The Auswine Forum

At $13 a bottle, a lovely Clare shiraz, with a dab of Viognier, just enough to soften and round the tannins, this just is the ultimate quaffer right now, and just maybe with a few years in the cellar, might evolve into a cult wine.

Even the label is fresh, and delightful.

91/100 very food friendly, and packed with quality Clare fruit, a dash of pepper, and soft finish.

Really! I will try them tomorrow then.
GW

It got a double gold at the 2007 San Francisco International Wine Show.

John #11 wrote:It got a double gold at the 2007 San Francisco International Wine Show.

So did the 2006 Jim Barry Silly Mid On ......

Shiraz / Viognier really is the in thing it seems. I've nothing against it, and this one sounds a good deal, I just wonder why this particular grape combination has found such favour over other potential combos. Presumably adding a dollop of viognier to other red varieties just doesn't work? You don't see Cab Sauv / Viognier do you, but presumably it would have the same "softening" effect.

awaits rolly eyes

Bick wrote:Shiraz / Viognier really is the in thing it seems. I've nothing against it,

awaits rolly eyes

OK, couldn't resist.

FWIW I think most of the S-V blends on the market are an abomination, I want my shiraz to taste of black cherries, red plums, and/or other black/red fruits like shiraz! I don't want a red wine tasting and smelling of apricots or dried apples. Only a few makers seem to achieve the desired textural and colour lift without introducing overt viognier flavours.

I've got to agree here - I'm yet to find a Shiraz Viognier that I am fond of. I personally find the nose quite off putting....

Mind you, perhaps my opinion has been somewhat affected by drinking a few bad examples of the blend.

Red Bigot wrote:FWIW I think most of the S-V blends on the market are an abomination....

Gravymaker wrote:I've got to agree here - I'm yet to find a Shiraz Viognier that I am fond of. I personally find the nose quite off putting....

Would you say Clonakilla and Runrig are exceptions to the rule, or do you not fancy them either? I'm interested, because I've had neither yet, and they're costly!

Bick wrote:

Red Bigot wrote:FWIW I think most of the S-V blends on the market are an abomination....

Gravymaker wrote:I've got to agree here - I'm yet to find a Shiraz Viognier that I am fond of. I personally find the nose quite off putting....

Would you say Clonakilla and Runrig are exceptions to the rule, or do you not fancy them either? I'm interested, because I've had neither yet, and they're costly!

Possibly, I have a few of the Clonakilla's but don't rate them as highly as many others do, did have a few RunRig 2002 but sold most of them off at auction (at a loss), I don't think RunRig is worth the price, I now have zero Torbreck in my cellar. The only other S/V I have in my cellar is Yering Station Reserve, a richer style that I enjoy in good vintages, the 2002 is going strong still, 2003 a bit disjointed and showing the viognier, 2005 looking good.

Red Bigot wrote:

Bick wrote:

Red Bigot wrote:FWIW I think most of the S-V blends on the market are an abomination....

Gravymaker wrote:I've got to agree here - I'm yet to find a Shiraz Viognier that I am fond of. I personally find the nose quite off putting....

Would you say Clonakilla and Runrig are exceptions to the rule, or do you not fancy them either? I'm interested, because I've had neither yet, and they're costly!

Possibly, I have a few of the Clonakilla's but don't rate them as highly as many others do, did have a few RunRig 2002 but sold most of them off at auction (at a loss), I don't think RunRig is worth the price, I now have zero Torbreck in my cellar. The only other S/V I have in my cellar is Yering Station Reserve, a richer style that I enjoy in good vintages, the 2002 is going strong still, 2003 a bit disjointed and showing the viognier, 2005 looking good.

I tried both Torbreck SVs - from memory I wasn't particularly fond of either but I preferred the Descendant (which is co-fermented rather than blended). At least I think I preferred it - Torbreck was at the blurry end of a tour...

I haven't tried the Clonakilla - it may be the one that saves the blend for me...

Bick wrote:Shiraz / Viognier really is the in thing it seems. I've nothing against it, and this one sounds a good deal, I just wonder why this particular grape combination has found such favour over other potential combos. Presumably adding a dollop of viognier to other red varieties just doesn't work? You don't see Cab Sauv / Viognier do you, but presumably it would have the same "softening" effect.

awaits rolly eyes

[rolly eyes] Well, it's only a local version of the 'traditional' Cote Rotie red; it's not as though imaginative locals invented it...
cheers,
Graeme

Bick wrote:Shiraz / Viognier really is the in thing it seems. I've nothing against it, and this one sounds a good deal, I just wonder why this particular grape combination has found such favour over other potential combos. Presumably adding a dollop of viognier to other red varieties just doesn't work? You don't see Cab Sauv / Viognier do you, but presumably it would have the same "softening" effect.

awaits rolly eyes

For the most part I'm in agreement with Brian here, who nails my generally negative thoughts of these blends pretty well - one thing I will add is that I have my reservations about Viognier having any softening effect on the Shiraz, if anything I suspect the opposite.

Too often, as well as the sickly apricot characters I have also noticed many times razor-fine but very harsh tannins in these wines - that's the Viognier too.

I've had my suspicions for a while some winemakers have been using Viognier to try and add structure to low quality Shiraz fruit from very young/irrigated vines, particularly during the grape glut.

If that's the case, can you imagine adding this floral, tannic beast to something that's as tannic as Cabernet Sauvignon to begin with? It will give it a nice, vivid purple colour though.

Cheers,
Ian

n4sir wrote:If that's the case, can you imagine adding this floral, tannic beast to something that's as tannic as Cabernet Sauvignon to begin with? It will give it a nice, vivid purple colour though.

Cheers,
Ian

If Cabernet actually has the precursor compounds to form co-pigments ....

As for Shiraz Viognier blends why isn't there more Shiraz Marsanne blends?

In the Hermitage Appellation you are permitted to add up to and sometimes above 15% if you so wish.

Cote Rotie is so overrated and when you really look at the top wines apart from Guigal which is a story unto itself, the majority of the wines are 100% Syrah anyway

Go figure!

I disagree that Cote Rotie is overrated.

Sure, the Guigal LaLa's own their own stratosphere and they have the stratospheric prices to go along..

but I've spoken personally to many winemakers from the region who acknowledge that even though the wines might be listed as 100% syrah, many will have up to 4% of viognier in the final blends.

Just from memory, and I might not be entirely correct but some producers include Rene Rostaing who does a lovely Cote Rotie Cote Blonde, Delas Freres,,, Chapoutier does a few too although they're out of my price bracket to have the opportunity to drink them.

Shiraz viognier blends (done well) are wines I enjoy a great deal. This is old ground, but I would argue that the best blends are based on co-fermentation for colour brightening and fixing, as well as giving a lift to existing characters of the shiraz on the nose. I don't like these wines to go to the point of dominant apricot, but when well-handled (like in Clonakilla's wines, Ravensworth, etc) the range of 1%-8% viognier in the blend can work well. Again, as has been already noted, many of the apricot and blossom florals that people knock in shiraz viognier can also be present in straight shiraz.

It is fashionable to knock the blend - whether for detectable apricot or a more general anxiety over the assumed 'unmanly' blending of red and white grapes. Personally, there is such a world of red-white blending (chianti, nebbiolo, some Riojan wines, Cote Rotie, etc) that ruling this kind of thing out of your taste preferences seems a bit narrow-minded to me.

pstarr wrote:It is fashionable to knock the blend - whether for detectable apricot or a more general anxiety over the assumed 'unmanly' blending of red and white grapes. Personally, there is such a world of red-white blending (chianti, nebbiolo, some Riojan wines, Cote Rotie, etc) that ruling this kind of thing out of your taste preferences seems a bit narrow-minded to me.

I obviously don't care about fashion or being called narrow-minded , but I do know what I like and don't like and I try very hard to drink wines I like rather than those I don't. It really is as simple as that.

BTW, griff took me to task for including the Shaw & Smith Shiraz 2005 on my Shiraz "possible buy" list. This wine has some viognier in it, but in this vintage it's not overt. I didn't like and didn't buy the much-lauded 2004, but 2005 seems to hit the spot more for me, it probably won't get to the top of the buy list though.