Glassware does make a difference (longish)

707 · Post by **707** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:28 am

For most of my drinking life I've used the XL5 glass for tastings and drinking at home. I used to think Reidel glasses were a bit wanky and people going on about how much better wine showed in Reidels were wankers themselves.

About five years ago I started using a mix of XL5 and Reidels for general home consumption, depending on whether I'd again broken a stem off the Reidel! More recently I've only used Reidels because I now believe most wines look alot better in bigger glassware.

Two nights ago I'd written a TN on a particular Shiraz that I wanted a number of people to try and e-mailed it to them. The wine is very dark, powerful nose and rich palate.

Last night I had a great demonstration of the value of good glassware. I took the said Shiraz to three seperate friends houses to show them the wine. They'd all read the TN and looked forward to trying it. This is not a Three Little Pigs story either!

The first house used Reidels and when we tried the wine, it was as I'd described (it was under screw cap so obviously it was the same!). No problems here, they loved it.

The second house used XL5s and the wine didn't look as dark, the nose and palate were less potent than at the other house a half hour before. Whilst I was less than enthusiastic about how it looked, I didn't say anything but these guys were in raptures over it and said how it was just like my enthusiastic TN. They obviously have their palates tuned to XL5s and have yet to discover the extra dimensions of large glassware.

I arrive at the third house a little worried about how the wine was now looking. Out come Reidel lookalikes and the wine is back to all it's glory again!

I've never had such a demonstration of how much glassware can affect a wine. Needless to say the XL5s have been relegated forever at home and when dining. They are however an unfortunate fact of life at many tastings due to room on the table constraints.

I'm now wondering if alot of differing opinions about the same wine drunk by people in different locations is in part due to glassware?

winetastic · Post by **winetastic** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:41 am

I certainly agree that glassware makes a difference, the first time I did a side by side comparison with my riedel clone vs an ISO tasting glass I was convinced.

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:51 am

Steve

I used INAO glasses for many years, and as they broke I replaced them with a Riedel Vinum look-a-like for home use by guests, but I always kept one INOA (essentially an ISO glass) that I used. The Vinum subs have proven very diffiult to keep clean - a problem with the water here in SoCal. I recently bought some Vinum Chardonnay and Bordeaux (at less than $10USD a stem on sale) for everyday drinking. I've tasted alot of different wines in these different glasses and often the INAO does the best, other times its the Vinums. I have not really tried to work out what the differences are, but if a wine seems closed or subdued in one glasss then I will go to the other just to be sure.

One thing is for sure when we have our next wine dinner I'll be ready with a bunch of the 10 1/2 oz INAOs. At $3USD each who cares how many the drunken fools break!

EDIT: Murray Almond did a litle article for SueNZ's Wine of the Week called Are Real Riedel Glasses for Real? One comment he made was "In all cases the ISO Tasting Glass came out second or third in ranking. "

Mike

n4sir · Post by **n4sir** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:20 pm

I agree with the general points in this discussion - wines can certainly look a lot better in a bigger Reidel (style) glass than an XL5, but I think both have their uses.

I think one major advantage the XL5 does have is that it's easier to pick up wine faults, and because of that I suspect it's a great glass for mass-tastings of wines where ruthless assessments and quick decisions are needed.

At home with friends or at dinners I prefer the bigger glasses though, as they really do tend to show a wine off much better. These situations are less to do with testing the wine (under time/volume constraints) and more to do with genuinely enjoying every moment of it.

Cheers,
Ian

Gary W · Post by **Gary W** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:42 pm

I tend to use XL5 for general tasting at the office and the like - but try to not use them for Pinot. You can get a lot out of the nose with a fairly small pour with XL5. Drinking/Tasting at home I use things that look a bit like chianti glasses - they are Riedel but from the restaurant range and only available commercially. Excellent all purpose glasses.

For drinking wines I tend to use Riedel Shiraz/Bordeaux/Pinot/Montrachet etc. They improve most wines quite dramatically as you say.

Main thing really is to be fairly consistent with the glasses you use (if tasting for analysis rather than pleasure)...which is why I don't mind the XL5 generally. I also have a theory that wines taste a bit different in air conditioned premises than they do in natural surrounds. I also don't ever like to taste until at least afternoon as I think I suffer from 'morning palate'.... so many variables..

Shadrach · Post by **Shadrach** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:47 pm

If you ever get the chance to do a Reidel master class you will certainly notice the difference between their glasses and other inferior and smaller glasses. It is quite an intriguing story how Reidel got started as their workmen would gather at the end of the day and drink wine from any different shaped glasses that were available in the kitchen. Some guys thought a wine was great drinking it from a certain glass whilst others thought the same wine was average, drinking it from a different glass.........and so the different glasses for different wines idea was born. The most striking of all is with pinot noir. I have always found that XL5s are useless for pinots and the same wines open up incredibly if put into a larger vessel. (not necessarily Reidel) You will never pick up the layering of aromas of pinot bouquets in an XL5. There are some great Reidel look-a-likes available for $5 - $15 per glass and they are generally far more robust! Too many Reidels have gone west at 2am in the morning, when people should never attempt the washing up, for me to buy any more. :cry:

SueNZ · Post by **SueNZ** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:53 pm

I quite like the Zerrutti Ultimo tasting glasses. They seem quite robust, too. Some of the Riedels seem to have such fragile stems.

Sharkey · Post by **Sharkey** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:49 am

SueNZ wrote:Some of the Riedels seem to have such fragile stems.

I have been using Riedel Os lately and I have to say I like them for everyday use. No stem, so that gets around that problem and they fit in the dishwasher easily.

They are also pretty good for single malt scotch.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:35 am

Sharkey wrote:
SueNZ wrote:Some of the Riedels seem to have such fragile stems.

I have been using Riedel Os lately and I have to say I like them for everyday use. No stem, so that gets around that problem and they fit in the dishwasher easily.

They are also pretty good for single malt scotch.

I saw some clones of a couple of the O series at a homewares store yesterday, they didn't look all that attractive though.

tpang · Post by **tpang** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:22 pm

I've got the Riedel Sommelier Bordeaux for my own drinking purposes, and use the O's for guests. Recently got hold of some Riedel Grape Cab Sauv, Pinot Noir, Chardonny and Sauv Blanc too from the Masterclass that Georg Riedel conducted last week.

Do you guys think that the Riedel shiraz were designed with cote rotie syrah in mind? I'm wondering whether the bigger luscious barossan shiraz would be better off in a CdP glass.... any opinions?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:55 pm

Do you guys think that the Riedel shiraz were designed with cote rotie syrah in mind? I'm wondering whether the bigger luscious barossan shiraz would be better off in a CdP glass.... any opinions?

Hi, I know that the Vinum Shiraz glass was designed for Barrossa Shiraz, it is the Hermitage Glass which is for Cote Rotie Style.

Spiegelau also make great glasses which are more economical that Riedel!

Cheers

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:14 pm

I firmly believe that the aroma of the wine is magnified and improved in a Riedel glass and the experience of drinking from them improves the experience/ambience visa vie ordinary glasses, however I can not see how the Riedel glasses can improve the taste of the wine. I also don't believe the Riedel mumbo jumbo marketing blurb about delivering the wine to the right spot on the palate.

Glen · Post by **Glen** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:19 pm

I also don't believe the Riedel mumbo jumbo marketing blurb about delivering the wine to the right spot on the palate.

Totally agree.

Since Richard Gawel debunked the Tongue Taste Map:-

http://www.aromadictionary.com/articles/tonguemap_article.html

which has been supported by various other articles that I have seen, it is very difficult to really believe the Reidel spin. Perhaps the most obvious evidence for me though is personal experience that does not support the claims.

I think the amount of wine entering the mouth is the major factor in aroma volatisation, too little or too much really has a noticable effect, and the arc of the glass could quite possibly determine this to a degree.

Steve, I am shocked to hear you say that you have used ISO's for drinking, I personally can't stand the damn things for that purpose.

Ian, the absolute top glass for aroma and fault assessment is the L'Impitoyable, google and you will see.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:14 pm

Of all the stupid wine geek ceremony and pompus song, glasses is the one I am warmest towards.

glasses make a difference. Why that is who knows, I sure dont need that answered

A good wine is always better out of a good glass on a good occassion with good company, good food bla bla