The Auswine Forum

I commenced collecting wine about 5 years ago, and found it to be a "disease" more infectious than the common cold.

Initially I stored the wines (mainly purchased from Cellarmaster) in a bedroom cupboard, only to find the summer temperatures in the house (even here in paradise - Central Coast NSW) reached over 25 degrees centigrade.

Whilst the wines that I had purchased to date had been agreeable, the disease had its hold and off in search of the bottle shops I went. The number and value of bottles increased and given my concern of the high summer temperatures I purchased a Kitchener Wine Cellar (it struggles to keep the temperature during summer to under 18 degrees, but better than 25 plus). Alas, storage capacity has long run out and the overflow of wines continues to grow.

Rather than purchasing another wine cellar, I am considering air-conditioning a small room within the house, but from what I have read air-conditioning extracts humidity from the air and dries out the cork. Also in one of TORB's articles there is a comment that good structured wine is reasonably forgiving and will last some years - at this time I enjoy drinking quaffing wines with an age of 4 - 5 years eg 1998 Kalima - wines costing say $15plus, the dearer wines $30+ can be kept in the wine cellar to mature.

Your comments relating to how you keep your wines cool in relation to:

-formally built wine cellars;
-"fridge" wine cellars (comments on what you may own and performance;
-air-conditioning a room for storage; and
-your experience re: the lasting of wines that have had no formal storage after 5 years or longer.

Look forward to your comments.

George

George wrote: The number and value of bottles increased and given my concern of the high summer temperatures I purchased a Kitchener Wine Cellar (it struggles to keep the temperature during summer to under 18 degrees, but better than 25 plus).

George

Hi George,

As I'm thinking seriously about a Kitchener wine cabinet, your statement above worries me a bit. What are your outside summer temperatures when it's 18C in the cabinet?

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

The wine cellar was in an enclosed bedroom, inside temperature at times would have been 30+, it is now in the garage where there is better ventilation, and also I have taken a bottle from each rack which will allow for better cold air flow down the sides.

The temperature is being taken from the top of the last bottom shelf, the top shelf's tend to be colder.

Given the price, I am happy with the performance as I intend to drink the wines rather than as an investment: for investment you need to be careful with the placement of the wine as the shelfing can scratch the label and I've have noted that at times the humidity slightly lifts some of the labels from bottles on the top shelfs.

Kind Regards

George

I store my wine in a commerical wine storage that is temp and humidity controlled with 24 hours access. I currently rents 2 cellars that has 1440 bottles capacity.

Based on my calculation, if I buy the wine fridge and plus insurance, running cost ect.. The total cost is enough to pay for the cellar rents for about 7 years.

I have tasted heat affected wine. It is aweful. the wine is very flat, no palate, aroma, nothing.

I am like George and purchased a Kitchener wine cabinet about 2 years ago. In Brisbane, I have it set to and it keeps the wine at about 17c. Hot summer days are a bit of a struggle, but the alternative of seeing your wines heat affected is not a good one.

Next house (the one before the one with nurses) will have an air conditioned and humidity controlled room. My son already has his name on the Kitchener.

Graham

George wrote:I commenced collecting wine about 5 years ago, and found it to be a "disease" more infectious than the common cold.

Initially I stored the wines (mainly purchased from Cellarmaster)

George, welcome to the wine addicts club. I hope you've learnt the Cellarmasters wines are pretty variable in quality and that the qpr has dropped off in the last few years. I dropped my membership a year or so ago when I found it too much bother trying to pick the occasional gems and sending back the failures.

My wine is in a dedicated home cellar, ground level, easily accessible from the dining room. I use a standard commercial split unit a/c and an evaporative cooler to keep humidity up in summer. It's adequate for the age I tend to drink my reds, mostly in the 7-10 yo range. Temp in winter is around 14, 16-17 in summer.

http://users.tpg.com.au/handreck/Cellar/cellar1.html

For temperature, the way to go is a refrigerative air conditioner, which can be modified to incorporate a precision thermostat if you want. The unit can be bought to suit the size of the room and local conditions.

Humidity can be maintained with a small evaporative air conditioning unit, which are relatively cheap, but are very effective.

If you want to accurately control both temperature and humidity, it may be worth your while looking at an X10 type (wireless) home automation system at around $200 for the controller, and about $150 each for the temperature and humidity sensors... have a surf, the web has lots of info.

Peter.

I built a 15 cubic M cold room in the garage and installed a findis cooling unit. Total cost $5500. Wine is kept at 13.5 year round. If you want to do it this way I can supply any details you want. Beats the hell out of buying 2 wine fridges

I have used many systems in the past - WhisperKool (busted up after 2 years and very noisy with variable temperatures of 15-19C), air con + humidifier (rare to mainatin under 18C) and off-site wine storage at Wine Ark (too much of a hassle - charges kept mounting as I required wine and putting stuff in - I like to have my babies close by).

My best solution has been the self-standing Fondis C50IN cooling system made in France and distributed by Laurie Bilsborough on Sydney's Northern Beaches. This is a third generation machine (after WhisperKool and BreezAir/CoolAire). I must say so far that after one year I am very happy - quiet, maintains 0.5C differential year round and I have it on 14C. Last summer I tested it at 10C during a Sydney heatwave of 30C+ days and maintained this temperature with ease - though alot of condensation formed (had to empty a 10L bucket every 5 days). The system has its own humidifier. Not cheap at +$5,000 but worth every cent.

I also used the best R3.5, 10mm thick insulated boards (hard boards) made by Aerodynamic Developments in Sydney's Wetherill Park (not cheap but they are the best in the world) - they supply Boeing etc.

Electricity charges run to about $250 a year. In short, I am very happy, would never use anything else and strongly recommend this system if u have a large cellar like mine - over 4,000 bottles.

I have a WhisperKool and must say I'm not super happy with it. No great daily differentials so it does the job but the annual difference is 14 in winter to 20 on those really hot summer days in the high 30's.

Worse thing is that it is quite noisey and produces LOTS of condensation. Over 10 Litres a day in summer and a bit less in spring and autumn although negligable in winter. Needless to say, we don't have to worry about the water restrictions when watering our garden. All that water has to go somewhere!

My cellar is built with half of it underground and the passive temp in summer doesn't go much over 23 anyway. Just those really hot and humid days that are the problem.

The Fondis System that Daniel mentions sounds good. When I win the lottery...

The Fondis C18 goes for about $2800. I've had it going for a year now...no problems at all. Has no problems with QLD summers.

Something i will have to buy soon as well...the Summer temps here are so variable..with no commercial wine storage available around here a cabinet will have to be bought.Not owning my own home prevents building a permanent cellar..though i hope to change that in the near future.

Great thread..lots of good ideas.

Cheers

Paul

I too use a Fondis but the smallest model C15 - I have had it for over 18 months and cost $1800. Like Daniel above mine has had no problems and hardly deviates from the temperature u set it at. I think u can set it from 8-20 degrees C. I can hardly hear it too. With my growing cellar I might have to upgrade to the bigger C50 in due time. Info on http://www.fondis.com

Rang Laurie Bilsborough this afternoon - Fondis C10 no longer available. The C18 costs $2623.50 ($2385 +GST). I'd love to get the Cellar temperature properly under control but 2.5 grand buys a lot of wine - close to my current annual budget - perhaps if I sell one or two things?

Hi there George,

I have experienced your same problem over the past 12 months and can only really provide my solution that has worked for me.
A good friend of mine, and the source of much of my wine expenditure, told me that it would be very wise to store my premium wines in a temp controlled cellar. Having moved to Mildura in the past 6 months, I have also invested in a fairly inexpensive ICS Wine Fridge that holds 50 odd bottles. I intend to use this a short-medium term storage area, taking my premiums when I get the chance.
The other thing I do hear a lot of is that if you had to rate the factors affecting wine storage in order of importance, temper variation is probably the biggest problem.

Anyway, good luck with your decision

I have it very strange...

I live in an apartment in Singapore (average temp high 20s deg celsius) and have no wine fridge. I have a miniscule stash at the moment, abt 60 bottles in all, of which about 1/2 are intended for med to long term cellaring the other half for immed drinking.

i intend to get a wine fridge when i move to my new place in abt a year's time (worry abt brand and capacity when i get there), in the meantime, i keep my premiums in a black metal cabinet in a bomb shelter (its the law here that every residential unit includes a built-in bomb shelter with thick walls and a heavy custom door!! honestly i wonder what's the point of having one in a highrise apartment - luckily i stay on the second flr so i reckon that ups my chance of survival a fair bit) which doubles up as a storeroom. being at the core of the building, the bomb shelter is not exposed to the sun, kept dark, relatively cool thru out the day...

i have only been storing wines a short while (most of my premiums have only been stored abt a year plus) so not sure if i am leading my bottles on the road to damnation... i'll find out in 5-10 years' time, i guess.

any one has any suggestions on how to make the best of such horrid conditions until the fridge arrives?

To All Who Responded, Thank You

There were certainly some very helpful hints, and at this time I leaning towards the construction of an insulated wine cellar housing 2000 bottles cooled by a Fondis system.

Again, thanks to all.

Kind Regards

George

Sounds like a good idea - I have a Fondis too. Not sure of model but one of smaller ones. Best decision I ever made but I was doubtful spending $2K to begin with. My wines seem so much more consistent now from bottle to bottle (in terms of taste).

Hi George,

I have just moved and have my wee collection sitting in a storage cupboard in the coolest place in the house. At the moment this is maintaining a stable temp of 19 degrees without any help but we've had a reprieve from the hottest days. I have ordered some 10mm styrofoam from the AMD website and if all goes well with this I will let you know. I'm really looking for something that will look after a very small space (500 bottles max) with no connection to the outside and quiet. You'd think someone out there could fill this niche ie. have the machine without the having to buy the whole fridge.

I just had a interesting flyer dropped in my office. It is advertising 1, 2, 3, 6 and 12 pack polystyrene packs (encased in cardboard)
Their material suggest that wine packed in these packages will have a temperature variance of less than 1 degree in normal household storage, Ambient temp up to 25 degree's. Stackable etc., pricing is not bad either.

jezza wrote:I just had a interesting flyer dropped in my office. It is advertising 1, 2, 3, 6 and 12 pack polystyrene packs (encased in cardboard)
Their material suggest that wine packed in these packages will have a temperature variance of less than 1 degree in normal household storage, Ambient temp up to 25 degree's. Stackable etc., pricing is not bad either.

Jezza
Any comment on the flyer re: humidity?
cheers
Ian

Ian S wrote:

jezza wrote:I just had a interesting flyer dropped in my office. It is advertising 1, 2, 3, 6 and 12 pack polystyrene packs (encased in cardboard)
Their material suggest that wine packed in these packages will have a temperature variance of less than 1 degree in normal household storage, Ambient temp up to 25 degree's. Stackable etc., pricing is not bad either.

Jezza
Any comment on the flyer re: humidity?
cheers
Ian

Ian;

Not that I noticed, but the idea is that you have the pack sealed so I guess the humidity would be OK. I'll have another look come Monday.

CHeers

EDIT: Looking at the advertising material there is no mention of of Humidity and the effects with this storage method.

At the moment, I store majority of my wine in Miller Wine Storage who charge me A$180 per month i(nclude insurance) for that.
The rest of it are stored in a Vintec Wine Cellar in my apartment.

I am going to move into a house later this month, one of the room in the ground floor will be my new cellar and I will move all my collections back to there. The room is around 20+ square meter with airconditioner installed. This room will also be used as a home theatre and I will install a projector and sound system there.

I am still thinking what other equitments I need to purchase in order to improve the cellar condition, especially on the issue of maintaining the humidity.

Any recommandation?

jacques wrote:At the moment, I store majority of my wine in Miller Wine Storage who charge me A$180 per month i(nclude insurance) for that.
The rest of it are stored in a Vintec Wine Cellar in my apartment.

I am going to move into a house later this month, one of the room in the ground floor will be my new cellar and I will move all my collections back to there. The room is around 20+ square meter with airconditioner installed. This room will also be used as a home theatre and I will install a projector and sound system there.

I am still thinking what other equitments I need to purchase in order to improve the cellar condition, especially on the issue of maintaining the humidity.

Any recommandation?

Hi Jacques,

Are you worried at all about the vibration created by the home theatre system, or have you got that sorted?

Hi simm,

I am not really that worry about the vibration created by the theatre system since I believe I won't use them more than a few times a month.

I am more concern about the humidity issue. How can I keep it in a level which good to the wine but not demaging the threater system.

jacques wrote:Hi simm,

I am not really that worry about the vibration created by the theatre system since I believe I won't use them more than a few times a month.

I am more concern about the humidity issue. How can I keep it in a level which good to the wine but not demaging the threater system.

That is a very good point! You may have to separate the areas somehow, sealing the wine from the rest of the theatre. 14 degrees would be pretty uncomfortable for good home entertainment anyway, wouldn't it?

Regards,

Hey Jacques,

Interesting proposition. I have both a home theatre system and a cellar and never the twain shall meet I'm afraid.

There's a few things to consider. With a good home theatre you should have a decent sub woofer and this will disturb your wine. The idea is that the wine is still and free from vibrations and a sub woofer definitely creates vibrations - that's its whole purpose. the wine may have problems creating a proper sediment.

You say you'll only use it a few times a month but I think once you've experienced the joys of home theatre, you'll use it a lot more. We use ours at least once a week and often a lot more and for extended periods.

Light shouldn't be too much of a problem as you're likely to have the lights dim for the movies but if the whole room is at 15 degrees or so, you'll have to wear jumpers everytime you watch a movie and be sitting there with cold hands and feet! All seems a bit strange.

The only solution I can think of is if you use say the back wall as the cellar and make it a few feet deep and create a heavily insulated wall along it (glass or traditional) and keep the wine (and the temperature and humidity) completely seperate from the home theatre. High humidity levels could wreak havoc on expensive electrical components. I have an old amp in the room next to the cellar and it's had to be serviced twice since being located there and I lay the blame directly on the damp humid conditions in that room.

Although expansive, a Fondis 50 with correct insulation is the way to go

You could always consider moving to Greenland and just storing it in the bedroom wardrobe

I though that was Blackpool?