very good example of what the region is capable of!!

As for SQN, I have not seen one since about 2004, but I do read that the wines have evolved into a rather "extreme" fruit forward style over the past decade, and I suspect I would not like them nearly as I did way back then. My memories were of incredibly balanced wines with an amazing purity of fruit and incredible length, but I cannot vouch for that in modern times.

[felixp]

oh, and staying on the list was not a problem, the wines were, and I presume still are, incredibly cheap. So getting a dozen or two each year was not the financial burden of, say, a Mount Mary or a Moss Wood. So, I just stayed on them, for years and years. Scores of them, including Rockford, Noon's, Greenock Creek, Giaconda etc etc. I am no longer on a single mailing list. Sadly, that is simply a reflection of my age, as you youngsters will discover, as you age, your tastes will change. As Jeremy Oliver once said, in the path of wine life, all roads lead to Burgundy.

[Polymer]

Too bad you don't have any 90 and 91s left.....

98s and 96s are good but still too young.....

I can see why some people dislike them....It is just one of those styles some love and some hate....it very far away from something like Noon and Greenock Creek...

[michel]

S
I was on the Wendouree list for about 15 years, but gave it up a decade ago when I came to the realisation that the wine isn't much good. Whilst the hype may have some justification in the case of SQN, it certainly does not in the case of Wendouree.

I have been cellar door to Wendouree in the 1990s- been trying their wines since the mid 1980s and they are just not my style- I could call them over rated- but what I will say is I am happy for the excitement about them but wonder if it is the 'hard to get cult factor ' here

michel

[phillisc]

Thought this thread might go this way.

I do not think the hard to get cult factor plays any part at all...it certainly doesn't for me.
What is so appealing about Wendouree and other small makers that are named in the posts above is the unwavering stance to commit to the customer and to over deliver in terms of the quality and experience.
Whether the wine style(s) is not exactly in the groove for you is probably a personal thing, not a detractor from what is in the bottle.
BMWs M models vs. Merc AMGs, both pretty desirable just depends what floats your boat.

The other appealing factor with a number of these wineries is the no nonsense approach...no bullshit with marketing, no flying winemakers around the world on excessive junkets and then attempting to flog lesser vintages at grossly inflated prices.
This has to be done of course because the marketing is so poor in the first place...particularly in the domestic sector.
Marketing like charity begins at home...but the big players forgot this in about 1980.
I really appreciate wineries that let the wines do the talking and the proprietor just quietly goes about their business.

Cheers
Craig

[camw]

Of course the "hard to get" (even thought most everyone sounds like they got most of what they requested this year) factor plays a part. There is a multi-page thread every year with people agonising over if their handwritten note will grant them permission to join the list, when the mailer will come, what colour crayon is on their mailer, if they'll get an allocation and so on - that doesn't happen for most other wineries (Rockford maybe, but not many others), with the same ideals and even sometimes better wines.

The rationalisation where if someone says Wendouree is good then it's critical opinion but if they think the wines are bad it must be a style preference doesn't make sense - you can't have it both ways. I generally like the wines but I have no real interest in buying them, I think I know a half dozen people on the list getting full allocations this year so I'm sure I'll taste them many times.

[Scotty vino]

I tried Wendouree for the first time about 3-4 years ago.
I wasn't even aware of it. A mate of mine mentioned it while we sat at the bar so we grabbed a shiraz
over the counter then and there and I tried it (a 2000). He'd had it a few times before and said it travelled 'pretty good'.
That was as much hype that surrounded it for me.Forget the mailing list hullabaloo.
I liked it off the bat, and have often lined it up with Greenock Creeks AP blocks and Alices
and even Rockford BPs in the same sitting.
The Wendouree Shiraz I've had have always stood up with the aforementioned wines albeit different in style.
I've always found that when you blow off the nail polish remover that comes with them, they open up really nicely.

Beyond the above experiences I'll admit to being a little caught up in the mystique once I learned of the mailing list etc etc.
But I simply go back to my original no frills experience and the fact that it 'did it' for me regardless of all the BS.

As for the little or no marketing approach, no website, loyalty and service to the customer etc etc. That's definitely part of the mystique. But it is nice to see old values, passion and genuine love for the product being made.
Trust me I've been to the winery, felt like Charlie Bucket the whole time.

[Polymer]

Of course the "hard to get" (even thought most everyone sounds like they got most of what they requested this year) factor plays a part. There is a multi-page thread every year with people agonising over if their handwritten note will grant them permission to join the list, when the mailer will come, what colour crayon is on their mailer, if they'll get an allocation and so on - that doesn't happen for most other wineries (Rockford maybe, but not many others), with the same ideals and even sometimes better wines.

Definitely the difficulty in getting it contributes to the number of people buying it when they don't really like it or are sure if they like it. No real way to explain why there are so many people on here that have basically said they were on the mailing list for X years, only to realize they don't really like it or it has never been as good as they thought it would be...

Even looking at the current thread...I'm sure there are a number of people buying that will realize they don't really like it...

[Hacker]

Even looking at the current thread...I'm sure there are a number of people buying that will realize they don't really like it...

It takes time to realise which of their portfolio shines out with time. Who can forget (who were there!) the 1990 Cab Malbec you bought to last year's Wendouree offline.

[Polymer]

Well if you bring a 91 this year that might be even better .

[Hacker]

Well if you bring a 91 this year that might be even better .

I've only got Shiraz from 1991 so that will have to do. Oh plus the malbec magnums. Not the quality I fear of the cab malbec.

[JamieBahrain]

It's a far more polarizing style at home I find. Abroad, with more diverse palates ( especially those broadened beyond Burgundy/Bordeaux ) I have found the wines well received ( when in or near a drinking window). I suppose, on the home front, this makes sense, the wines being backward in the fruit department and by Australian standards, non-conventionally structured with high acidity and high tannins.

I generally open three of four wines on a Sunday and see how they go throughout the week- near exclusively northern Italians ( Amarone & Barolo this week ). It's great fun. There are similarities at Wendouree and I suggest to the Wendouree collectors they do the same with some of their stash.