Closures

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:39 am

G'day

The screwcap vs cork argument has been going on for a while, and a recent discussion with some people in the trade has reopened this debate for me.

I was talking to (well, drinking with) Cullen's recently departed vineyard manager, and a Margaret River winemaker, that I've been mates with for over a decade (and seen them go through their professional career changes). As I was purchaing some Cullen in 2004, the question arose as to what closure I would like to have my Diana Madeline's (the top Cab Merlot) in.

Without hesitation, I said "Screwcap, please".

This has led to an occasional debate that has been ongonig for two years now, over whether the DM under screwcap will age so slowly that I should write it into my will, as compared to the cork versions that would mature up to 20 years, corks permitting. There are also supplementary issues, like reduction under screwcap.

This year, for the 2006 DM (and chardonnay), it was all screwcap at Cullen's cellar door. I'm not at all unhappy about that, but I'm still not convinced that there might not be a better alternative closure waiting to be invented, that will allow some (to date, imperfect) ageing via the cork, versus the elimination of TCA(cork taint) for evermore.

This is also a debate I've followed for sometime in journals, but it keeps changing - hence this post.

Cheers

Allan

Jules · Post by **Jules** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:12 am

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm sure you all will), but I thought that wine aged anaerobically, in which case it should develop perfectly well as long as the closure keeps any other air out.

I think the cork vs screwcap argument will continue for the time it takes for a La Tache, or a Cheval Blanc or Latour etc to mature gracefully under one, ie 60 or 70 years (and that could be 80 or 90 years from now if the French reluctance to use screwcaps continues).

Cork has the runs on the board, but I know people who have had Clare rieslings from the early 80's which were under screwcap and they are fine.

Moreover (and again correct me if I am wrong) when Champagne and other sparklings are undergoing secondary fermentation, I believe they use a crown seal not unlike the one Chandon has released a couple of retail examples with.

So while some of these bottle rest on their lees for a considerable time before disgorgement, without a cork, it doesn't seem to be affecting the end result.

I'm sure this debate has many more years in it yet.

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:47 am

Fair comment, Jules, and I can offer supporting evidence.

A 1979 screwcapped bottle of Pewsey Vale Riesling ranks highly with my Margaret River winemaking friends (and drunk in 2000). OK, maybe it will take longer for screwcapped 'icon' wines to hit their straps , but given the anaerobic argument, I hope it won't be that much longer. At least they won't be corked :twisted:

In the meantime, I'm happy that most of the Cullen in my cellar is screwcapped.

Daryl Douglas · Post by **Daryl Douglas** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:18 am

I got turned off Cullen by the vagaries of cork seals but did get a couple of screwcapped 2004. Hopefully, the cork-sealed 99s and 01s will be fine.

As far as I understand, cork seals are supposed to be anaerobic. But as corks can dry out, shrink, bottles with corks need to be stored horizontally so the cork remains damp enough to maintain the seal. Well, hello TCA! I've been lucky to have had relatively few wines badly infected. But corks don't always seal the bottle perfectly and other than the most corked wine I've ever experienced, a Mangan 2002, I've also had randoxed chard from Cullen so it's a good move if all their wines are 100% screwcapped, perhaps except some for exports. I've had wines that had a "corky" flavour (not TCA/corked)

"Reductive" character in screwcapped wines seems to be the most frequent criticism of the seal. It also happens in cork-sealed wines and is mostly, as I understand it, the result of the use in the bottling process of what may be more sulphur-based preservative than necessary. I've gained the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that wines under screwcap need to be bottled using less of the preservative.

daz

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:07 pm

Jules wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm sure you all will), but I thought that wine aged anaerobically, in which case it should develop perfectly well as long as the closure keeps any other air out.

Wine ages aerobically. All cork, yes even the best allows air ingress into the bottle, and ROTE closures allow air ingress at about the same rate as what is thought to be the best corks. Study done from memory by the AWBC.

The biggest problem with cork (TCA aside) is that variability of ingress and hence the wide variability of the wine enclosed underneath it.

Boyeah · Post by **Boyeah** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:01 pm

The screw tops at best is the intrim measure, perhaps is ok before the new and better closure arrives, I may tolerated the screw tops but certainly,but don't prefer it.
I'm still die hard fan for cork closure, every now and then will have a tainted wine due to bad cork, that just like many things in life we all have to live with it.
Wine is something we want, not necessary we need!

Cheers
Boyeah

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:16 pm

Have a read of this article:-

http://www.provisor.com.au/uploads/docu ... h_2005.pdf

It is a pretty complex issue.

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:42 pm

I hope DCB doesn't find this thread...Hi David

Mining Man · Post by **Mining Man** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:32 pm

Boyeah wrote:The screw tops at best is the intrim measure, perhaps is ok before the new and better closure arrives, I may tolerated the screw tops but certainly,but don't prefer it.
I'm still die hard fan for cork closure, every now and then will have a tainted wine due to bad cork, that just like many things in life we all have to live with it.
Wine is something we want, not necessary we need!

Cheers
Boyeah

I'm no die-hard, but there is a romantic appeal to pulling a cork and giving it a sniff. :oops:

Maybe I'll think differently when the average bottle in my cellar is worth more than $20. :roll:

lordson · Post by **lordson** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:48 pm

i love the old-schoolness of the cork

thats probably why the french still cling on to it

but the practicality and apparent superiority of the screw-top can't be beat i reckon

Wayno · Post by **Wayno** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:39 pm

lordson wrote:i love the old-schoolness of the cork

thats probably why the french still cling on to it

but the practicality and apparent superiority of the screw-top can't be beat i reckon

Word

Mahmoud Ali · Post by **Mahmoud Ali** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:08 pm

Speaking of the French "clinging" to old ways. A couple of friends in the wine business noticed when they were in France that there were plenty of French wines in boxes, even good wines. In fact, today in their store here in Edmonton I see that they have on their shelves a 2005 Bordeaux Cru Bourgeois in a 3 liter box.

2005 is a good year for Bordeaux. The wine should age. But how to decant?

Mahmoud

Almaviva · Post by **Almaviva** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:06 pm

lordson wrote:i love the old-schoolness of the cork

Same here, to me it's like an old tradition & one that should be maintained, just my opinion

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:56 am

Personally i don't give a toss and find the cork/screwcap debate the most boring thing on the face of the planet. People need to get out more.

Corked wine for me has hardly ever raised its head. If it does I just take it back and get a replacement. Ce La Vie :lol:

Screwcap? cork? Dont care just pour me a damn glass :lol:

The Auswine Forum

Closures

Closures

This old chestnut

Re: This old chestnut