I'm wondering if anyone here can help me or guide me in the right direction?
My 12 year old son has a project to do for French class. He has elected to choose wine as his topic and needs to describe 5 differences and 5 similarities between here and France on this topic.
After much thinking and perusing of the internet I think I've come up with 5 reasonable things for him to cover.
- Wine production
- Climate or terroir
- Grape varieties
- Soil
- Viticulture
After looking through this forum and reading various sites I'm still none the wiser and both he and I are getting a little frustrated.
While I understand terroir includes climate and soil I would like to keep them separate in an attempt to better explain the importance of them. If this is going to prove too difficult I will gladly accept any other suggestions offered.
I do have a book here at home, The Production of Grapes and Wine in Cool Climates by David Jackson and Danny Schuster, however most of it I don't follow and it can get a bit technical for a 12 yr old.
Thank you in advance.
Saffy
Trying to locate information - any help appreciated
Hi Saffy, welcome to the forum!
I'd suggest one of the most obvious differences to the consumer is the naming of wines & the associated regulations imposed by regulatory bodies on that naming. Others will be much more knowledgable than I am in this subject, but the French institute a fairly rigorous system for wineries to achieve Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée (AOC) status for their wines. This can dictate the origin of the grapes, the winemaking techniques used etc. Their governing bodies also dictate which wines can be labelled as Grand Cru, Premier Cru etc based on the site of the vineyard. To my knowledge, no such system exists in Australia, where the labelling is much more focussed on the grape types used to make the wine.
This could also extend to labelling issues such as the percentage of alcohol disclosed on the label and the amount of error allowed, which I believe differs from Australia to France.
On a separate note, big kudos to your son for doing a project on wine at the age of 12. Coolest kid in school without a doubt.
Cheers
Nick
I'd suggest one of the most obvious differences to the consumer is the naming of wines & the associated regulations imposed by regulatory bodies on that naming. Others will be much more knowledgable than I am in this subject, but the French institute a fairly rigorous system for wineries to achieve Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée (AOC) status for their wines. This can dictate the origin of the grapes, the winemaking techniques used etc. Their governing bodies also dictate which wines can be labelled as Grand Cru, Premier Cru etc based on the site of the vineyard. To my knowledge, no such system exists in Australia, where the labelling is much more focussed on the grape types used to make the wine.
This could also extend to labelling issues such as the percentage of alcohol disclosed on the label and the amount of error allowed, which I believe differs from Australia to France.
On a separate note, big kudos to your son for doing a project on wine at the age of 12. Coolest kid in school without a doubt.
Cheers
Nick
Hi Nick and thanks for the reply.
Yes, I did read up on the AOC and the book I have talks about it as well, however I didn't really follow it. Might go back and have another crack at it. Might have a rethink and include regulations as an option as there might be a bit more information on it.
Who knows, all this reading up I'm doing might encourage me to plant out some vines of my own as the previous owners here had started but looks like they gave up. There is a few trellises, some irrigation and one vine stump but no clue as to what varieties they grew.
Saffy
Yes, I did read up on the AOC and the book I have talks about it as well, however I didn't really follow it. Might go back and have another crack at it. Might have a rethink and include regulations as an option as there might be a bit more information on it.
Who knows, all this reading up I'm doing might encourage me to plant out some vines of my own as the previous owners here had started but looks like they gave up. There is a few trellises, some irrigation and one vine stump but no clue as to what varieties they grew.
Saffy
One of your easy differences is that French wines are mostly named after places. Chablis, Burgundy, Champagne, Bordeaux, Alsace... The primary name on French wines - the word with the biggest print on the label - tends to be the name of the region. The five names above are all places.
In Australia, it's very different. Here, the producer is king, followed perhaps by the grape. There is no place called Penfolds, or Lindemans, or Wolf Blass, or McGuigans. Similarly, Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, Merlot, etc, are the names of constituent grapes. The notion that the most obvious, or prominent, word on an Australian wine label could be 'Coonawarra' or 'Tamar Valley' is about as alien as concept as you could find in this country.
(This is a roundabout way of addressing the AOC question, but perhaps in a way better suited to the school project of a twelve-year-old).
cheers,
Graeme
In Australia, it's very different. Here, the producer is king, followed perhaps by the grape. There is no place called Penfolds, or Lindemans, or Wolf Blass, or McGuigans. Similarly, Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, Merlot, etc, are the names of constituent grapes. The notion that the most obvious, or prominent, word on an Australian wine label could be 'Coonawarra' or 'Tamar Valley' is about as alien as concept as you could find in this country.
(This is a roundabout way of addressing the AOC question, but perhaps in a way better suited to the school project of a twelve-year-old).
cheers,
Graeme
One of the main differences between the two industries is that Australia is an innovative industry while the French (at least in the past) is regulative. The regulations in France allow vine growers to only grow certain grapes in certain areas and winemakers to use only certain grapes to be used in their wines but in Australia you are free to plant what ever you like on you property, allowing for experimentation and the ability to change with the current tastes of the public.
Another difference is that Australia has had to develop technologies to help deal with our sometimes difficult climate for growing graps and making wine. Because we here in Australia have to deal with hotter harvests and vintages than the Northern Hemesphere, at least in some of our wine regions, our winemakers have had to develop technologies to help produce the best possible wines. Techniques such as climate controlled fermentation were developed out of need.
A great book to read is "A good nose and great legs" Robert Geddes MW
Another difference is that Australia has had to develop technologies to help deal with our sometimes difficult climate for growing graps and making wine. Because we here in Australia have to deal with hotter harvests and vintages than the Northern Hemesphere, at least in some of our wine regions, our winemakers have had to develop technologies to help produce the best possible wines. Techniques such as climate controlled fermentation were developed out of need.
A great book to read is "A good nose and great legs" Robert Geddes MW
Thank you both for your replies. Believe it or not the information you're providing me is actually better than what I've found on the net so far, at least in terms of being able to understand it!
I'm presuming that as far as terroir is concerned, from what I've read, the type of soil has alot to do with the type of grape that can be grown successfully. I read somewhere that the AOC grades the soil into three classifications. The best for top quality wine, next for table wine and the third for produce (they regulate their food too).
One other point I found was that certain producers in France can add sugar whereas here we can't add sugar but we can add acid. I'm guessing this has to do with our climate versus theirs?
I'll take a trip to the library tomorrow and see if I can locate that book too.
Thanks.
Saffy
I'm presuming that as far as terroir is concerned, from what I've read, the type of soil has alot to do with the type of grape that can be grown successfully. I read somewhere that the AOC grades the soil into three classifications. The best for top quality wine, next for table wine and the third for produce (they regulate their food too).
One other point I found was that certain producers in France can add sugar whereas here we can't add sugar but we can add acid. I'm guessing this has to do with our climate versus theirs?
I'll take a trip to the library tomorrow and see if I can locate that book too.
Thanks.
Saffy
pcjm wrote:The regulations in France allow vine growers to only grow certain grapes in certain areas and winemakers to use only certain grapes to be used in their wines
In fact, I don't believe there is legally anything to stop you planting, for instance, shiraz in Bordeaux, except for the very real economic fact that if you do, you can't call the resulting wine 'Bordeaux'. Because 'Bordeaux' can't have shiraz in it. You could try marketing it under whatever the Vin de Pays name is for that region (that might be allowed - I'm not sure), but of course it won't fetch nearly the price it would otherwise.
cheers,
Graeme
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Daryl Douglas
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Nearly all of the wine I buy is sourced over the internet but do occasionally buy a 6pk from DM when there's a good special on offer. As the range locally and vfm has diminished so too has the quantity of wine I buy from 1st Choice which has become just about my Last Choice. Living where I do, freight cost is a factor I have to seriously consider. I believe the Gold Coast to be a cheaper destination for most etailers who charge for freight.
This thread isn't the first time I've seen the Kirra outlet criticised for the decline in the range offered.
Cheers
daz
This thread isn't the first time I've seen the Kirra outlet criticised for the decline in the range offered.
Cheers
daz
Daryl Douglas wrote:Nearly all of the wine I buy is sourced over the internet but do occasionally buy a 6pk from DM when there's a good special on offer. As the range locally and vfm has diminished so too has the quantity of wine I buy from 1st Choice which has become just about my Last Choice. Living where I do, freight cost is a factor I have to seriously consider. I believe the Gold Coast to be a cheaper destination for most etailers who charge for freight.
This thread isn't the first time I've seen the Kirra outlet criticised for the decline in the range offered.
Cheers
daz
Erm, is this the right thread Daz (or the right forum?)
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winetastic
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KMP
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winetastic wrote:Maybe things have changed since I went through school, but is there a reason you are doing this research rather than your son getting his hands dirty?
Good point.
I'm not clear on how detailed this project needs to be but some of the suggestions here seem quite appropriate. The five I would use are:-
1) Wines are really defined by region in France - Burgundy being the best example with its focus on Pinot Noir (Red) and Chardonnay (White). There is nothing like this in Oz unless you consider fortified wines to be restricted to Rutherglen - which does have some basis.
2) The French have a classification system for the quality of their wines. A famous example being the 1855 classification of Bordeaux. Again this does not exist in Oz, although again the Muscats of Rutherglen do have a sort of classification.
3) History. The vine has been in France far longer than Australia. Some argue over 2000 years in "France" while the first vines come to Oz with the first fleet in 1788.
4) Then there is phylloxera which was introduced into France in the 1860s and virtually wiped out French viticulture. However while the louse affected vineyards in Australia it has never been on the same level as in France.
5) en Primeur or wine futures: A practice of buying wine while still in barrel. Most famous in Bordeaux, slowly growing in other wine regions, and really in its infancy in Oz.
Mike
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cuttlefish
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Hi Saffy,
It may be interesting to note that the introduction of the screw-cap as a closure is not as well received in France as it is in Australia. Australians (the New World) are known for their ready acceptance of all things new, but the French (the Old World) are digging in their heels and continuing with cork.
Climate seems to me the biggest difference. Australia is warmer and drier than France (generally speaking, but there are always exceptions).
Also, the best areas for growing grapes in France are pretty much all planted out, but there is still many places in Australia yet to be discovered. We have a LOT more space here. On the flip side, I think the French production (pure volume) is much much higher than Australia at present.
Wine is an intrinsic part of french culture (and food, of course), whereas its not to such a degree in Australia. A typical Australian image would be beers around the BBQ, for example.
A few ideas for ya. If I think of any more, I'll post them up
It may be interesting to note that the introduction of the screw-cap as a closure is not as well received in France as it is in Australia. Australians (the New World) are known for their ready acceptance of all things new, but the French (the Old World) are digging in their heels and continuing with cork.
Climate seems to me the biggest difference. Australia is warmer and drier than France (generally speaking, but there are always exceptions).
Also, the best areas for growing grapes in France are pretty much all planted out, but there is still many places in Australia yet to be discovered. We have a LOT more space here. On the flip side, I think the French production (pure volume) is much much higher than Australia at present.
Wine is an intrinsic part of french culture (and food, of course), whereas its not to such a degree in Australia. A typical Australian image would be beers around the BBQ, for example.
A few ideas for ya. If I think of any more, I'll post them up
Smack my [insert grape type here] up !
Hi everyone and thank you all for your help.
In response to why am I doing the research? I'm not, not all of it. When he and I got stuck I elected to sign up to this forum rather than allow my son to do so as I didn't think a forum discussing wine was a place for him to be. I assisted with his research as he wasn't always able to come up with correct terminology when typing in a search string.
Since my last post he and I have collaborated our efforts and almost finished the writing and decided to go with the following topics:
- wine making
- chapterlization
- climate
- labelling
- cork vs. screw caps
now that the hard work has been done he is free to find images on these topics and make his final copy.
Once again I thank all of you who have replied and assisted me.
Saffy
In response to why am I doing the research? I'm not, not all of it. When he and I got stuck I elected to sign up to this forum rather than allow my son to do so as I didn't think a forum discussing wine was a place for him to be. I assisted with his research as he wasn't always able to come up with correct terminology when typing in a search string.
Since my last post he and I have collaborated our efforts and almost finished the writing and decided to go with the following topics:
- wine making
- chapterlization
- climate
- labelling
- cork vs. screw caps
now that the hard work has been done he is free to find images on these topics and make his final copy.
Once again I thank all of you who have replied and assisted me.
Saffy