Thoughts on wineries that have wine clubs

[phillisc]

HI all,

just putting it out there and before we go any further on grand final eve, a disclosure to declare, this post is on the back of an email that I got at 5pm tonight, kicking me out of a wine club because I did not meet the annual spend of $800 per year.
After a 30 year purchasing history of this particular brand (no prizes for guessing, 400 km south of adelaide with the biggest vineyard holdings) within a large multinational, its officially time to say goodbye.
It did not matter that I spent nearly 3 grand purchasing 7 dozen wines this release at the chains, I am now considered trivial because I won't buy wines at full RRP in shit vintages such as 2011...rant over.
No hard feelings, have over a 1000 bottles in a near 50 year spread...need diversity and happy to spend the coin elsewhere.

But it has got me thinking
Why would you be in a wine club other than to support the little guy in some way.
Of all the clubs I have been in, after a while the commitment is just not worth it, inflated prices, cancelled club events, have to purchase in poor wet or hot vintages, when the little guy gives that year a miss.
Chances are there is a high turnover of staff, no familiar face at the CD, or voice on the telephone. Secondly most of these so called exclusive wines usually find their way to the second hand market...so no problem getting hold of them.

Clubs like Rockford stonewallers, where there is no charge and no pressure to spend, although most punters willingly do because the product is great, are few and far between.
I notice there are a few here on the forum that are members of Tyrells for example...what do you get?

Anyway just really curious about others experiences and perhaps from your ideas..one club door shuts and maybe a better one opens.

Cheers Craig.

[dave vino]

What wine club has an annual min spend of $800? Is it the jr one?

You get 20% off their wines at any retailer any other benefits?

[mjs]

Craig,

Think I might find myself in the same situation soon. I also have the same history going back 40 years!! Can't even guess how many bottles I have had from this maker, especially the black ones. I was in two minds joining, but they had some good deals at the time, don't think I'll get to 800 bucks though. Have undoubtedly spent more than that in the last year via other sources.

Malcolm

[TiggerK]

Ok, so obviously Wynns.... What a shocker. Do they have any idea of reality whatsoever? Lose all your regular customers because they won't buy from a crap vintage? Wow, maybe they know something you don't...... I thought it was all about the wine.

As Dave said, what benefits did you actually get from them in order to accept having to pay too much?

Club like this is not exactly supporting the little guy?

I say move on, plenty of actual 'little guys' doing some great wines, and sounds like you need some diversity in the cellar! Not to mention hosting a big vertical tasting in the near future!

[dan_smee]

I'm one of these who is a member of Tyrrell's - I find the club great - Vat 1 purchases on release, usually 36 bucks or thereabouts, when the 6 year olds in the stores are 60ish. Happy to buy early and store. Also, They have plenty that are reasonably hard to get hands on in quantities, and in good years, 4 Acres Shiraz is one of, if not the best in the Hunter.

Commitment is only 12 bottles, so, even in a bad year, I would easily get 12 Vat 63 Chard Sem at 23 a bottle. 20% off all purchases too.

[phillisc]

Ok, so obviously Wynns.... What a shocker. Do they have any idea of reality whatsoever? Lose all your regular customers because they won't buy from a crap vintage? Wow, maybe they know something you don't...... I thought it was all about the wine.

As Dave said, what benefits did you actually get from them in order to accept having to pay too much?

Club like this is not exactly supporting the little guy?

I say move on, plenty of actual 'little guys' doing some great wines, and sounds like you need some diversity in the cellar! Not to mention hosting a big vertical tasting in the near future!

Yes Tigger, you guessed it.
We got 20% off purchases but apart from the 2008 releases, not within a bull's roar of the chains since even with 20% off...and thats RRP...so let me work this one out, white label shiraz at $24 RRP, less $4:80 = $19:20 pb....I paid $11pb and got 36 bottles so $712 or $396...lets see if TWE can do the maths, more than a case for nothing...perhaps thats why the CEO had to go!

The only other thing we got was a cheese plate supposedly worth $15 when we visited the cellar door...a slice of brie and a few crackers...wacko...that will have them tearing the door down.

So the winery does not answer my emails
So there has been no club function in Adelaide dedicated to members for over 6 years
Time to pull stumps...the marketing sucks
Am buying the 2012s from the chains and then that is it, don't care how good the 2013 vintage is.....finished finished finished.

Will need Moira, (when all is said and done re my absolute bashing and contempt for multi-nationals who "forget" about the domestic market) she has been pretty good at replacing dud bottles.

And yes Tigger a massive vertical...just need to organise some glassware...perhaps the winery can offer their services of forwarding me some tasting notes and I would be very very grateful if they tossed in one Deborah Hutton as well...doesn't know much about wine but absolutely gorgeous.

Cheers
Craig.

PS hope someone from TWE is listening and that a response may be forthcoming...I make absolutely no apologies blasting the CD manager, they are just TWE drones who consider a 30 year purchase history as trivial and probably $40-50 grand spent...who knows!!...the loyal workers and winemakers are great...but the marketing buffoons and spin doctors...on ya bike!!

[Polymer]

So you get a discount but that ends up being more than a lot of outlets...so are there any special bottles or anything that makes it worth staying a member? If not, sounds to me like they did you favor .

[Panda 9D]

Seems like you were a Mouseketeer when you thought you were Stonecutter. You certainly deserve better than that. It seems to be one of the countless situations where it's obvious to those outside the company that they are acting foolishly but the culture of the company itself makes it appear rational to many within.

I don't know what your stocks are like and I don't entirely know the situation of the winery... BUT a fifty (or close to it) year vertical auction could gain some press attention.. and you can write the comments...ahem..

[mjs]

As I mentioned earlier I will probably also get ejected from the John Riddoch club soon on the basis of not achieving the minimum annual spend that they set. Not too fussed about that, just disappointed that the club doesn't really offer anything of worth. They did have a couple of very good deals maybe eight-ten months ago when I signed up, but bugger all since then. You would be stupid to buy at their normal prices. No special functions, dinners, tastings etc either. You don't get much for your $800 spend.

Have been to CD umpteen times and don't buy the normal purchases there either. Maybe the odd magnum and one or two other things you can't get elsewhere (like some Wynns branded barrels for the garden last year!). Did MYOB at CD in Feb which was a lot of fun. Stuff is almost always cheaper at the chains. Occasionally get stuff at TWE staff rates (which are good) through a mate.

So, at the end of the day,the "club" offers very few demonstrable benefits to members. It's a bit like they feel they have to have something, but don't really bother to develop a product which might actually attract some punters by providing real value. They are so big anyway, make so much product and sell through the chains, that sales brought the club would be bugger all. All that happens is that they just succeed in reinforcing the perception of a big, neanderthal business that isn't able to look after its loyal punters and doesn't really care anyway.

Having said that, I'm on quite a few other mailing lists/club type memberships, none of which really offer much apart from access to latest releases. Lets face it, the Australian wine market is chains first, daylight second, with some supplements from specialist outlets, mail order from smaller CDs, and the secondary market. Direct sales from the majors would be bugger all.

[daz]

Tahbilk's club is good, 10% discount for members and more on some special deals that often include wines with a bit of age. I think there's a member discount at the Wetlands Café too but I've only been to CD in 2000 before it was built. They have a fair few events but living in NQ, I've never attended any of them either. Some of the CD only wines can be very good, broaden the range of varietals available to members and, naturally, aren't available from retail outlets. In the reference to the thread about blends, they seem to have increased the number under the Tahbilk label over the last several years, the Dalfarras label having been mostly blends. Prices have steadily increased though and the core range can often be found cheaper at some chains but Tahbilk will price match. I haven't bought for a while as I've come to prefer buying 6-packs which aren't available freight-free, at that was the case(sic) a few years ago when I enquired about a price match for a 6-pack from a chain.

[Ddavew]

Such a shame for winery of that size asking for a min. Spending amount per year.i'm on 3 mailer list and only 1 of them asking for a 2 dozen a year commitment. Most of their wine only at the $20 mark. The top end wine around $60.i have no problems getting them every year. If the reds aren't good for the year, I will get more whites and vise verse.

[shauno]

Pepper Tree club has been good, never felt pressured to buy anything.

[MarKofQuality]

When you see the Wynns new black label pricing you may not want to remain a member in any case ...

Minimum case buy to remain a member - I don't think I'd usually join something like that in any case. They would want to give a significant discount over what you buy it locally for and to cover freight as well.

Kilikanoon club is good. No threshold. On charge or annual fee. Annually they offer a members only Prophecy Shiraz (2009 Clare in 2012, 2010 Barossa this year) at around $22 delivered - its very good. Vintage releases, magnums and other things periodically offered also.

[GraemeG]

Don't see the point in being a 'member' of a winery wine club that's part of one of the world's biggest wine companies.
Naturally you're of almost no value to them, they have millions of cases of wine a year to shift.
I don't know why they even bother to offer such a 'service'.
Except as a way to make (a little) easy money from the ill-informed (pricewise).

Family-owned wineries; Tahbilk, Tyrrells, that's a different thing altogether.
cheers,
GG

[phillisc]

Cheers to all the thoughtful posts on this one, really appreciated.
Amazing to think that I was an inaugural member when it was set up 10 or so years ago and they gave you a complimentary magnum of BL as long as you purchased.
Those were the days when multinationals had their heads screwed on and not up their backsides.

Not losing any sleep over it.
In regards to the 2011 BL, it is at my local chain for $24 and guess what its not selling....not a zack.
I have had two bottles along with 2 of the supposed CD release only "The gables".

Both wines are simply (and not one here Ian to draw out a tasting note) revolting...green hard lifeless, precious little on nose, no lovely sweetness or berry on the palate, harsh acidic and really sharp. No amount of time under the stelvin will save them. Have just finished 6 of the 2012 shiraz...really lovely little wine...well made.

Will happily console myself with next weeks expected Rockford order, followed by Noons...yipee

Cheers
Craig.

[marsalla]

Craig,
If its any consolation Dave Dearie also got kicked out of the cellar door club

[phillisc]

Craig,
If its any consolation Dave Dearie also got kicked out of the cellar door club

Marsalla, you are a cracker!!
You might be able to hear me laughing from my office...classic for dear old Mr Deary ..opps sorry Gavin I mean Mr Dearie.

Cheers and very good post.

Craig.

[sjw_11]

Over time I have been on Hugh Hamilton's, Briar Ridge and Tyrrell's formal wine clubs (i.e. automatic deliveries). I was always happy with Hugh Hamilton had their wines for probably 6 or 7 years till just now. Good value and a good mix of stuff you can drink early or cellar. The Briar Ridge I got bored of as their wines other than Chardonnay and Semillon just werent good enough. If they had offered an option to just have a mix of their whites I would have stayed on. They were both 2 dozen a year or 6pk/quarter respectively.

The Tyrrell's private bin club, as Dan mentions, is fantastic value provided you have room in the cellar. It also lets you decide yourself when to drink, so if you want to try a 1 or 3 yr old Vat 1 you can. I only get 6 whites, 6 reds at the moment and this doesnt bother them.

I am also on countless unofficial wine clubs/"members" mailing/cold calling lists as diverse as Yarra Yering (I somehow have a "medallion" despite never having bought a single bottle), Rockford, Kilikanoon, Skillogalee, Bests, Dalwhinnie, etc. I imagine I will gradually drop off as their regular phone calls will no longer reach me.

I have always found it better to be on a lot of lists, even if you get bothering phone calls all the time, as you just never know what offers will crop up.

[daver6]

Interestingly just received and completed a survey from Penfolds. A good portion of it was related to the Kalimna Club and what I thought of the various benefits and what other benefits I would like.

There was a question asking would I be prepared to commit to a certain annual spend in order to maintain membership. I gave them a big fat no to that. Seems to suggest TWE are looking at going the same way at Penfolds too.

[phillisc]

Interestingly just received and completed a survey from Penfolds. A good portion of it was related to the Kalimna Club and what I thought of the various benefits and what other benefits I would like.

There was a question asking would I be prepared to commit to a certain annual spend in order to maintain membership. I gave them a big fat no to that. Seems to suggest TWE are looking at going the same way at Penfolds too.

Daver6,

With the greatest repect to your post and agree with you 100%..annual commits are just a sly market practice...but

WHEN THE HELL WILL PENNIES OR TWE DO A GRASSROOTS FUNCTION WITH PUNTERS IN WA....NEVER!!

Ian can't even get one at Magill, 50 metres away from the winery and I can't get one for over 6 years from Coonawarra.
Should be the first item on the new CEOs aganda with China a distant last....but it won't.

Cheers Craig

[sjw_11]

My entire wine collection of 526 bottles has precisely... 12 bottles with red capsules. Of which the last I bought was in 2011. I simply can't be bothered to support them or most of the big commercial wineries when so much other good stuff is available with better QPR and more interesting back stories.

The only other TWE brand in my collection in any number is 30 bottles of Wynns, but these are mostly sub-$12 Wynns Shiraz from the benevolent oligarchs!

[DJ]

Interestingly just received and completed a survey from Penfolds. A good portion of it was related to the Kalimna Club and what I thought of the various benefits and what other benefits I would like.

There was a question asking would I be prepared to commit to a certain annual spend in order to maintain membership. I gave them a big fat no to that. Seems to suggest TWE are looking at going the same way at Penfolds too.

Had the same one come through. Interesting no real questions about when last bought Penfolds, is it value for money or will you buy again. I wonder how long before TWE gets into enough trouble that we see the big price cuts that we saw in 1990 (whole portfolio), about 2000 (when they tried to quickly increase the price of Wynns Michael and John Riddoch) and other failures.

May be there are enough suckers in the domestic market for them to continue to ignore it but ....

[daver6]

I went along to the Perth dinner several months ago where they showed off the latest premium wines.

While a fan night and a good way to try the wines, I got a little bit annoyed with all the marketing hype. How there was such strong demand and we shouldn't wait to buy. Also how there was no allocation of 707 for bottle shops or limited or some such rubbish. At the Peel Estate great Shiraz tasting, I got talking to a gent who was the fine wine manager at one of the Dan's stores here in Perth. I questioned him about this. Told me they can get as much as they want of whatever Penfolds wine.

The blatant marketing lies annoy me more than anything.

[MarKofQuality]

I went along to the Perth dinner several months ago where they showed off the latest premium wines.

While a fan night and a good way to try the wines, I got a little bit annoyed with all the marketing hype. How there was such strong demand and we shouldn't wait to buy. Also how there was no allocation of 707 for bottle shops or limited or some such rubbish. At the Peel Estate great Shiraz tasting, I got talking to a gent who was the fine wine manager at one of the Dan's stores here in Perth. I questioned him about this. Told me they can get as much as they want of whatever Penfolds wine.

The blatant marketing lies annoy me more than anything.

And if you don't want to pay the overinflated current release pricing, go to an online or in the flesh auction and buy some good vintaged stuff for half the price or less than the current release ...

[phillisc]

Oh, speaking about a couple good experiences with wine clubs of late, which coincidently I had no idea I was in any such club, on the back of buying a dozen 2012 rieslings from each, but hats off to Pikes and Knappstein. I got an invitation from both and the first function was fantastic.

I was invited to a tasting with Pikes recently, full range of current releases, a couple of back vintages, nice cocktail food, crowd of about 50 and Neil Pike having a chat to all about 2013 vintage etc....just lovely intimate and F$*& me...absolutely free.
Red hot specials on the night and they probably took $20 g in orders.

A great way to do business...bring your CD to Adelaide, no pretension and no bullshit...far better than the crap dished out to me in the earlier part of this thread.
Yes it takes a little bit of effort and expense to their business, but it is about connecting with your customers, something multinationals have no idea about, unless you want to part with $500 in a fancy just reopened restaurant, where you get a thimble full of each wine on offer.

Going to the Knappstien one soon, is along the same lines and yes if they have good prices like Pikes, then of course I will get some.

Cheers
Craig.