advice for a newcomer: where do I start?!

[JamieB]

Hi all,

I'm new on this site, and to the world of wine appreciation. Fed up with drinking random swill that I pluck off the shelf at the local bottle shop so I need some advice.

The main question I have at this stage is where do I start looking for recommendations on good wines to try? I'm on a limited budget so will mostly be drinking sub-$20 wines, whilst occasionally splashing out on something more expensive.

So where do you find good recommendations? Should I subscribe to one of the wine review websites? (if so, which?) Is the "Big Red Wine Book" worth getting? Sadly I don't have hours to spare every week scouring forums etc, and would really just like a list of a dozen wines every 4-6 months or so which would be good to try.

While I'm at it... do *you* have any suggestions for some good wines to check out under $20? I'm mainly into reds.

Any advice would be most welcome as I'm rather lost with where to start. So many wines, so little time...

jamie

[griff]

Welcome to the forum!

The forum is a good way to read about what people have been drinking lately and the search function is handy as well. A good free resource.

At this stage I think buying a book such as Matt's Big red wine book or the Penguin wine guide or Haliday's book or Jeremy Oliver's book is the best way to go about it. Most of these four have a section on the best wines under a certain price.

A few tips:

Don't buy more than 2 bottles of the same wine at a time. If it really is good then you can always buy more. Best to explore different wines at this stage.

Try different varietals (shiraz, cabernet etc.) from different regions (barossa, coonawarra etc.). If you have a strong response (good or bad) to a particular wine it could be the varietal type OR the region.

Should you particularly like or dislike a wine. Try to scribble down what made you have that response. Was it something you tasted or smelled. Did it remind you of anything.

Go to as many tastings as possible to broaden your horizons. Tastings at retailers or friends that also like wine can form a group.

If you let us know a wine you particularly liked then we can always suggest others similar to it.

cheers

Carl

[Loztralia]

I reckon Halliday's Wine Companion is the best starting point if only because it's got practically everything in it.

[Wayno]

There are stacks of threads on this forum regarding good sub $20 wines as well, do a search around and you'll find lots. Reading this forum on the odd occasion will also expand your awareness and will make purchasing and drinking much more informed. Enjoy the journey.

[Daryl Douglas]

Once past some quibbles about price points, there a few that may interest you mentioned in this thread:

http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.p ... sday+value

One that I've had quite a bit of lately, the basic-level Jacobs Creek Shiraz Cab 06 that I've been picking up for <$6 is exceptional value. Halliday 90pts though probably 87-88pts for me as it has a bit of cheapish volatility on the finish (not alcohol heat) that seemed to dissipate when I've left part-bottles for a day or so in the fridge. Need a bit of breathing in the glass for the first pour.

Tahbilk (Nagambie Lakes Vic) cab and shiraz have been pretty reliably very good since about the 03 vintage. Although still basically old-fashioned in style there seems to have been more noticeable fruit since then. I've some of their tempranillo 07 (never tried their version) and some cab franc 07 (reasonably popular here but I've not tried it for years) on the way along with a few shiraz 05. Even the standard cab and shiraz are usually released until three years after vintage.

Here are some other reccos for wines that can be found for ~$20 or less, rather than rrp. Some of the vintages quoted I may not have tasted but AFAIK are current release and have been rated by commentators about the same as or higher than earlier ones I have tried:

Seppelt Chalambar(Bendigo/Grampians) shiraz 06
Mike Press (Adelaide Hills) cab 07
Thorn Clarke Shotfire Ridge Quartage (Barossa) cab blend 06 (and the Shotfire shiraz)
Longhop (Adelaide Plains) shiraz 07
Torzi Matthews Schist Rock (Eden Valley) shiraz 07 (Domenic Torzi is winemaker at Longhop too)
Teusner Riebke (Ebenezer district, Barossa) shiraz 07
The Story Grampians shiraz 06
Forest Hill Vineyard (Great Southern/Mt Barker) cabernet merlot
Taylors (Clare Valley) cab 06
Taylors (ditto) shiraz 07
Tin Shed (Eden/Barossa Valleys) Melting Pot shiraz 06
D'Arenberg (McLaren Vale) The Footbolt shiraz 06
Hewitson (McLaren Vale) gsm 06
Paxton AAA (McLaren Vale) shiraz grenache 07
Metala (Langhorne Creek) shiraz cab 06
Saltram Mamre Brook and Pepperjack reds (SA but not sure if all Barossa - these labels are Hardys/Constellation)
Blue Poles (Margaret River) Hopping Stone tempranillo 07 ($22 + $10 freight from the winery or free for a dozen, nationally)
Bleasedale (Langhorne Creek) Bremerview shiraz and Mulberry Tree cab I mentioned in the link.

Including those ~$20 mentioned in the link above, there's a start for you.

I'm sure others will add many more.

Cheers

daz

[winetastic]

I can recommend the wine front for subscriptions, each month they are releasing a pdf document of "the best" wines from that period, as well as a big history of searchable tasting notes.

As far as specific recommendations go, you cannot go wrong with Mount Pleasant Elizabeth Semillon and Mount Pleasant Philip Shiraz - both are widely available for around $13-15.

[Deejay]

My current sub $20 favourites are Kalleske Clarrys Red 2007 and the 2006 Tim Adams the Fergus - along with the Mike press range. But in general go to some tastings either at stores or organised by associations, or have a holiday in a wine region. THis way you get to taste alot more before you buy.

[JamieB]

Wow, thanks for the feedback everyone. Daryl, I'm going to start making my way through your list of suggestions very shortly thanks.

Does anyone know whether the Torzi Matthews Schist Rock shiraz 07 is still available anywhere? Looks like it might be sold out.

I might get a subscription to winefront (looks like a good site, and I like the idea of a monthly top 50) and put together a mixed case from somewhere. Might be tricky finding a retailer that stocks most of the ones that have been suggested though. Maybe I'll just start with some wines from the auswine... hard to go past trying a Mike Press red at $12!

Thanks again for your suggestions (and any more that follow)! It's exactly what I was after. Saves me trying all sorts of randoms as I have been lately.

I know I said I mainly prefer reds, but if anyone wants to chip in with a suggestion for a riesling or sauv blanc that would be great too. From the little I've read on these forums SB doesn't seem too popular, but it's easy to drink and my girlfriend likes it!

[JamieB]

> Mike Press (Adelaide Hills) cab 07

BTW, where can you get this? The auswine shop only appears to have the 06... does that mean that the 07 has only recently been released? Is the 07 meant to be better than the 06?

[Daryl Douglas]

> Mike Press (Adelaide Hills) cab 07

BTW, where can you get this? The auswine shop only appears to have the 06... does that mean that the 07 has only recently been released? Is the 07 meant to be better than the 06?

I cruised through all but 2 bottles of the MP cab 06, it's a great quaffer, quite varietal but does have some malty oak initially that I found I quickly became used to, not a problem for me. Campbell Mattinson at Wine Front rates the 07 marginally (+1pt = 91pts) higher. Here's a link to the winery's site. Judy Press is a lovely woman, I've exchanged a number of emails with her, spoken a couple of times on the phone - she's probably already despatched the case of the cab 07 I requested last week. The shiraz 07 sold out months ago but I was lucky enough to have a couple left when I found that out so ordered the cab 06 instead, loved it too. Here's a link to the winery website:

http://www.mikepresswines.com.au/

Cheers

daz

PS: James Halliday's Wine Companion website is my "go to" site. He started releasing 100 TNs several months ago (and is about half the cost of The Wine Front). I also subscribe to The Wine Front and The Red Bigot's Red Wine Buying Guide. I use The Wine Front for recent releases if they're not available on the Halliday site though sometimes neither has a review of the latest release of the wine I'm interested in. Brian (RB) occasionally finds good prices on some good <$20 wines.

[Daryl Douglas]

Wow, thanks for the feedback everyone. Daryl, I'm going to start making my way through your list of suggestions very shortly thanks.

Does anyone know whether the Torzi Matthews Schist Rock shiraz 07 is still available anywhere? Looks like it might be sold out.

I know I said I mainly prefer reds, but if anyone wants to chip in with a suggestion for a riesling or sauv blanc that would be great too. From the little I've read on these forums SB doesn't seem too popular, but it's easy to drink and my girlfriend likes it!

Jamie, unfortunately, the Torzi Matthews reds do seem to sell out pretty quickly, they're very popular. It seems there's still some of the Longhop (Adelaide Plains) shiraz 07 available - 90pts Halliday, 89pts Walsh I think. I found some similarity with the Schist Rock 07 and it may give you some idea of Domenic's winemaking style. The 3pk is a handy intro:

http://www.oldplains.com/Wines.htm

Here's a seriously boutique wine, just released, to consider - I mentioned the 06 in the list above:

http://thestorywines.blogspot.com:80/20 ... eased.html

N4Sir(Ian) reviewed the Mike Press SB in his Adelaide Hills post today and I'm pretty sure there's a review of it by Adair somewhere here as well as the winery link I posted above. Not a big fan of the variety myself.

Jim Barry Watervale is one of my favourite cheaper rieslings as well as Tahbilk's (also enjoy the latter's roussanne). Don't discount the old Jacob's Creek riesling either as it's generally very good, excellent in some vintages, especially at the price.

Cheers

daz

[oakboy]

Hi all,

I'm new on this site, and to the world of wine appreciation. Fed up with drinking random swill that I pluck off the shelf at the local bottle shop so I need some advice.

The main question I have at this stage is where do I start looking for recommendations on good wines to try? I'm on a limited budget so will mostly be drinking sub-$20 wines, whilst occasionally splashing out on something more expensive.

So where do you find good recommendations? Should I subscribe to one of the wine review websites? (if so, which?) Is the "Big Red Wine Book" worth getting? Sadly I don't have hours to spare every week scouring forums etc, and would really just like a list of a dozen wines every 4-6 months or so which would be good to try.

While I'm at it... do *you* have any suggestions for some good wines to check out under $20? I'm mainly into reds.

Any advice would be most welcome as I'm rather lost with where to start. So many wines, so little time...

jamie

Jamie, when you splash out.... make sure it's something really good, so you can see the difference in a quaffer and a aged special wine!!!

[Bob H.]

I know I said I mainly prefer reds, but if anyone wants to chip in with a suggestion for a riesling or sauv blanc that would be great too. From the little I've read on these forums SB doesn't seem too popular, but it's easy to drink and my girlfriend likes it!

Jamie, I live in the USA and don't really get a lot of the better OZ reds in the price range you specify. However, you are looking too for a white it seems. My favorite OZ white wine is the Tahbilk marsanne. This IMO is a red wine drinker's white if ever that can be.

Daryl recommended Tahbilk above and I can agree with him. He says the Tahbilk cab and shiraz are in an old fashioned style. I will slightly disagree (being that I am in the US my take might naturally be different from his or likely yours). Anyway I think the shiraz from Tahbilk is more of a northern Rhone style, of course that might be viewed as old-fashioned. It is not all about the fruit to me, sometimes it is about nuance and terrior.

You are on the right track, buy it and try it is a heck of a good way to learn. Asking others, especially here is too.

[Daryl Douglas]

Hi Bob

A point you noted well.

I meant "old-fashioned" in an Australian context, as a juxtaposition to the ripe (at times perhaps over-ripe), full-fruited examples of red wines from the Barossa and to a perhaps lesser extent, McLaren Vale that are here described as modern in style. Additionally, Tahbilk's traditional red varieties, cab and shiraz, perhaps the cellar door only varieties as well, are still made much as they were some 140+ years ago:

https://www.tahbilk.com.au/about/winemaking/

Tahbilk marsanne these days seems to be regarded as an icon wine at least as much as is McWilliams Mt Pleasant Elisabeth Hunter semillon, though I prefer the marsanne, have had some lovely aged vintages direct from the winery. The 2000 was probably the best young marsanne I've had from Tahbilk, was definitely a red wine drinker's white. Yet the roussanne has found more favour on my palate with more mouthfeel and generally softer acid. Tahbilk riesling is one of the winery's quiet achievers and perhaps my favourite white from there - it's now won a heap of show medals. Haven't had the semillon for quite a while but I prefer it to searingly acidic young Hunter sems and it's another quiet achiever on the show circuit.

Back to the reds, Halliday has given the shiraz 05 a glowing review, 93pts. I've a few of it (plus some tempranillo, cab franc and roussanne) in a mixed case waiting for me when I return to work on Thursday after a week off, will crack a screwcap and post a tn.

Tahbilk is a most reliable winery, usually at least very good wines that display clear varietal characters, though there are other wineries that often produce better examples, mostly at higher prices. The service is a benchmark for me, equalled by some but never bettered.

You're absolutely correct in regard to terroir, it's unique, shared only by Mitchelton. I think the Purbrick family's long (3 or 4 generations?) association with the site shows in the wines. I hope to visit the winery again one of these days, spend more time there than I did 8 years ago.

Regards

daz

[JamieB]

Thanks again for your help Daryl, and Bob.

I passed by the bottle shop yesterday and picked up some Tahbilk Marsanne 2008. I was reasonably happy with it but probably won't be running out to buy more. I think I'll stick to reds for a while until I find some that I particularly like before I explore more of the whites. I found the marsanne to be very pleasant to drink, but lacking a little in complexity and interest. Sorry, can't be more specific than that as my experience and vocabulary in wine critiquing is pretty limited!

I've put together a list of sub $20 reds that I think I can get a hold of easily (eg. without having to order a dozen direct from the winery). Not sure whether I'll buy them all at once or try and pick them up one at a time from local bottleshops. Here's my list (compiled from Daryl's and others suggestions, and a few hours of googling on the web):

Tin Shed (Eden/Barossa Valleys) Melting Pot shiraz 06
Darenberg (McLaren Vale) The Footbolt shiraz 06
eusner The Riebke Barossa Valley Shiraz 2007
West Cape Howe Shiraz 2005
Majella The Musician Coonawarra Cabernet Shiraz 2007
Fernfield Triple C Cabernet Sauvignon 2006
Longhop Shiraz 2007
Vincognita McLaren Vale Shiraz 2006
Mike Press Wine Cabernet Sauvignon 2006
Yalumba Y Series Shiraz 2007
Tar & Roses Shiraz 2007
Grant Burge Miamba Shiraz 2006
Balnaves of Coonawarra The Blend 2006
Hoddles Creek Pinot Noir 2007
Richard Hamilton Hutt Block Cabernet 2006
Wise Margaret River Shiraz 2007
Thorn Clarke Shotfire Ridge Quartage 2006

Assuming I just try them one at a time, are there any of these which are "stand outs" compared to the others? I'd like to try the better ones first... helps keep up the enthusiasm and provides a bit of a 'standard' for other wines to meet. Also if I'm unimpressed with the better ones (unlikely!) I won't bother searching out all the others, and will try something more expensive instead.

BTW, did I mention that a week ago I tried a Yellowtail Shiraz? Couldn't finish more than a glass of it... ugh. That was one of the wines that convinced me I needed to do some research (and probably avoid most $10 bottles of wine!).

[griff]

You have quite a few warm climate shiraz wines in that mix. Would be good first off to try one of them against the Tar and Roses 2007 Shiraz to see which you prefer.

cheers

Carl

p.s. I often think that chardonnay is the easiest way for a red wine drinker to get into whites.

[JamieB]

> You have quite a few warm climate shiraz wines in that mix. Would be good first off to try one of them against the Tar and Roses 2007 Shiraz to see which you prefer.

Ah, thanks, that's the sort of thing I have no clue about!

It would be good to avoid sampling quite similar wines initially, as you say. I've gone through the list and yes I do have a lot of shirazes listed, and I don't really have any idea how one would differ from another. If you were only going to try 3 or 4 shirazes initially, to cover the broadest range of styles, which would you pick? Probably the Tar and Roses and ..?

Tin Shed (Eden/Barossa Valleys) Melting Pot shiraz 06
Darenberg (McLaren Vale) The Footbolt shiraz 06
Teusner The Riebke Barossa Valley Shiraz 2007
West Cape Howe Shiraz 2005
Longhop Shiraz 2007
Vincognita McLaren Vale Shiraz 2006
Yalumba Y Series Shiraz 2007
Tar & Roses Shiraz 2007
Grant Burge Miamba Shiraz 2006
Wise Margaret River Shiraz 2007

Cheers, J

[griff]

1. Footbolt or Vincognita (both McLaren)

2. Teusner or Grant Burge (both Barossa)

3. Wise or West Cape Howe (although different places, both WA)

4. Tar and Roses (heathcote but european style)

Those 4 shiraz should help determine what style you should investigate further. Don't necessarily look too much for the best wine in each category - look for different regions/styles at this stage

cheers

Carl

[JamieB]

Thanks Carl. I think that sounds like a good idea. Cheers!

[Bob H.]

Thanks again for your help Daryl, and Bob.
I passed by the bottle shop yesterday and picked up some Tahbilk Marsanne 2008. I was reasonably happy with it but probably won't be running out to buy more. I think I'll stick to reds for a while until I find some that I particularly like before I explore more of the whites. I found the marsanne to be very pleasant to drink, but lacking a little in complexity and interest. Sorry, can't be more specific than that as my experience and vocabulary in wine critiquing is pretty limited!

Jamie, I have several vintages of the Tahbilk marsanne going back to 1995. All are drinking well, but I have never found one that I thought a lot of right off the bat. I think the Tahbilk marsanne needs 5 years to even begin to show well. Before then they are much as you describe. I have 2 cases of the 2002 and those are just now starting to show what they will become. I also have 2 cases of the 2006 vtg and I won't even try another of those for at least 3 more years. I have about 6 of the 1995 which is really singing right now, it is very hard to keep my hands off them. the 2000 is just starting to "get there". So, I would say that you should get what you can even if you must buy library wines from the cellar door. Tahbilk ships very reasonably for you guys down under. Wish I could buy them with shipping so reasonable.

[JamieB]

Just a quick update on the three wines I've tried recently:

Teusner The Riebke Shiraz 07 Enjoyed this one. Great blackberry/cherry aroma, long finish and very moorish.

Deen de Bortoli Vat 8 Shiraz 06 A cheapy at just $10, but gets good reports and 90 pts from halliday. I was unimpressed the night I opened it. It seemed to be confined to the front of my palate, with very little taste appearing in the mid or back end (not sure what you call that!). Much improved the next night though, so I'd probably be happy to drink it again (for the price).

Koonara Angel's Peak Cab Sav 2005 Was immediately impressed by this one, and was my favourite of the three. Plenty of complexity (for me!), concentrated flavour, and a nice finish. I could happily drink this often. Anyone else tried it? If so, care to point me towards some similar wines I should try?

Cheers, Jamie

[Daryl Douglas]

Bob, Tahbilk charges freight only to W.A., N.T. and Tassie which is better than reasonable for many wineries (or etailers) in Aust. at $12/doz, or $1/btl. Elsewhere, nationally, freight is included in the purchase cost of the wines themselves (i.e. "free"). My current-release "stars" from Tahbilk are the Shiraz 05 and the Roussanne 08, they're both bloody good wines at very good prices to club members.

Haven't tried Teusner Riebke 07 but the few bottles of the 06 I've had were very nice indeed - only one left unfortunately.

Rory Lane's The Story Grampians Shiraz 07 (not tried it but it..) has had good press and is one I'd recommend for $22+freight, based my experiences of the Grampians 06 and Westgate 06 - presently sipping on the last glass of a bottle of the former and loving it!

Carl, I'd go to the Grampians before Heathcote. Never tried any Mt Langi Ghiran but the Langi seems to be a benchmark (premium priced flagship wine at $55-$60) cool climate shiraz. The Langi 05 is a stellar wine from what I've seen. That said, the Tar and Roses Shiraz 07 is excellent value for ~$15 or so and as you mention, in a European style, more savoury than most with a touch of elegance for mine.

Cheers

daz

Cheers

daz

[griff]

Carl, I'd go to the Grampians before Heathcote. Never tried any Mt Langi Ghiran but the Langi seems to be a benchmark (premium priced flagship wine at $55-$60) cool climate shiraz. The Langi 05 is a stellar wine from what I've seen. That said, the Tar and Roses Shiraz 07 is excellent value for ~$15 or so and as you mention, in a European style, more savoury than most with a touch of elegance for mine.

Cheers

daz

Cheers

daz

Remember the contraints imposed by the OP. Thought I would stick to his list. Tar & Roses is the most different one on there so is an essential try if trying to scope out preferred styles.

cheers

Carl

[griff]

Just a quick update on the three wines I've tried recently:

Teusner The Riebke Shiraz 07 Enjoyed this one. Great blackberry/cherry aroma, long finish and very moorish.

Deen de Bortoli Vat 8 Shiraz 06 A cheapy at just $10, but gets good reports and 90 pts from halliday. I was unimpressed the night I opened it. It seemed to be confined to the front of my palate, with very little taste appearing in the mid or back end (not sure what you call that!). Much improved the next night though, so I'd probably be happy to drink it again (for the price).

Koonara Angel's Peak Cab Sav 2005 Was immediately impressed by this one, and was my favourite of the three. Plenty of complexity (for me!), concentrated flavour, and a nice finish. I could happily drink this often. Anyone else tried it? If so, care to point me towards some similar wines I should try?

Cheers, Jamie

Interesting that you liked a Cabernet as most of the list has been shiraz so far. Coonawarra Cabernet with french oak. Might want to try the Mike Press Cabernet (but has American oak). Not too many french oaked cabernets in this price range and may have to go for 15 to 20 or so and all of a sudden you have Brands Laira, Grant Burge Cameron Vale and Kirrihill Single Vineyard Series from what I have tried.

cheers

Carl[/i]

[JamieB]

Interesting that you liked a Cabernet as most of the list has been shiraz so far. Coonawarra Cabernet with french oak. Might want to try the Mike Press Cabernet (but has American oak).
cheers

Carl[/i]

Yes I must get my hands on some of that Mike Press cab and give it a go. Will try some of those other suggestions of yours under french oak too. Thanks for the suggestions.

[JamieB]

Rory Lane's The Story Grampians Shiraz 07 (not tried it but it..) has had good press and is one I'd recommend for $22+freight, based my experiences of the Grampians 06 and Westgate 06 - presently sipping on the last glass of a bottle of the former and loving it!

Cheers daz

Probably won't get around to buying this until I've checked out a few more of the sub-$20 bunch. I've put it on my list though.

The tar & roses should be pretty easy to come by so will give it a try. Cheers to everyone for your feedback.