The Auswine Forum

Hi,

Just wanted to post quickly about a producer that I think is about to become a serious player on the Margaret River, and for that matter, the Australian wine scene.

To put it simply, Woodlands are making seriously impressive wines. The current releases are terrific; the only issue is that the top wines, the "Margaret" and the "Kevin" are made in very small quantities and are nearly sold out at this point in time.

Nonetheless, these are wines worth seeking out. The 2003 Margaret ($38 ) is gorgeous- quintessential Margaret River Cab/Mer, softly fruited, yet powerful and long, very classy. The 2001 Kevin ($80), a straight Cabernet, is right up there with anything that has been produced out of the stunning 2001 vintage. A big call ,given the quality of the Moss Wood and Cullen 01's, but this is a wine of character. Nowhere near ready to drink at the moment, but destined for good things somewhere near the end of the decade.

It is great to see Woodlands stepping up to the plate, and producing challenging, stylish wines that threaten the status quo. Expect to hear more about this name.

Cheers

Grant, They have always made good wine. The only thing that worries me about them is that they have been "discovered" and now their prices have increased markedly.

I for one no longer buy there.

I visited Woodlands recently and was very impressed with the wines. They had a richness and power I found lacking in many other MR producers. The 03 Margaret is released now and I picked up a six pack for $30 per bottle. Great wine, and very fairly priced in my opinion. The $20 04 Cab Merlot was also delivering far above its price point. I can't afford to buy the Kevin or the cab franc but I don't think they are priced excessively considering the prices for other MR wines of that calibre. I hadn't heard of Woodlands before but agree with Grant that we'll be hearing more from them in the future.

I discovered Woodlands earlier this year thanks to a good friend of mine and have bought a few, but it will be interesting to see how much their prices rise now they are making a name for themselves. Given how expensive some MR wines are though I think they are ok for now.

Davo,

I had never seen any of their wines until a few arrived some weeks ago, in fact I had hardly heard of them until that point. I agree that the pricing is ambitious, but if you can back it up with the quality of the wine then you have a case to argue. When you only make 220 cases of the Margaret and roughly the same of the Kevin though, you are not too likey to get rich in a hurry so I don't see it as overly opportunistic.


Cheers

Grant,

They mainly operated on word of mouth and mailing list in the past.

Their premium label was the St Peters but about 2 or 3 years ago they changed all their labelling and their prices started to move, considerably.

Sure, the quality is there, but it galls me a little, well actually a lot, when this chase for cash seems to overtake customer loyalty.

Another MR producer, and not much more than a spit from their door, who went down this road is Gralyn. Great wine with a few medals and trophies under their belt but pricing that became bleeding ridiculous as their name spread.

Good for them but bad for me I guess.

It is easy to get p***ed off when prices of a wine you discovered suddenly take off but you need to keep some sense of perspective. The winemakers have to get some return for their investment and labour sometime.

So look around for a new discovery. There is lots of Margaret River wine around at discount prices, especially if it is made with that extremely passe variety Cabernet. Once apon a time Cab was regarded as a premium grape and Margaret River a premium area for producing it. Remember that time, it was called the 1990s.

The market has moved on, but the wines are still there and better than ever. All but the 'flagship' wines from Margaret River now better and better value, so try some others, there are now well over a hundred good to ecxellent brands coming out of Margeret River so you should find something with a little work.

Cheers

darby wrote:It is easy to get p***ed off when prices of a wine you discovered suddenly take off but you need to keep some sense of perspective. The winemakers have to get some return for their investment and labour sometime.

Hey Darby, it is not only the customers who need to keep some sense of perspective. I am all for winemakers making money, it is what keeps them in business and that means they keep producing wine. What I hate is the mad scramble for extra profit when they get some recognition. Their costs of production have not gone up, just their profit margin.

And as to finding other wines, too easy. I have already well moved on and I suspect a lot of others who were previously customer will have done so as well. It is only blind loyalty that will keep some buying when, as you so eloquently point out, there are so many other producers around making equally excellent product which is available much cheaper.

Davo,

The silly catch to this wine marketing merry-go-round is that sticking your price way into the stratosphere is one way for people to take notice of you. Makes a statement, differentiates you, creates a bit of controversy, gets people talking about the brand. If your quantities are small enough, and the product of a high enough quality, you usually sell out, leaving a few people hungry for next year, in which you increase production slightly, and so on.

I agree that the Woodlands wines are aggressively priced, but they are good stuff. The market will decide if they are worth the coin, or not.

Cheers

I think Woodlands offer exceptional value for money, especially the Cab/Merlot which can be bought off the mailing list at $16.50 per bottle by the 6 pack and beats all contenders at this price point. Have been buying Woodlands off and on for the past 12 years, and in relative terms do not believe their price has risen that much. Bear in mind they have an exceptional piece of dirt and have been established since 1973, whereas a lot of the more recent wineries in Margaret river, with unknown track records and locations, are quite happy to sell their first or second vintage for $30 plus.

Hi Guys,

I dont really post alot on this forum. But reading this thread made me want to post. I dont mind taking a little critisism every now and again, its healthy. But I just cant help myself.

You see my family owns Woodlands and I make the wines.

We really take a lot of time thinking about price and price points and sometimes I just wonder what you guys realy want ?

We make, depending on the vintage btween 1000-1500 cases of Unwooded chardonnay that sells buy the 6 pack for $16.5 or individually for $20 (this wine has been rated very well by Ray Jordan and James Halliday and Campell Mattinson)

at this same price point a Cab Merlot of between 2500-4500 cases depending on the vintage, that consistantly since 2001 wins Gold and silver medals (depending on what you think of the show system each vintage of this wine has earned at least four silver medals in open classes with wines that are twice its price ) this wine is currently in JO's new book at the front under "Best Australian Wines under $20" with a score of 93,
in Quaff by Peter Forrestal it is rated at Bloody good under great value new releases and rates 4 1/2 stars in Stuart Gregors new book "Dont Buy wine without me". The Vintages of this since 2001 have sold out every year in Seven or Eight months.

In 2000 we made a wine called St Peter this was a Cab Merlot blend that we sold for between $35 and $40 depending on case discount. This was discontinued in 2001 when we made a straight Cabernet Sauvignon the first since 1992 (our first vintage was 1978). This was a wine that we deemed to be in the upper echelon of the the MR Cab scene. We decided that it should be priced with it's neighbors. For the first six months of the release of this wine it was offered to those that came though the cellar door at $65 per bottle or $60 by the six pack. The price then Went up to Where it is now at $79 we made 200 cases. In 2002 there are only 100 cases.

Since 1990 we have been making a wine called Margaret that retails for $39 of by the six pack $30 this is basically the St Peter equivilant. this wine has been reviewed by numerous people , Halliday, JO, and Mattinson with scores varying between 91-95. We make between 100 - 400 cases depending on Vintage.

Then we make a small range of reserve wines a Cab Franc and a Malbec depending on the vintage there are only 50 cases of these wines and generally sell out the year before while they are in the barrel at $50-55/ six pack allocation.


This year we released

1000 Cases Chardonnay
2500 Cases Cab Merlot
200 Cases "Margaret"
200 Cases Cab Sauv
100 Cases Mixed (Cab Franc, Malbec, Merlot, Pinot, Chard)

By My calculations 87% of our wine sells for $20 or less depending on where you buy it. I think the value for money is pretty good.

All this from the 5th oldest vineyard in Margaret River in one of the greatest sub-regions - Wilyabrup, crushing 80 tonnes and still family owned.

We have many loyal fans of the Winery, but you cant please everybody !


What do you think ?

Stuart

stuwatson wrote:Hi Guys,


In 2000 we made a wine called St Peter this was a Cab Merlot blend that we sold for between $35 and $40 depending on case discount. This was discontinued in 2001 when we made a straight Cabernet Sauvignon the first since 1992 (our first vintage was 1978). This was a wine that we deemed to be in the upper echelon of the the MR Cab scene. We decided that it should be priced with it's neighbors. For the first six months of the release of this wine it was offered to those that came though the cellar door at $65 per bottle or $60 by the six pack. The price then Went up to Where it is now at $79 we made 200 cases. In 2002 there are only 100 cases.

Stu, I love your wines but that paragraph encapsulates my experience, and the line in bold to me says everything.

To me, everything that Stu says is not only reasonable - but smart. Basically he's saying that 87% of their wines are really good at really good prices, and then with the last 13% they reach for the quality stars, and expect to be re-imbursed for it. I think the call has been loud and clear over the past three years that Australia needs to make more reach-for-the-stars wines, and of course it needs to be done while keeping us day-to-day drinkers happy. Seems pretty clear that Stu is managing to do both.

If you take out a tiny 200 cases of their production, you have a range that is more or less a bargain. That's about how it should be.

Campbell.

stuwatson wrote:but you cant please everybody !

...what Stu said.

Stu

I've never tasted your wines, but such up-front, sensible and businessmanlike commentary has made me a fan of your vineyard already.

Thanks for posting.

regards, Manning

I tend to agree with most things that Davo says (we seem to think alike most of the time) but on this I think I differ. Stu, I think your wines at the lower end of the price scale present exceptional value, and there is another wine you make that you didn't mention that I love but I'm not divulging that one. Certainly no complaints from me that's for sure. However I guess I can see Davo's point about the bit he highlighted. At the moment your lower priced wines are differentiated from your competition, in my humble opinion, by the fact that they represent quality at a price that is hard to match.

With your premiums though, the statement that Davo highlighted "We decided that it should be priced with it's neighbors" simply means that in regard to those wines, you have lost your differentiator of price/quality and they become one of a number of wines at the same price/quality point. Perhaps that's the point Davo was making. I am in business myself and have the same struggle. We offer our services at market rates, but as a result I can't use price as a differentiator, I have to find something else that sets us apart from our competition. Unfortunately in my line of work price is the most obvious thing, quality is a little harder to prove.

Keep up the good work though Stu, I have only recently become a loyal fan but intend to remain so for the long term!

Hey guys, merely stating my opinion. I was never really enamoured of the lower labels and hence bought little of them. I am pretty choosey when wine is priced over $30 a bottle, but as in this case when it goes above $50 a bottle I become very very picky about what I am buying. I personally think there is better value to be found elsewhere in Oz and spend my money there. What you do with your cash is your problem.

The winemakers I find I retain the greatest loyaly to are those who try and maintain their price no matter the demand their accolades or popularity brings, and I must unfortunately admit their numbers are limited.

Two that spring to mind are Rockies and more recently Warabilla.

As I said, just my opinion.