The Auswine Forum

In the thread about Yalumba Y versus HoG (quite a fun read ), there was this quote from Paradox:

I'm well aware that I prefer Bob Campbell's comments on a wine rather than Michael Cooper's but that doesn't make any of us right.

Which got me thinking, is preference of one critic over another entirely a matter of individual subjectivity, or do certain critics seem to overlap with the tastes and opinion of many more wine lovers than others? (Which would suggest they are "better" perhaps). With that thought in mind I'd be interested to hear how you'd rate the following critics vis-a-vis your palate:

Halliday
Oliver
Mattinson
Campbell
Cooper
Robinson
Parker

I was very tempted to add higher profile critics who post on this site, but I think the thread might just deteriorate! If there's someone you really trust whos not on the list I'd be interested to hear of course.

If you could score from 0-3 say, where 0 means you don't pay any attention to them as you disagree with their view way too often, to 3 - uncanny, you always seem to agree. Maybe this is a daft exercise, and wont work if only a couple of people post replies, but I'd be interested to see what people think anyway.

Cheers.
Mike

For me, the range of voices is ideal. Can't say that I align to any in particular... I've not really attempted to assess this to be honest, so won't offer any scores.

I'd trust most of them to give me a tasting note that would be useful in assessing whether to buy a tasting bottle, or perhaps a few more bottles if the price was exceptionally good. Certainly bought individual bottles off the back of, or at least supported by Halliday, Oliver and Cooper reviews.

I tend to find the drinking windows of use, though even with years of experience with particular labels, they can get some of these spectacularly wrong. Shows it not a precise science - with scores sometimes suggesting a level of precision that is highly misleading.

I'm a fan of Jeremy Oliver. I wish there was a New Zealand equivalent.

Oh, undoubtedly Geoff Kelly too; now that I think about it he quite possibly is NZ's Jeremy Oliver. Certainly they have the long drinking windows in common, which I favour.
www.geoffkellywinereviews.co.nz

I'm a little different. I have a lot of brands or labels or combinations of variety/region that I have had in the past and I've decided I like the style. So what I take from the critics is when I see a consensus among reputable reviewers whether it is the publicised ones or the forum contributors over a wine that I have enjoyed in the past I will often make a decision to seek it out or not based on whether they say it is a good example, a poor example or a great vintage. eg: I like Coonawarra Cabernet so I check the reviews for Coonawarra Cabs I know and like and if one gets good reviews across the board I'll probably buy a few based on the fact I know I like the style and people are saying this is a good example of it.

Also, if I see consensus amongst several writers/reviewers about a wine I haven't tried and the notes sound good and it's a style I think I would like then I'll give it a try. But I'm not gonna buy a variety or style I don't like just because Halliday or Mattinson give it 98 points.

They are guide, they just give you a heads up about wines that you may like.

I like the style of Jamie Goode over in the UK.........www.wineanorak.com

For me the folks of the auswine forum are the critics i listen to the most.

Aside for this i dont go out of my way to read critics opinions except with en prem bdx, where i just take an average of many opinions to take the plunge.

I do find my palate is very similar to sue courtney's though, so i do read her site a lot as she is pretty good at picking up the new. I dont buy wine mags unless im on a plane, bored and need something to read. I dont buy wine annuals or subscribe to anything.

C

Oh, undoubtedly Geoff Kelly too; now that I think about it he quite possibly is NZ's Jeremy Oliver. Certainly they have the long drinking windows in common, which I favour.

Jeff Kelly does have some brilliant analysis and has a great way of teasing out subtle strengths and weaknesses in a wine. This can be both a strength and weakness however as for the average drinker where wine is consumed not in an academic environment but a social one. Occassionally he can seem a little technocratic but this is probably just a by-product of his highly anaylitical style

I personally also find his cellar recommendations extreme to say the least, but one can easily scale to ones own palate/ cellar conditions when aware. He seems to advise the time when a wine would be on its deathbed instead of when it is at its peak (for my palate, and i would say most peoples anyway)

I quite agree with Campbell most of the time and also Gary W for that matter, broadly speaking.

Over about 20 years I've found James Halliday to be, regardless of some others' opinions, very reliable and consistent. His ratings are mostly very close to those of younger, aspiring critics with the possible exception of Oliver whose ratings I've often seen quoted and are most variable at times.

daz

I've been a fan of Halliday, but lately his palate seems to be becoming a little inconsistent (he is getting old, after all).

Oliver gives ratings to wine that strike me as completely insane - 77 for the latest d'Arenberg Adelaide Hills chardonnay - I think "Lucky Lizard" is the label - and 81 for the 2005 Hewitson Old Garden Mourvedre are two of the examples that stick in my mind. I find he tends to prefer technical perfection in winemaking over character in the finished wine and as a result I often find the wines he recommends rather dull.

fivewells wrote:For me the best one is : GARY VAYNERCHUK - USA based

ie to all who have an interest in wine, suggest you click and see this amazing wine review : site / show / and podcast, http://tv.winelibrary.com/ .

I get this daily podcast via iTunes and it has video reviews and comments daily on wines of the world ... including Aussie ones. Great search ability as well.

Bring The Thunder : is the theme and........

As Gary Vaynerchuk (the fabulous entertaining host) always says, “You, with a little bit of me… we’re changing the wine world.”, and it’s true!!!!!!!


PS : this is a link to a review some five weeks ago - where Torbreck Run Rig 2004 was tasted and absolutely heralded - it made me smile !! http://tv.winelibrary.com/2008/01/23/th ... isode-392/

If the only time you're going to post is to blatantly promote the tv wine library, then I suggest you change your tact or I'll have the moderator remove you from this forum. This isn't a free advertisement service that you can abuse.

Maximus wrote:If the only time you're going to post is to blatantly promote the tv wine library, then I suggest you change your tact or I'll have the moderator remove you from this forum. This isn't a free advertisement service that you can abuse.

I'm not sure you can "have the moderator remove you from this forum", you can ask Gavin though.

Personally I'm also getting pretty tired of the relentless promotion of a US site that has relatively little Australian wine content and wonder if there is any other reason for it other than a strange addiction to hyperbole and the manic presentation style.

Red Bigot wrote: Personally I'm also getting pretty tired of the relentless promotion of a US site that has relatively little Australian wine content and wonder if there is any other reason for it other than a strange addiction to hyperbole and the manic presentation style.

Me too. I did go and visit the site but IMO there's too much gob and piffle to make the wine content worthwhile. I just don't have the time to sift thru all that ranting rhetoric.

Plus reading his TN of wines that I do know, I don't think his opinions are going to be in anyway helpful for me to find some good new wines.

Personally I'm also getting pretty tired of the relentless promotion of a US site that has relatively little Australian wine content and wonder if there is any other reason for it other than a strange addiction to hyperbole and the manic presentation style.

style is a personal choice, if people wanna review wines hanging from the ceiling then let em go for it. and if people wanna look fine, if they dont fine

Although we all allow a bit of shameless self promotion for real contributors to the forum, it does appear it smells a bit like canned ham.

Actually I quite enjoy dropping in on the WineTV site occasionally. It's is a bit of entertainment and I am surprised how much sense many of his comments make (he constantly tells viewers to try the wines, but trust and develop their own palates, a good message in my book). I couldn't stand to watch it regularly however and as for having it podcast !

I think the problem, Fivewells is that you not only make mention of the site, EVERY one of your posts sounds like an advert for it. Maybe ease off a little and post without mentioning it, at least occasionally!

Besides, if we're talking about blatant promotion, doesn't Helen Clark have Craig on the payroll !

As for critics (the original topic, remember?) I believe most have their place in my selection process, providing I have become used to their particular style and likes. It's telling that I read tasting notes from most occasionally, but I read the posts on this site daily. If someone recommends or praises something you can check back to see what else they have liked and if their taste accords with yours. This is a marvellous place to get suggestions from people (and palates) you can get used to and trust. For me, that's the key to taking on board any critic's comments.

Cheers,

Mark

Gary W, Auswine panel, Ric and everybody else on this site who post there sunday tasting notes.

I've also found that GW's TN's are often close to my opinons of some of my preferred varieties.

The only person I trust is me... I haven't found anyone that I can say I am aligned with in terms of similar tastes and likes. The closest I come to on the points fron (for those who rate with points) is GW at Winorama.

But at the end of the day I'm not a consumer that picks a bottle because someone rated it.

Have to agree that GW seems quite on the money most times IMO. But the big "MyOpinion" stands the to be the best critic in the end.

"But at the end of the day I'm not a consumer that picks a bottle because someone rated it."

Hi Matthew.

So how do you decide to buy a new wine?

Not trying to be argumentative but there are 2000+ wineries out there making about 15000 different wines according to JH. How do you decide to buy something different? You must have some way of deciding what new to try otherwise you'd drink the same wines all the time. I just can't believe that if you saw 5 super positive reviews for a new wine from 5 reputable critics you wouldn't want to try that wine.

I haven't got access to 100's of tastings and I can't afford to buy 2 dozen single bottles to work out which 3 I like before buying those. That's where the critics come in for me. They can narrow that 2 dozen down to 5-6.

Ratcatcher wrote:"But at the end of the day I'm not a consumer that picks a bottle because someone rated it."

Hi Matthew.

So how do you decide to buy a new wine?

Not trying to be argumentative but there are 2000+ wineries out there making about 15000 different wines according to JH. How do you decide to buy something different? You must have some way of deciding what new to try otherwise you'd drink the same wines all the time. I just can't believe that if you saw 5 super positive reviews for a new wine from 5 reputable critics you wouldn't want to try that wine.

I haven't got access to 100's of tastings and I can't afford to buy 2 dozen single bottles to work out which 3 I like before buying those. That's where the critics come in for me. They can narrow that 2 dozen down to 5-6.

Exactly!

I've set myself a max. limit of $20-$25 for generally well-regarded wines but when broad-based critical opinion indicates a wine of apparently exceptional quality, I'll lash out and get several, or at least a couple, of bottles for later. Some such in perhaps the last year have been St Henri 02, Cullen DM 04 and most recently Voyager Cab/Merl 04. I do have an abiding interest in Tahbilk 1860s vine so when a bottle of the better vintages are offered in a Chairman's Selection by the wine club I'll buy - it's the only $100+ wine I'm prepared to pay that price for.

Incidentally, I opened a bottle of Tahbilk Shiraz 02 later last night and had a glass immediately after opening - it was a bit all over the place, acid sticking out on the finish. Left the bottle in the fridge overnight and tried it again tonight. There's still some acid but the savoury, plummy fruit, some herb, emerges with a bit more time in the glass, accompanied by some attractive coffee/oak notes and talc-soft tannin on the finish with still a bit of acid. Best $8 shiraz I've ever tasted . I've hammered this wine at the price but will have to restrain myself from quaffing the last couple of bottles until at least 2012 when it should be fully mature but last a long time after then.

Cheers

daz

For me it's sometimes quite random when buying at bottle shops. Pick a bottle or two and then I sometimes look for reviews or tasting notes on the net after the first glass. And, you'd be suprised at how many wines aren't reviewed and you can't find tasting notes for. So if I purely relied on a positive review to buy a wine then I'd never try a lot of wines. But most of my wine buying is done at the cellar door. So I do get a chance to taste it before buying. I am about 10 minutes away from the Barossa and this is my favourite region and dominates my cellar so I have easy access to try wines. For those who are further away then I can see where critics come in. But I don't purely rely on the critics opionion and am willing to buy a wine even if it doesn't have a 4.5 star or 93 point placard next to the price on the shelf.

I did suspect you must have access to tastings but I didn't think of getting in the car and driving to the winery. I should have looked at your location.

Not an option for me. I'm not a big Pinot fan so reds are limited in Tas to a couple of wineries and only about 2 out of every 5 years and even then I think they must have cellar time.

No big retail tastings here in Tas either. The few that are held either cost you or expect that you will be buying a few bottles at top dollar.

Ratcatcher wrote:Not an option for me. I'm not a big Pinot fan so reds are limited in Tas to a couple of wineries and only about 2 out of every 5 years and even then I think they must have cellar time.

No big retail tastings here in Tas either. The few that are held either cost you or expect that you will be buying a few bottles at top dollar.

Hmmm. You can get yourself to the Taste every Christmas and get to sample a wide range of wines for free (unlike last weekend's NSW Wine Week affair in Sydney's Hyde Park). I'll concede that there's not a vast range of cabernet on offer (and sweet fa shiraz), but still, it's a pretty decent selection of wines - and lots of these pinots really are good.
After Adelaide and Melbourne, Hobart's the capital best served for nearby decent cellar doors, I reckon.
I'll concede that out-of-state wines present more of a challenge, however
Graeme

if we're talking about blatant promotion, doesn't Helen Clark have Craig on the payroll

hmm not quite sure where you are getting at with that comment. what has helen clark got to do with wine critics??

Craig, that comment accompanied the discussion of promoting the WineTV site, and was an "off the cuff" remark, a poor attempt at lightening the tone.
The suggestion of a bias (your promotion of NZ wines) wasn't really serious. Hence the smiley. I could have had a dig at the bigots, but they're bigger (and closer) than you!

Like I said, I use the posts on this site (including, I have to admit, your own) to give me direction for my purchases. For example, just as I was starting to get into Chardonnays (I'm a late starter, not an early adopter) you mentioned Kumeu River, I tried it and now now I'm a buyer.

Just jealous 'cause you're near the best flyfishing!

Back on the topic, I really like my $20ish wines, but I personally don't want to keep buying wines at this price on the off chance I might think they're worth the outlay, only to be very disappointed much of the time. So using this forum to get a range of suggestions and looking for similarities and consensus from people who have suggested wines I've enjoyed previously is an enormous assistance.

Cheers,

Mark

The suggestion of a bias (your promotion of NZ wines) wasn't really serious. Hence the smiley. I could have had a dig at the bigots, but they're bigger (and closer) than you!

hey thats fine, i give plenty of stick to the aussies too. if you give it you have to be prepared to take it

Craig(NZ) wrote:

silkwood wrote:The suggestion of a bias (your promotion of NZ wines) wasn't really serious. Hence the smiley. I could have had a dig at the bigots, but they're bigger (and closer) than you!

hey thats fine, i give plenty of stick to the aussies too. if you give it you have to be prepared to take it

Hey Craig, can you please work out how to leave in the name of the person making the quote, it's not that hard, even for a NZ'er.

(Just a small bit of stick )

Mark, no worries, I'm old and toothless now, if it wasn't for the red wine on the muesli in the morning I'd never get out of bed. Ric would do a lot of damage if he fell on you, but he could never catch you anyway.