The Auswine Forum

Hi there.

I thought posting this would be worth a shot...

Does anyone know where I can purchase the Bremerton Old Adam Shiraz 2004?

Have tried so many places here in Sydney as well as the vineyard and they have all sold out (the vineyard sold out yesterday )

If you know someone who has it in stock then please let me know.

Thanks!

Wouldn't have anything to do with coming second equal with Grange recently would it???

Cheers, Glen

Oh of course not

at least we can open this one and drink it without feeling naughty

Why Bother? Sure try it if it falls in your hand, but I am certainly not going hunting for it. There's been lots of wines rate as good or better than Grange over the years and this wont be the last one. Is it better value? Lots of wines are. Is it as good? Crack them both today and it might be, but who buys current release Grange to drink today? Grange will improve and improve for probably 30 years+ from as its rated today which isnt saying that the Bremerton is not a goodie but I think this is where points can be deceptive. How many people I know who know that I enjoy wine that have come and said to me, This wine; its better than Grange, Its a tad the price and every bit as good, I read it in the paper

Full credit to the winery if they dont jack the price up.

God hasn't the feeding frenzy started on this. A bloke I know with a passing interest in wine is searching all over the place for it and is planning on buying a couple of cases if he finds it.

I say why not look at some of the 95 & 96 point wines? You may even like them better. It's just one man who thinks this is 1 point better than all those 96 point wines.

If everyone is so eager to buy this because it got the same score as Grange and HoG then why isn't there a clamour to buy up all the $25 wines that got 96 points???

All I can say is remember the 1997 Abercorn Shiraz. 97 points at the time and where is it now?


Having said that I didn't mind this wine when I had it. Good to see Langhorne on the label of a highly regarded wine as it is often left off by the big boys.

cheers

Carl

Ratcatcher wrote:If everyone is so eager to buy this because it got the same score as Grange and HoG then why isn't there a clamour to buy up all the $25 wines that got 96 points???

Ratty,

The answer is obvious. If there is a 1 point difference it is not as good as Grange and HoG.

....... reminds me of the old advert, "but is it as good as Bushells?"

Ratcatcher wrote:I say why not look at some of the 95 & 96 point wines? You may even like them better. It's just one man who thinks this is 1 point better than all those 96 point wines.

If everyone is so eager to buy this because it got the same score as Grange and HoG then why isn't there a clamour to buy up all the $25 wines that got 96 points???

I'm happy enough to have ordered some Capel Vale MR cab 05. JH 96/100, $20. Realistically though some other critics would possibly rate it lower - I'll form my own opinion when I try it.

Cheers

daz

Hi Daryl,

Tried this wine last week after reading the 96/100 JH. Very ordinary, I would have given it a 89/100. I like a smooth easy drinking good quality wine. I was very dissapointed. Just my opinion, you may love it!

Cheers
Leigh

Leigh wrote:Hi Daryl,

Tried this wine last week after reading the 96/100 JH. Very ordinary, I would have given it a 89/100. I like a smooth easy drinking good quality wine. I was very dissapointed. Just my opinion, you may love it!

Cheers
Leigh

I'll try it next week and post a TN.

Cheers

daz

I am looking for a bottle too!
I was reminded on the weekend, by a bottle shop employee; the Old Adam has been out for a while.
Plenty of other wines in JH around the 95/96 points, I am working my way through some of these.

Just don't know how successful this points trawling is. I suppose it's worth a try, initially at least, but having gone down this path before, I found very quickly what a waste of money it can be as his points are so subjective.

Is it because the Old Adam is bolded along with HOG and Grange in his book, on 97 points? What about the stack of 96ers below? Are they all racing out of cellar doors and megamarkets? Saying Old Adam is comparable to Grange, both on 97, is a bit like saying Grange 2000 (87? points JO) is comparable to Jacobs Creek Merlot (87? points JO - same edition). They're not. I'm sure a number of other comparative examples could be found in Halliday's current edition.

Whilst I doubt Grange is ten times as impressive as the Old Adam, it's surely in a different league, on a number of levels.

Points are misleading, deceptive and extract the mystery, character and subjective life out of the world of wine. They turn it all over to points-chasing for points-chasing's sake and prevent many people from trying and learning for themselves what they like. I am tired of retailers hawking Halliday scores for this and Mattinson scores for that. For many it's a guide but for many it's distracting as well.

In (part) defence, I have used critics' opinions in deciding what auction wines are worth considering, especially for the older vintages. If a number of critics' assessments seem to correlate then I take it as a fair sign that someone's made something pretty good but admittedly am more interested in their considered write-up of the wine, not necessarily the points. Halliday's book has lost the emphasis on detailed notes due to size constraints and has become a lot more of a points love-fest than I think it once was. He is our Parker but without the edge.

I know this is a hoary old chestnut of a topic but worth a quick blurt.
Rant over.

but if there is no points given, how do i know what wines i like?

boom tish *

Daryl Douglas wrote: I'm happy enough to have ordered some Capel Vale MR cab 05. JH 96/100, $20.

Cheers

daz

Tried this at the Perth Food and Wine Fair a few weeks back and bought a few on the strength of it before all the JH kerfuffle. I can see the headlines now "Heresy: Man Buys Wine Because He Likes It" Jeepers!

Cheers

Dave

When I first started collecting on a modest budget I raced through JH's bible buying wines purely on his points. Big mistake. Although I agree with some of his comments all he provides is opinion.

I had the good fortune of trying the 02 Grange and it is not a 97 pointer......in my opinion. I had it alongside a 05 Tatiarra Pressings and at a tenth the price I bought 6 Tat's. The Pressings hasn't been around for very long but it's made by the master Ben Riggs from vines grown in a SINGLE VINEYARD (not a mish mash) on ancient Heathcote Cambrian soil so I'm willing to part with $300 for 6. Time will tell. I also tried the new release Clarendon Hills range and they too impressed me more.

In regards to wine critics, what also opened my eyes was J Oliver rating Domonique Portet's 2004 Heathcote Shiraz a 77/100. For one, I've had it and it's a low 90's wine, for mine. Two, Portet's rep speaks for itself and three, Portet could take gravel and still make a wine better than 85 points let alone 77.

And Wayno, I too am sick to death of retailers with no balls reeling off scores and quotes from the experts like Sesame St puppets. The experts are providing opinions and that is the beauty of wine and this forum, we seek opinions. If you're a retailer and you really care get out from behind you're counter and talk to the customer and learn their preferences. Don't send out newsletters with JH quotes all over it. I've got the bloody book. I get it every Father's Day. This year a little earlier I must admit.

I now won't buy any bottles for my cellar regardless of price before trying one first. In my infancy my cellar now has bottles I now will be alright but not completely satisfying. I'll be steered towards a particular bottle because let's face it if it got 94, 95, 96 or 97points it can't be vinegar but whether it's to my liking enough to add a 6 pack to the cellar is another question. I've sussed all the well known critics out and compared their preferences to mine and now have a better idea on who I trust and who just waffles and plagiarises others. And this way I'll fill my cellar slower but with more satisfaction.

The best advise I can give to any novice? Find an independent retailer (not a UDL can pusher) who has time to want to learn your tastes and preferences and keep you as a regular client. Someone who offers opinion but never pushes. And you reward him by buying from him. If the puppet you found thinks his time is better served selling VB to the bogans than walk away. I found my 'wine haunt' and I haven't put a foot wrong since. After all, that's how I had the opportunity to try the 02 Grange and the new release Clarendon Hills range. 2004 Hickinbotham.....Holy Moly!!!

Oh, and if you want to spend a bit on a ripper, spend $220 and buy 2 Torbreck Run Rigs from 160 year old vines. At least with the Run Rig you're paying for history and an absolute ripping wine.

Just Dr - 307's opinion.......don't forget.

Smart words Doc...... and welcome to the forum.

I tried the wine a couple of months back, and found it to be far too minty for my liking. Many wines from Langhorn have a real mintyness to them that I find very distractive. Buy the Grange instead

Cheers Ric.

Tell me, what is it that makes the Grange so special in many peoples minds. On the way home from tasting the 02 it only then dawned on me that I was trying a bottle that retails for $500 but while I was tasting it it didn't impress. I was so suprised it got 97.

You have far more experience than me. Please enlighten me. Not so long ago it was retailing for under 100 bucks.

Dr - 307.

diminishing returns and the fact you pay for a label. supply and demand bla bla...all the usual reasons

everyone buys the odd wine without reference to value for money. i have no issue with that. imagine if we didnt how boring cellars would be??

any fool can buy a good expensive wine though. takes more to find you own star

Exactly.

Dr - 307 wrote:In regards to wine critics, what also opened my eyes was J Oliver rating Domonique Portet's 2004 Heathcote Shiraz a 77/100. For one, I've had it and it's a low 90's wine, for mine. Two, Portet's rep speaks for itself and three, Portet could take gravel and still make a wine better than 85 points let alone 77.

I wondered at that too, most likely a dud bottle but without an overt fault to pick on. That being said, the 2001 DP Heathcote shiraz didn't develop too well and I don't like the 2003 much at present either. I haven't tried the 2004, but with only the 2002 still impressing me from 3 vintages, I'm in no hurry to try it either.

You have commented on an interesting range of wines, I think we can see where your palate preferences lie.

"You have commented on an interesting range of wines, I think we can see where your palate preferences lie".

I don't understand. Good, bad, are you referring to where I buy. Please elaborate.

Dr - 307 wrote:"You have commented on an interesting range of wines, I think we can see where your palate preferences lie".

I don't understand. Good, bad, are you referring to where I buy. Please elaborate.

Nothing negative implied, but expressing a big preference for the top-end Ben Riggs wines, Torbreck RunRig and Clarendon Hills and not being impressed by the hype of Grange says quite a lot about your palate preferences (and buying budget). BTW, if you can get 2 Run Rig for $220 than you really are buying well, even at auction the 2002 is around $180++ and the 2004 is $200+ at retail.

Personally, I think both the Bens are doing great stuff, but seem to be spreading themselves a bit thin, resulting in a few ordinary results, particularly in some of the lower end wines and a feeling of (too much, maybe even boring) formula similarity in the various McLarenVale labels that Ben Riggs is involved with.

Again, personally, I've been dabbling with some of the Tatiarras and have been reasonably impressed, I've not found many of the Clarendon Hills wines I've tried worthy of the hype or price and haven't bought Grange since the 96 vintage. I have just finished clearing the few remaining Torbrecks from my cellar, they produce some sublime wines, but are too variable and mostly don't pass my QPR test.

I think you can probably get a good idea of my personal preferences by looking at what I've bought this year so far: http://redbigot.info/RBG.htm#Wine

By the way, has anyone else seen what the 2004 Old Adam has been getting on eBay lately?

The last two bottles I watched went for $163.50 & $200+

That's just crazy - no wonder people are asking where they can get hold of some.

Cheers,
Ian

In the summer of 2005 I was in Mt. Gambier (family leg of X-Mas trip) and Coonawarra (daddy leg and real reason we went to Mt. Gambier) and was having a beautiful fillet mignon at the Barn Steakhouse along with Ben's Zonte' SV. I loved it. Then my palate was still on the sweeter side. Now, I've passed on my Zonte's to my friend who I've introduced to wine and he also in his infancy loves them. Too much viognier for me.

I like Ben's style of big, juicy, ripe reds. Not over ripe and 16, 17 and 18% monsters like Wirrabilla. It's all about balance. And I'm not one to sit there and describe every aroma and taste. For me it's about the whole thing and how it comes together from start to finish. Initial impressions, color, body, the way it swirls and tears, suppleness in the mouth and length of finish. To me high alcohol (15.5%) is fine as long as there is balance. I've had nasty wines at 14% with only alcohol on the nose. I don't even look at the alcohol level unless there is something strange.

Ben definitely does balance very well but I do agree about both Bens being stretched a bit too thin. Their lower end stuff I now bypass and I mean under $20. Glaetzers Bishop to me is excellent value and quality. Rigg's Footprint, Tatiarra's, Mr Riggs Shiraz and SV are great. I've also met him personally and he's a really good bloke and very approachable.

Then again my experience in the wine industry has been pretty good apart from the pompous fool in the Yarra Valley who labels his wines with No.s only.

2004 Clarendon Hills Cabernet is awesome. $100 I know but better 5 of them than one mish mashed, overhyped wine.

Talking of helpful folk some bloke with your same initials steered me towards an excellent cellar database program. If you see him, tell him I said thanks. It's brilliant.

RB, I like the tips to the e-tailers. Here's another DON'T!!!




RB, big list of wines by the way. Tell me your thoughts on 04 Katnook Cab and 04 Vasse Felix Cab.

Dr - 307.

Ah, that tells me you are probably in Melbourne and had a bad experience with a certain e-tailer.

As you are no doubt aware there is no single e-tailer or retailer who always has the best availability or price on a wine. Some people are happy to pay a little extra for availability, access to scarce wines and good service and/or freight-inclusive prices to more distant locations. And don't forget that frequent buyers get extra discounts over the published prices.

Re Katnook Cabernet 2004 - a good servicable cabernet in a bigger style, not definitively classic Coonawarra in this vintage, but good value at just under $30 and will cellar for 10+ years.

Re Vasse Felix Cabernet 2004 - not a bad wine, but just failed to impress enough to get a buy rating from me.

Melbourne is correct.

I loved the Vasse.

What in your opinion is a good $30 Cab from a good, current vintage. By the way 2004 Bin 407.....not for mine.

Dr - 307 wrote:Melbourne is correct.

.

Sounds like they had a policy in place for in store pickups to subsidise their offer of free shipping and you thought it shouldn't apply to you....nothing to bag them for on a public forum.

Or you'll end up sounding like Oscar the Grouch.