The Auswine Forum

I want to preface what I am about to write by stating this is not a Penfolds-bash, rather an attempt to get some facts / information. I'm sure this has been touched on in the forum at some stage, but doing a search on "Penfolds" gives more options than I would care to wade through !

When I was starting to get fair dinkum about wine (late 80s), Penfolds were without doubt the most esteemed label.

In the last decade or so, there has been a host of new labels (RWT, Bin 60a from 2004, Rawsons Retreat, Hyland etc etc) with at least an element of shiraz in them.

What I want to know, is where have the supply of shiraz grapes come from ? I know they have planted vineyards in Robe and other parts of SA, but are these of high enough quality to go into the higher end labels ? Are we seeing a progressive quality reduction of once decent labels ? For example, are grapes that once went to St Henri going to RWT and are grapes that once went in Bin 28, going to Bin 389 ?

Any thoughts or info would be appreciated.

Cheers


Mike

Mike,

Pennies (and what was SC as a whole) buy in a large proportion of the their grapes; so the grapes for these wines could come from almost anywhere/anyone.

I can't remember where I saw it now but recently I saw an old article that listed the wineries that were often selected for many of the premium Penfolds labels... I'll try to remember.

Mike Hawkins wrote:In the last decade or so, there has been a host of new labels (RWT, Bin 60a from 2004, Rawsons Retreat, Hyland etc etc) with at least an element of shiraz in them.

What I want to know, is where have the supply of shiraz grapes come from ? I know they have planted vineyards in Robe and other parts of SA, but are these of high enough quality to go into the higher end labels ? Are we seeing a progressive quality reduction of once decent labels ? For example, are grapes that once went to St Henri going to RWT and are grapes that once went in Bin 28, going to Bin 389 ?

Any thoughts or info would be appreciated.

Cheers


Mike

That's pretty close to the mark Mike regarding Southcorp's own resources. Over the last few years a larger proprtion of Robe fruit has wound up in St. Henri, riper cooler-climate fruit in Bin 28, and when the Seppelt Dorrien was briefly discontinued (2000-2004) most of the Cabernet went into Bin 389. Some Robe fruit apparently even found its way into the 2000 Grange - somehow I find it a little offputting the $350-$400 flagship contains some fruit from 14 year old south coast vines, good as it may be.

Cheers,
Ian

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I think you will find that this is simply a reflection of the increasing number of plantings that come on stream every year.Don't know if Robe fruit has made it into Grange but if it has, it would only have been because it would have been deemed to be good enough.
Anyone that has looked at the volumes of Grange produced over the years would see that it can vary quite a bit,depending on the amount of quality fruit available.I think even Penfolds would realise that using fruit that doesn't quite make the grade to boost the volume of Grange made would do more damage than good to the reputation of their flagship label.
One only has to look at the fact that in some years,Bin 707 is not made,due to there not being enough quality fruit available.

True Blue wrote:I think you will find that this is simply a reflection of the increasing number of plantings that come on stream every year.Don't know if Robe fruit has made it into Grange but if it has, it would only have been because it would have been deemed to be good enough.
Anyone that has looked at the volumes of Grange produced over the years would see that it can vary quite a bit,depending on the amount of quality fruit available.I think even Penfolds would realise that using fruit that doesn't quite make the grade to boost the volume of Grange made would do more damage than good to the reputation of their flagship label.
One only has to look at the fact that in some years,Bin 707 is not made,due to there not being enough quality fruit available.

Some critics like Jeremy Oliver has publicly gone on record saying that the 2000 Grange shouldn't have been released under the label - the only reason for doing so was to keep the claim of an unbroken line of vintages going. That was the vintage that the Robe fruit crept in, primarily because of the problems sourcing a quantity of something decent to justify the vintage. Unlike 707, Hill of Grace, etc, I think you'll find that Grange will almost always be made regardless of how bad the vintage may be because of the wide sourcing of Shiraz fruit and the stubborness of Penfolds to release one regardless.

Cheers,
Ian

markg wrote:I can't remember where I saw it now but recently I saw an old article that listed the wineries that were often selected for many of the premium Penfolds labels... I'll try to remember.

I have vague recollections of a few wineries stating that the fruit for their new premium releases used to go to Grange up until the 90s...

...I think it may include Kaesler, perhaps Turkey Flat, and didn't Torbreck start off buying up batches of old vine fruit too? I am positive there were more. How many fairly new "old vine" labels are there?