The Auswine Forum

I have read heaps and heaps of interesting threads on "The Best Under $20", "Top Quaffers <$20" and "Best Value and Bargain Reds" but i havent been that successful in finding those threads for the next bracket-up in the market.

I get the sense that the quality of wine in the <$20 margin is the best its ever been in contemporary society, outstanding and unbelievable QPR. Reds like the
Saltram Mamre Brook 2004
Seppelt Chalambar Shiraz 2004
Wynns BL Cab Sauv 2003
seem to be popping up again and again in regards to their sensational value and quality - I could go on and on here but they serve as good examples that have recently stood out in the forum.

My question is (since i have no idea) are there wines, in the $20<x<$40 bracket that are similarly in another league in itself in quality and QPR for this range? I.e. Is the situation we are all so throroughly enjoying at the moment in the <$20 market also occuring relevantly in the 20-40? OR is the sub 20 that good that the 20 - 40 isnt much bother?

I often read that the likes of for example: the Saltram Mamre CS and Seppelt Chalam are similar in quality to a majority of $30-$40 wines, what wines therefore in the $20-$40 are drinking in the $50-$90 range??? Your peaks of peaks for this range....

Cheers

I thought the Majella Cab 03 at around $30 was excellent. Very typical high quality Coonawarra Cab.
I agree wholeheartedly with your basic premise that the under 20s are very,very good at present.

Cullen Ellen Bussell red ($25) is the most gorgeous ready drinking wine I have come across. The palette is drenched in rich flavours but still managing to keep length in a very smooth way. Watch out for the current 2004 vintage. Will still improve in a few years.

Partagas wrote:Cullen Ellen Bussell red ($25) is the most gorgeous ready drinking wine I have come across. The palette is drenched in rich flavours but still managing to keep length in a very smooth way. Watch out for the current 2004 vintage. Will still improve in a few years.

Partagas,

I too thought the palate was rich and textural on the Ellen, but found the nose too leafy. Could split the crowd.

I'm still an advocate of the 2000 vintage Bin 56 - I think this wine will last decades. The wines of Drew Noon off mailing list would have to fall into the best buy category too.

Grinners wrote:I often read that the likes of for example: the Saltram Mamre CS and Seppelt Chalam are similar in quality to a majority of $30-$40 wines, what wines therefore in the $20-$40 are drinking in the $50-$90 range??? Your peaks of peaks for this range....

Cheers

Don't believe everything you read. Personally I think the wines you mentioned are fairly priced and probably good value at the street price under $20 (at least 20% off rrp), although I've been underwhelmed so far by the Chalambar 2004, I've tried 2 bottles and not found them overly attractive, but I didn't decanting them, however the remnants of one bottle wasn't any better the next day.

My view is that (despite the tight market) there are still a lot of over-priced wines, there are also a lot of fairly priced wines and very few that are under-priced by $10-$20 pb. If you are comparing many $30-$40 bottles of red to some in the $50-$80 range then you will certainly find many in the lower range that you prefer. I think this generally means the higher-priced ones are over-priced rather than the lower-priced one being seriously under-priced.

To compound the situtation, you can pay $10-$20pb less for a $50-$90 rrp bottle of wine by shopping around and often find $20-$40 wines at $5-$10 less than the general asking price.

One wine I think bats above it's price in the range you asked for is Brown Bros. Patricia Shiraz 2002, it can be had for $34.95 at some places, $43 at others (6-pack prices) and I ranked it just a little higher than the E&E Black Pepper Shiraz 2002, about $70-$75 street price, Kaesler Old Bastard Shiraz 2002, around $150 and d'Arenberg Dead Arm Shiraz 2002 @ $55 street price.

Red Bigot wrote:

Grinners wrote:I often read that the likes of for example: the Saltram Mamre CS and Seppelt Chalam are similar in quality to a majority of $30-$40 wines, what wines therefore in the $20-$40 are drinking in the $50-$90 range??? Your peaks of peaks for this range....

Cheers

Don't believe everything you read. Personally I think the wines you mentioned are fairly priced and probably good value at the street price under $20 (at least 20% off rrp), although I've been underwhelmed so far by the Chalambar 2004, I've tried 2 bottles and not found them overly attractive, but I didn't decanting them, however the remnants of one bottle wasn't any better the next day.

My view is that (despite the tight market) there are still a lot of over-priced wines, there are also a lot of fairly priced wines and very few that are under-priced by $10-$20 pb. If you are comparing many $30-$40 bottles of red to some in the $50-$80 range then you will certainly find many in the lower range that you prefer. I think this generally means the higher-priced ones are over-priced rather than the lower-priced one being seriously under-priced.

To compound the situtation, you can pay $10-$20pb less for a $50-$90 rrp bottle of wine by shopping around and often find $20-$40 wines at $5-$10 less than the general asking price.

One wine I think bats above it's price in the range you asked for is Brown Bros. Patricia Shiraz 2002, it can be had for $34.95 at some places, $43 at others (6-pack prices) and I ranked it just a little higher than the E&E Black Pepper Shiraz 2002, about $70-$75 street price, Kaesler Old Bastard Shiraz 2002, around $150 and d'Arenberg Dead Arm Shiraz 2002 @ $55 street price.

I agree with your opinion on the 2004 Chalambar Brian. I found the nose to be interesting and inviting, with meaty characteristics and slight overtones of smokey oak. The palate, however, I found to be astringent. Chock-full of sour acidity. I've only tried one bottle though. Will try another before making a final decision.

Interestingly, and by contrast, I find the 2004 Victoria Shiraz to be a gorgeous wine. Primary fruit, subtle fine-grained tannins (that don't actually show up until the next day, making me think this wine will go quite a distance) and just the right amount of acidity. At ~$10/bottle, I've never experienced such a bargain. I will be buying several cases.

Stuart

p.s. I don't think much of the 2004 Mamre Cab either. And I loved the 2002.

Ignoring the debate of the examples <$20, what are other peoples opinions along the lines of Brian's in regards to wines in the $20-$40 that are drinking way beyond the competition in that price range??

Brian, know if the Partricia 02 still around?

Grinners wrote:Brian, know if the Partricia 02 still around?

It is, at the prices I quoted, check your PM.

More or less agree with comments about the Chalambar and Mamre Brook (except to say that I think they are fully priced at under 20 rather than being good value). I have said the same on this and other fora. I do think, however that overall the under 20s are performing very well.
e.g
Oomoo shiraz 04
Moondah Brook Cab and Shiraz 02
Annies Lane Shiraz 03 and 04
Wynns Cab 03 as above.
There are a lot more.