Hi All,
I know we have done this to death but after reading trails on this forum and an article by one particular winery about screwcaps, I really do start to wonder if we are better off putting up with the wines that are spoilt by cork taint and paying the extra for cork?
I have quite a bit of wine under screwcap. I need to go back and audit my entire cellar with a new field, to know exactly know what the number is...Damn! Should we be cellaring wines for the long haul that have been sealed by screwcap - I sort of feel like a bit of a Guinea Pig.
As it is all a bit of unknown territory...should we be trying our stockholds of wines sealed in this manner more often? I feel that the end consumer shouldn't be trying their wines to ensure the wineries have it right!
All gets rather scary considering the money involved! I wonder, if this change in seals all goes to pot in this country, what recourse the end consumer will have?
Just my opinion!
Regards
Finney (Craig)
Screwcaps/Corks/Diams
Don't get sucked in by the luddite cork lobbyists and their scare tactics about screws.
I drink a substantial amount of wine and can't think of hardly any under screwcap that were not consistent. Cork however is a lottery, every time you pull a cork you hope that the wine will be ok, a dozen of the same mature wines from a carton can vary enormously.
The trials done by wineries since the mid 90s show wines mature under screwcaps perfectly well and with greater consistency but more slowly that cork versions.
I've had a number of aged whites from the mid 70s under screwcaps that were wonderful at 30 years of age, cork versions of the same wine dead long ago AND modern screwcaps and bottles are much better than those used in the 70s.
Be brave and keep buying non cork closures.
Oh, and how big is the Bream?
I drink a substantial amount of wine and can't think of hardly any under screwcap that were not consistent. Cork however is a lottery, every time you pull a cork you hope that the wine will be ok, a dozen of the same mature wines from a carton can vary enormously.
The trials done by wineries since the mid 90s show wines mature under screwcaps perfectly well and with greater consistency but more slowly that cork versions.
I've had a number of aged whites from the mid 70s under screwcaps that were wonderful at 30 years of age, cork versions of the same wine dead long ago AND modern screwcaps and bottles are much better than those used in the 70s.
Be brave and keep buying non cork closures.
Oh, and how big is the Bream?
Cheers - Steve
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
If you can see through it, it's not worth drinking!
I am not one of the luddite, pro cork lobby but one who has an open mind on this subject. I also hate what corks do to wine but I am not convinced that screwcaps are the best solution for long term ageing of reds.
They may be the "best at the moment" but there is still bottle variation and defective bottles - even though it is much less than under cork.
And then there is the reductive issue.
Finally, as a number of people have stated that know what they are talking about, some wines simply age better under cork than screwcap.
They may be the "best at the moment" but there is still bottle variation and defective bottles - even though it is much less than under cork.
And then there is the reductive issue.
Finally, as a number of people have stated that know what they are talking about, some wines simply age better under cork than screwcap.
Gary W wrote:TORB wrote:Finally, as a number of people have stated that know what they are talking about, some wines simply age better under cork than screwcap.
Which ones?
GW
Campbell for a start; plus a number of winemakers that have run trials on both and found their own wines showed better under cork than screwcap.
Ed Carr is convinced that the new technology in fizz corks is the way to go. Whilst I did not agree with him, after having drunk a dozen 96 Classic Clare FRS and all of them were perfect with no cork taint, I have a more open mind about them now.
I still HATE what those bloody tree bark plugs can and do do to wine.
According to Ed Carr, all sparkling wines.
The upshot of Campbell's story that is that there is no fixed rule; some show better under cork and some show better under screwcap.
He did the story awhile ago but there are a few comments in some recent stuff on his site. Majella and one other from memory.
The upshot of Campbell's story that is that there is no fixed rule; some show better under cork and some show better under screwcap.
He did the story awhile ago but there are a few comments in some recent stuff on his site. Majella and one other from memory.
TORB wrote:The upshot of Campbell's story that is that there is no fixed rule; some show better under cork and some show better under screwcap.
He did the story awhile ago but there are a few comments in some recent stuff on his site. Majella and one other from memory.
This is what he said about the Majella - "As an aside: I did this same tasting with two bottles of 2001 Majella Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon a couple of weeks back. The screwcap version slaughtered the cork-sealed version – it was a depressing comparison. The screwcap-sealed version was everything you hoped it to be, while the cork-sealed version smelled of cork – not of cork taint, not of muted fruit, just the smell of cork. The cork-sealed wine seemed much less interesting."
Roger
Here is what he said about the other wine in the experiment.
2002 Marius Shiraz screwcap: Expressive, young,
has some rubbery reductive scents but otherwise
spicy and strong, blackberry and whifs of smoked
leather. Characterised by its fragrance. On day two
the wine seemed more tannic and raw than it had
even on day one; the difference between it and the
cork-sealed wine was more marked. The
reductiveness had blown off. I have the feeling that
it needs a good bit more time: the alcohol, the
tannin, the fruit all seem very young. Leave this
one alone for another five years.
2002 Marius Shiraz cork: Dull on the nose but
otherwise much the same as the screwcap version.
If anything, the fruit on the palate is fresher than it
is with the screwcap (on day one, not the case on
day two), and while there is that smoky character
it’s minus the reductive addition. Slippery, creamy
oak is a little more apparent here, though it’s
mostly integrated. Nicely balanced finish – it
finishes better than the screwcap version,
smoother. On day two the aromas have lifted
slightly, and the palate seems sweeter and more red
berried – it tastes quite delicious. I’d start drinking
it in another three years
Line-ball as to which is the better wine. Screwcap
version has a more expressive nose, while the cork
version has a better palate. Both wines still look
young, though the screwcap version, particularly
on day two, looks very young. If I had to choose
between the two I would opt for the cork-sealed
wine, but only at this stage, and only by a smidge.
2002 Marius Shiraz screwcap: Expressive, young,
has some rubbery reductive scents but otherwise
spicy and strong, blackberry and whifs of smoked
leather. Characterised by its fragrance. On day two
the wine seemed more tannic and raw than it had
even on day one; the difference between it and the
cork-sealed wine was more marked. The
reductiveness had blown off. I have the feeling that
it needs a good bit more time: the alcohol, the
tannin, the fruit all seem very young. Leave this
one alone for another five years.
2002 Marius Shiraz cork: Dull on the nose but
otherwise much the same as the screwcap version.
If anything, the fruit on the palate is fresher than it
is with the screwcap (on day one, not the case on
day two), and while there is that smoky character
it’s minus the reductive addition. Slippery, creamy
oak is a little more apparent here, though it’s
mostly integrated. Nicely balanced finish – it
finishes better than the screwcap version,
smoother. On day two the aromas have lifted
slightly, and the palate seems sweeter and more red
berried – it tastes quite delicious. I’d start drinking
it in another three years
Line-ball as to which is the better wine. Screwcap
version has a more expressive nose, while the cork
version has a better palate. Both wines still look
young, though the screwcap version, particularly
on day two, looks very young. If I had to choose
between the two I would opt for the cork-sealed
wine, but only at this stage, and only by a smidge.
-
Mahmoud Ali
- Posts: 2954
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Canada
I have enjoyed many old wines, both red and white, that were sealed with a cork. Sure there were some corked wines but even in the days before the screwcap nobody even thought about giving up the cellaring of wines. That is because the rewards of cellaring exceeded the disappointment of the occasional corked wine. From my own collection I am talking about 15 year old Champagne and over 25 year old German Kabinett wines, not to mention the red wines.
Today, if I was to cellar a good wine for a long time I would opt for a cork sealed wine over a screwcap every time. However, if I was going to drink the wine in the next few months I wouldn't hesitate to buy a screwcap. That is just my opinion based on the old wines I have had. Its always a shame to come across a corked wine but in my experience the positives have far outweighed the negatives.
Cheers..........Mahmoud.
Today, if I was to cellar a good wine for a long time I would opt for a cork sealed wine over a screwcap every time. However, if I was going to drink the wine in the next few months I wouldn't hesitate to buy a screwcap. That is just my opinion based on the old wines I have had. Its always a shame to come across a corked wine but in my experience the positives have far outweighed the negatives.
Cheers..........Mahmoud.
TORB wrote:
Ed Carr is convinced that the new technology in fizz corks is the way to go. Whilst I did not agree with him, after having drunk a dozen 96 Classic Clare FRS and all of them were perfect with no cork taint, I have a more open mind about them now.
I am intrigued that all (yes all) the press releases I see about Ed come from the Cork industry.
Are we sure we are talking about a balanced opinion here?
Murray Almond
I am a newbie to all this, so go easy 
BUT: This thread is titled Screwcaps/Corks/Diams, yet all the discussion is cork v screwcap.
Now to me, from what I know about Diam, it seems to be the perfect solution.
No TCA, and yet still cork, so none of the (potential) problems of screwcaps.
What is wrong with Diam, that makes this argument still open, and still at the exclusion of Diam?
BUT: This thread is titled Screwcaps/Corks/Diams, yet all the discussion is cork v screwcap.
Now to me, from what I know about Diam, it seems to be the perfect solution.
No TCA, and yet still cork, so none of the (potential) problems of screwcaps.
What is wrong with Diam, that makes this argument still open, and still at the exclusion of Diam?
DJZany wrote:I am a newbie to all this, so go easy
BUT: This thread is titled Screwcaps/Corks/Diams, yet all the discussion is cork v screwcap.
Now to me, from what I know about Diam, it seems to be the perfect solution.
No TCA, and yet still cork, so none of the (potential) problems of screwcaps.
What is wrong with Diam, that makes this argument still open, and still at the exclusion of Diam?
Nothing. But some don't like the look of it.
Others have committed themselves to the screwcap temple.
Chardonnay: A drink you have when there is no RED wine, the beer hasn't arrived and the water may be polluted