The Auswine Forum

Hello

Nothing to do with wine, just me seeking advice and feedback.

Seeking to upgrade my hi fi / home theatre and would love opinions, feedback, reviews experience.

I listen to much more music than home theatre, but will set up a system that will cater for home theatre, hence based around a quality AV receiver.

Upfronjt I want to spend my budgest on quality main speakers and receiver, then build up later with smaller speakers, perhaps sub woofer etc.

Love any feedback, experiences, reviews that you may have.

Budget, medium, seekign maximum bang for my buck as most of us are.

Ideas?

Gavin,

I retained a separate Hifi and the following tips largely because:-

1) I actually DON'T want the "surround sound" for TV;

2) I prefer to have different rooms for TV and Hifi (so you can have one on in one place and the other on in the other....);

3) at the cost of running topline can der Hul cable from room to room you could go bankrupt VERY quickly;

4) the old rule about separate components (assuming you have the space) still holds: isolate your components from intereference/feedback etc;

5) I have an amateurish interest but you really should contact topline HiFi shops and get an expert's take on the latest gear/recommendations for different budgets and analysing your specific needs. In Sydney Julian from Audio One at Neutral bay ( aguy who did NOT sell me new speakers when I was contemplating the same but rewired my existing monitors and put in topline capacitors - saving me approximately $7-9,000!! and noting that this way I got topline performance....), Harry York (used to be York HiFi at Drummoyne but now at Pyrmont) or len Wallis Hifi

6) Annalyse why you are doing what you are contemplating in advance: what do you hope to gain, what are your listening tastes, what are your volume preferences, how far from the speakers will you be, what size room(s) and just HOW MUCH is your budget: HiFi is like wine - the upper costs are almost endless and there is a law of diminishing returns;

7) whatever is suggested: listen to the set-up on your own favourite discs and check that it accords with YOUR listening preferences: no matter what figures are stated by engineering boffins, your ears are the true test;

consider the appearance of the endproduct (because if you don't believe you me your partner WILL!!) and consult with her before the proverbial hits the fan...

9) also consider how long you expect to be in the one place and the extent of wiring you wish to do- size of house etc....

I shall refrain from listing my personal preferences as my taste runs to classical music (looking for precision), mainly played at lowish volumes but if you want to test speakers /systems take ALL of the following for audition:-

1 disc of piano sonatas (pure notes showing precision)

1 disc of jazz music not vocal (better than most orchestral for ensemble)

1 disc of difficult vocal eg sopranos cat duet, traviata Callas aria

1 test disc typically available at good Hifi stores which will have things like electronic cannon from 1812 overture, electronic "noise", and much modern rock for bass but listen to it first on your current system to get a feel for what is there by way of comparison....


good luck as soon you will be (much) poorer

Let me know the outcome!

fred

fred wrote:Gavin,

I retained a separate Hifi and the following tips largely because:-

1) I actually DON'T want the "surround sound" for TV;

5) I have an amateurish interest but you really should contact topline HiFi shops and get an expert's take on the latest gear/recommendations for different budgets and analysing your specific needs. In Sydney Julian from Audio One at Neutral bay ( aguy who did NOT sell me new speakers when I was contemplating the same but rewired my existing monitors and put in topline capacitors - saving me approximately $7-9,000!! and noting that this way I got topline performance....), Harry York (used to be York HiFi at Drummoyne but now at Pyrmont) or len Wallis Hifi

6) Annalyse why you are doing what you are contemplating in advance: what do you hope to gain, what are your listening tastes, what are your volume preferences, how far from the speakers will you be, what size room(s) and just HOW MUCH is your budget: HiFi is like wine - the upper costs are almost endless and there is a law of diminishing returns;

7) whatever is suggested: listen to the set-up on your own favourite discs and check that it accords with YOUR listening preferences: no matter what figures are stated by engineering boffins, your ears are the true test;

consider the appearance of the endproduct (because if you don't believe you me your partner WILL!!) and consult with her before the proverbial hits the fan...

I shall refrain from listing my personal preferences as my taste runs to classical music (looking for precision), mainly played at lowish volumes but if you want to test speakers /systems take ALL of the following for audition:-

1 disc of piano sonatas (pure notes showing precision)

1 disc of jazz music not vocal (better than most orchestral for ensemble)

1 disc of difficult vocal eg sopranos cat duet, traviata Callas aria

1 test disc typically available at good Hifi stores which will have things like electronic cannon from 1812 overture, electronic "noise", and much modern rock for bass but listen to it first on your current system to get a feel for what is there by way of comparison....


good luck as soon you will be (much) poorer

Let me know the outcome!

fred

Fred, my thanks.

1) Nor do I, but the family do

5) I've done that, but am, getting more confused, and am now seeking 'independent views. Also no one here has the three or 4 I'm leaning towards in the one store, so no way to actually compare them together, same time, same sound source, same room etc

6) Definite budget for main speakers and electronics. Then looking to add components over time.

7) Appearance, she already does!

Personal preferences, please do. I too listen to some classical, jazz and modern, and often at low volumes

Its pesonal preferences and experiences I seek, independent views.

Gavin,

on the home theatre front, we installed a projector in our family room which provides a 2 metre+ wide screen. Connect to virtually any surround sound style system and you have a passable alternative to the movies. You need a largish room with good blackout curtains, but if that concept suits, then you can have quite a cheap setup. Great for PS2 and other games players.

We used an InFocus X1 proector at around $2,000 so the project doesn't have to break the bank. Great picture quality and the kids love it (and they are fussy )

If this seems a good idea, there is a good website with reviews of most projectors: http://www.projectorcentral.com/

cheers,

David M.

Gavin Trott wrote:Seeking to upgrade my hi fi / home theatre and would love opinions, feedback, reviews experience.

What is lacking or can be improved in your current setup? Are you missing the lowest notes of a double bass? Hoping to make violins tolerable?

What size is your room? Does it have timber floors or tiles? Is it 'echoey'? Is your priority volume, frequency response or aesthetic/size?

Do you have young children or pets?

Some general tips:

Hifi is full of a lot of bollocks and hyperbole.

Big brands mean *nothing*. A small maker can produce a superior product at a lesser price (as they can an inferior product at an exorbitant price).

It's important to hear your select amplifier and speakers connected *together* in your *room* before making a final decision.

You will choose something which sounds different rather than "correct" (accurate) when listening to lots of speaker combinations - don't be fooled. Any good hifi dealer worth their salt (for a "decent" purchase) will allow you to try them at home - if not, walk away.

A mind is subject to suggestion - brand, price, review, recommendation (think latest release Grange).

Chances are, your partner (or non hifi interested person) will be a better judge than you. Listen to their opinion - they are often right in the longer term.

Every speaker (and amplifier) is a compromise.

Consider second hand - value is outstanding. A $5k speaker two to three years ago will be selling for under $3k (not suggesting it's necessary to spend this...). Before connecting any second hand amplifier to your speaker get it checked out by a good technician - they can and do fry speakers.

Understand amplifier limits and speaker compatibility. Typical, inefficient speakers on the marketplace today are not going to work well with moderate priced AV receivers, despite the claims by the store/packaging.

Finally, don't buy speakers from white vans!

Kind regards
Adrian

Adrian's points on 2nd hand (assuming that tey have been "babied") are good and valid - as is the rest of his post.

On screens we went LCD but a lot depends on just how bid a screen you want and whether it is projection (as in dropdown) or in place permanently. Strongly suggset you consult your wife on this point. I still reckon there is tremendous value in CRT but the boss did not want another "big black box".

Plasma has improved but when just one little pixel burns out....we did not want HUGE - and the 80cm (?) LCD Grundig is a beautiful package for $3k with a decent sound beneath the screen. Since you are going AV - all you really want is a monitor with tuner and HD presumably wired in?

I have a feeling that your requirements and those of the wife/kids may not be compatible....SEPARATE the 2 systems

fred

The systems willnot be separated, but there WILL be a strong preference to the sound of the music being played. this will be the basis of the choice, with its use for home theatre VERY much background.

hence, consider the musical playing and sound of the system primary, I certainly will.

Adding sup woofer and surround speakers may come later.

Also its the speakers and receiver amp that are important to me.

I'm not buying new TV or flat screen or projectors, TV is just not important enough to me.

Sorry if my early post was not clear.

Hi Gavin,

Agree with most of what is said above, although there is a lot of debate about the need to spend a lot on cables ( I have but not sure it was worth it - there are a lot of snake oil salesmen in the cable business)

I found the HT forum on the following site particularly useful when I was putting together a system focused on hi-fidelity audio for me and HT for the family.

http://www.dtvforum.info/

Others have avoided naming brands, I am happy to jump right in there. Of course, it will all depend on budget.

I am all for buying locally, we make some incredibly good audio equipment. You are particularly blessed in SA with some very good local speaker manufacturers such as Duntech (although they may have moved to NSW - not sure) and VAF Research, both of whom have good websites - I can PM them to you if you are interested. A visit to VAF may not be a waste of time, I hear they have a good audition setup.

Rotel make some good HT pre-processors which remain resonably true to their Hi-Fi roots at their price points. NAD is another name worth considering unless you have a full wallet.

Another good Aussie manufacturer, Electra in Melbourne makes some very good 6 channel power amplifiers, and for a true Hi-Fi experience they also make one of the best 24bit/192khz upsampling DACs for the price in the country. The nearest you will get a CD to sound like a record - real breadth and warmth!

Toshiba make some very good multiformat disc players at various price points.

Also, if you can use a circular saw, some glue and a screwdriver, you might consider making a subwoofer. After forking out $2700 for something I wasn't entirely happy with, I spent $1000 on components and made myself a ripper which goes very low (-3dB at 18hz) and high quality output (no frequencies over or under - emphasised).

Can provide a number of useful links for DIY subs as well as the other items mentioned above.

Hope this assists.

Regards,

Allan

Note: corrected following mphatic's post below.

Gavin,

I can happily recommend Denon products, namely their audio receivers. Never had a problem and never heard of a problem - the way it should be. Denon and Marantz are probably the only two brands I'd consider, based on extensive previous research (at least in that price bracket).

I have some basic floorstanding and bookshelf speakers by KEF, certainly not their top of the range (that run into the thousands and thousands) but I think they represent good value for money in the three digit figure (and a tad over) range. I must admit though, I certainly haven't researched the speakers as much as the receivers. The receiver is paramount - I'd be inclined to spend more than budgeted on this piece of equipment and perhaps cut costs a little on capital for speakers.

It is very difficult to effectively compare speakers and sound when you don't have an array of your desired products setup identically in a proper sound room ready for your ears. Gut instinct is always important; hear with your ears, listen with your heart.

A few questions, think about them even if you don't want to answer them here:

1) What's your budget?
2) Do you really want surround effects, or is stereo okay? Personally, I find surround effects gimmicky, they detract from rather than enchance the immersion effect for me, and you'll get much better stereo sound from, well, a stereo setup...and most likely your recorded music will be in stero format.
3) How do you like your sound? Warm and sweet, crisp and puncy, or without bias?
4) Does massive volume matter, or is a quality sound more important to you?
5) What type of music do you have playing most of the time? This is what will help you decide on the amp/speaker combo. Some setups render a symphony 'just like you're there', but make Kind of Blue sound Kind of Poo...with hard-edged bass and impotent sax, and lacking middle. What's important to you?

Me? For champagne sound on a beer budget I'd be aiming for some main speakers of serious dimension, with response into the subwoofer range (think below 30Hz). This way, you won't miss the sub SOUND-wise, though the rattle in the floor may not be as earth shattering. The amp is just as important (some will say more so) and this is where personal taste really comes into the question. Unless you dislike your neighbours, 30-50 watts per channel is plenty, even for parties, depending on the sensitivity of the speakers. Try out some different brands, as they tend to have their own bias. I second Maximus' suggestion of Marantz (and I have no personal experience with Denon), though I'd look very seriously at the Yamaha range too, quality is first rate and the sound is very neutral without being neutered JVC is a favourite of mine from the 'vintage' audio years, they tend to produce a sweet, fat sound, bottom heavy without thudding or losing detail. Nad is worth a look too. Onkyo is a favourite amongst 'audiophiles' on a budget, but I'm yet to hear anything with real character...that's probably a personal preference though. Chew on that for a moment Audio design, like wine, takes both technical and sentimental consideration...there's technical crap, which very few will like, and there's technical greatness. At that point, personal preference takes precedence over minute variations in measurable performance. As winter comes on, I'd like to lie in the sun bathing in the warmth of my effortless vintage audio, while others will prefer the transparent sound of the latest technically correct reproduction from their THX certified subwoofer-reliant system. Neither is right, but which is right for you? That, is the important question.

I am all for buying locally, we make some incredibly good audio equipment. You are particularly blessed in SA with some very good local speaker manufacturers such as Duntech (although they may have moved to NSW - not sure) and VAF Research, both of whom have good websites - I can PM them to you if you are interested. A visit to VAF may not be a waste of time, I hear they have a good audition setup.

Add to that Krix (based at Hackham) who cut their teeth making speakers for cinemas. I got my pair of Lyrix ten years ago for my stereo/hifi video setup, and they haven't missed a beat. They're not the cheapest around, but QPR is outstanding compared to equivalents.

http://www.krix.com.au/

Cheers
Ian

Hi Gavin,

Might have mentioned that I am a little obsessive. If you are up to a bit more research, follow this link to some further links to some sites I found useful in my search for hi quality audio and HT:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~bigkids ... 0Links.doc

Regards,

Allan

Gavin Trott wrote:Hello

Upfronjt I want to spend my budgest on quality main speakers and receiver, then build up later with smaller speakers, perhaps sub woofer etc.

I'd disagree with this for Home Theatre (as opposed to just music listening).

You want a really good match between your main and all surround speakers. My first HT was built around a Yamaha RXV795 Receiver, using the old HiFi Speakers to which I added a good centre and speaker and hi fi srrounds to.

While the various speakers were all quality equipment, hooked up together they didn't gel. Playing the pink noise test through the speakers showed significantly different tones between the fronts, centre and rears. This showed further when well-mixed quieter scenes in movies in 5.1.

The next setup (I now have two in the house) was a setup with more modest speakers, but they are all matched and give a better Home Theatre experience that the setup with the 'better' specs.

If you going to build up gradually, plan upfront for a well-matched set, and audition the entire setup before buying the fronts.

BTW once you get the HT setup up, get the XBox installed. Halo, Halo 2 and Doom3 are all stunning in Dolby Digital.

I'd treat HiFi and HT as two separate beast here.

Just to clarify.

I'm not suggesting that all five/six speaks have to be identical speakers, only that they are really well-matched.

Gavin Trott wrote:Hello

I listen to much more music than home theatre, but will set up a system that will cater for home theatre, hence based around a quality AV receiver.

Upfronjt I want to spend my budgest on quality main speakers and receiver, then build up later with smaller speakers, perhaps sub woofer etc.

What we have in terms of brand names is probably not relevant to Oz. But once we finished our recent home renovation that made two rooms into one large room we decided that we would upgrade our receiver and speakers to a surround sound system - mainly for music but also for DVDs. Its made a world of difference. We opted for the cheaper version of the cables (because you need a lot of cable for surround sound system especially if you have big room and it can get out of hand $$ wise). If you can spend the $$ Gavin go for a good suround sound system, raid the shop for few good reds, and slip something from the Lord of the Rings or Star Wars into the DVD player and sit back and try to relax!

Mike

Gavin Trott wrote:Budget, medium, seekign maximum bang for my buck as most of us are.
Ideas?

Gavin,

Medium budget can mean anywhere between $3000 - $20000, depending upon how seriously you take your audio sessions. If you don't want to give us an exact number, at least let us know which speakers/amps you have been auditioning, so that we know where in this range you sit.

In terms of quality speakers in what I can medium-range, companies like B&W, JMLab, and Paradigm, generally produce excellent units that all sound different. There is no right or wrong here - just look for the speaker that makes the kind of music you listen to the most, sound the best.

As for surround receivers, Yamaha and Marantz offer great value for money units. Keep in mind that these are a trade-off. For best results in stereo AND surround mode, the more expensive option is to install seperate amp and surround processor. Look for the cheaper offerings from Linn, Musical Fidelity, and again, NAD.

Cables? For serious stereo sound, I haven't heard many people disagree with the rule of thumb that 10% of your should budget should be for cabling.

And subs - quite a few manufacturers produce subs that are designed to match the mains. While you can get away with a timbre mismatch with your sub more than your surround speakers, unless you want to spend top dollar on a great sub that is barely audible, buy a 'family' sub or at least conduct a lengthy audition of a different sub with your chosen mains.

bigkid wrote: I spent $1000 on components and made myself a ripper which goes very low (-3dB at 18Khz) and high quality output (no frequencies over or under - emphasised).

Isn't 18K a little HIGH for a sub???

Just my thoughts

.. and I forgot to mention...

at the heart of any good surround package is the centre channel. It is often overlooked (as I just did) but is where most of the dialog comes from with the modern recording formats. If you don't want this to sound disjointed from the rest of your system, it would be best again, to use the same speaker company. This is no doubt going to limit your choices of mains, as not everyone makes a decent centre speaker.

From what you have said, it seems as though the surround format is of secondary importance to you. In this case, my thoughts echo those of other forumites who have suggested that you keep the two apart, i.e. dedicated theatre in the 'family room', and dedicated stereo in your own room. Now not everyone has a spare room laying aroung, so, my suggestion here is one that many will no doubt be opposed to. Why not have two seperate systems in your one room.

Set up your main stereo system as you normally would (spending most of your money here), and then buy one of those decent in-a-box systems from Sony (or other) with either tall&slender or cube speakers, and set it up around the room. Sure, its not going to sound as good, but then for most people, HT is not about the highest quality sound, rather the 'surround experience'. These systems can capture this. Plus they are small, take up minimal floor space, and don't cost the earth (think less than $1000). And, you can spend the same money on a decent 2 channel amp that you would have on a multi channel, and get a better product. I have not tried this option myself, and I dont know how bad it will look having two lots of speakers on the floor, but its worth coonsidering nonetheless.

Furthermore, I strongly recommend going to Len Wallis Audio at Lane Cove. They have been strongly moving towards home theatre/ home automation over the last few years, however they continue to deal with the best stereo equipment on the planet. Worth a look.

Thanks for the help so far, greatly appreciated.

few more details to help.

Won't be going to Lane Cove, I live in Adelaide.

Budget initially is <$4,000

Not the biggest budget I know, I want to maximise the quality.

Music and great listening is the key for me, any surround Home Theatre will be a bonus. I suspect i'll be listening to music 80% plus of the time, home theatre incidentally.

bigkid wrote:"mphatic

bigkid wrote: I spent $1000 on components and made myself a ripper which goes very low (-3dB at 18Khz) and high quality output (no frequencies over or under - emphasised).

Isn't 18K a little HIGH for a sub???

Just my thoughts

Whoops! That should be 18Hz. In too much of a rush.

Allan

Gavin,

For the budget, I'd suggest you look at a NAD or Denon Processor (you may not have the option to go Pre-Processor + Power Amp otherwise you will have to cut corners elsewhere) there may also be something in your range from Rotel. Suggest you look at NAD or Rotel multi-format Disc player. For speakers, some of the Whatmough speakers (Melbourne) and Legend speakers (Canberra) are getting some very good reviews in a range to suit your budget. You can buy main speakers to start and then expand with the rest of the family later. I am particularly fond of the Legends which very accurate for their price. I can provide links to relevant sites if you are interested.

Regards,

Allan

I would second the recommendation for Rotel, I spent considerable time 18 months ago researching receivers and ended up with a Rotel for around $2k. Having lived with it for that time I have never regretted my decision. If you need a receiver but want something that will reproduce music failthfully, which were my main requirements too, I would go for Rotel rather than Denon. Denon are good but I don't think as musically pleasing as Rotel, $ for $. Marantz I wouldn't go near unless you are going for pure home theatre. There are other brands of course, but if you say $2k for receiver and $2k for speakers Rotel is your best option for the receiver.

Speakers are a whole other problem and unfortunately the requirements for stereo music vs 5.1 home theatre are very different. In your situation I would recommend selecting something that you find musically pleasing, but that can handle the high power and dynamics of movies.

You also need to consider the full 5.1 channels when selecting your front stereo speakers. The biggest mistake I see people make in your situation is selecting a pair of front speakers that fit all the right criteria both musically and home theatre, but when they are not part of a 5.1 channel set they go and buy some $300 centre channel and rears. This is a BIG mistake. On home theatre the centre channel carries most of the signal, this speaker must be as good as your front stereos if you don't want to be wasting your money in the home theatre stakes. If this is an issue for you, go without a centre channel altogether, this is far better than sticking in a cheap centre, just remember to configure your receiver correctly

As for brands/models of speakers I can't help much, I build my own so I haven't really looked at the retail market for a while.

Hope this helps!

Interesting stuff but what is the story with the formatting on this thread?

I've got what I consider to be a good mid range set up in my lounge room for home theatre. I bought it all in 2000 (being an early adopter and all that) and now a lot of it is much cheaper.

First TV. I know you said you weren't after one but I love my TV so I want to tell you about it! I've got a Grundig Xentia 86cm 100htz widescreen TV and it has the most amazing picture of any TV I've ever seen. Every time I walk into the lounge room and it's on, I just think, "I love my TV". I wander around showrooms these days and look at the LCD and plasmas and just think everyone's getting conned. The pictures are dreadful. Everyone who sees my TV on, comments on the picture. We have a digital set top box but it doesn't really make that much difference and rarely use it. You just can't beat CRT technology but you need the space and it won't hang on a wall. This standard of TV is now available around $1500 and we paid $4500 when we got it and don't begrudge one cent of it. It's also got a Dolby digital sound system in it. So much so we thought we had the surround sound already on the first time we turned it on but we didn't. The other good thing about this TV is that it has five AV inputs, of which we use all.

Anyway, for the sound we have a Bose all in one type system. It has an inbuilt CD player and Radio tuner and inputs for a variety of things, such as the DVD player, the VCR and the TV. It's hard to compare this system with the traditional types as they won't talk in watts or whatever. It was around $2500 but there is a newer version out that incorporates a DVD player and has the better, smaller, double speakers. The whole system is small and neat and the speakers sound great to me. It works very well for both music and surround but we also have two other stereo systems set up in other rooms and speakers throughout the house off these for just music. I know you're thinking components but this Bose sytem is easy to set up, looks great, does the job perfectly and sounds brilliant. It's also fully adjustable (as many are) for the sound and shape of your room. It also switches between stereo and 5.1 on the remote. The whole system is also well within your price range.

For DVDs we have a Pioneer five disc player. This cost $900 at the time! But again, we've got our money out of it. Having more than a single disc DVD player has been brilliant. It means we can stack it up with CDs if we're working around the house or in the kitchen and for TV series and 2 disc editions, can also load up with DVDs. God forbid you have to get up to change a disc once you've settled in! The pioneers are great DVD players and I'd highly recommend them.

Added to all this is a thomson set top box, which I wouldn't recommend (the worst instructions I've ever some across) and a JVC HiFi VCR and of course Foxtel. You should see all the remotes we have - they always get a comment! I'm now thinking about a foxtel IQ PDR and / or a pioneer DVD recorder with a big hard disc. Or should I get a combo DVD recorder and VCR. That's my conundrum at the moment.

But back to your problem Gavin. I would DEFINITELY recommend getting a dedicated surround sound system. If you want to buy a top end stereo, then do that seperately. I bought one cousin a Yamaha surround sound receiver for their wedding and they bought the speakers and it's been going great and they love it. I just bought another cousin a Sony, pretty low end system but again, they have a rubbish telly and DVD player but it will make a huge difference. If you want to go the component route, both the Yamahas and Pioneers are very good at a very reasonable price (Between $500 and $1000 gets you a pretty tidy receiver and you can spend the rest on speakers). The others mentioned above are all rather nice too.

When we have the surround sound on, it's like you're really there. One DVD expereince I vividly remember is in the movie Girlfight. Their apartment is in an old NY tenament and the way the sound is, they have rap music coming out of the right side speakers and a couple arguing out of the left side with the dialogue coming out of the centre channel and it sounds like you're there in the apartment with them, with all this background sound either side. They often do things like ring a door bell through just one speaker and it sounds like it really is ringing off in the distance. Do not underestimate the surround sound experience. When giving friends a demo, we often use the first charlies angels DVD as they jump out of a plane and the plane passes overhead with the roar going from front to back speakers. Then there's a series of explosions and heaps of good stuff to really demo the surround sound but equally, the quiet moments, like a single doorbell, can simply amaze you. We've never shown this without the person being completely blown away and just going, "I've got to get that".

I know you're saying you want it mainly for music but once you've got a nice setup, you will be truly amazed at the difference it can make to a night at home in front of the telly.

Have fun but remember it can be as obsessional as wine. My DVD collection rivals my wine collection!

This is an interesting thread. I've an old Denon, circa 87/88, integrated (pre-amp included) analogue amplifier with optical fibre bias control that has more power (105Wx2 main, 60wx2 secondary) than I've ever been able to use. In combination with a similar-vintage 16bit Nakamichi CD player I managed, without surge protectors, to fry a pair of Wharfdale 100W shelf speakers at about 2/3 on the amp volume control. Cost more than half purchase price to have the speakers repaired. The music sounded clean and crisp until I trashed the speakers, literally, during a period of madness. I guess the old rule of thumb still applies - use speakers of at least 150% RMS capacity of that of the amp, or receiver as it seems to be called these days. In a rare burst of enthusiasm I auditioned a pair of floor-standing Jamo speakers at an audio showroom, obviously not through my own amp and player - very impressed, thought them better than B&W, JBL and NAD(?).The Jamos were the shop owner's own 2nd-hand pair for $1000 and I've been kicking myself ever since for not buying them, not least because I still haven't speakers for the amp/CD!

I now have a new computer(Dell) in transit that I'll, hopefully, manage to install myself. 48cm LCD monitor/TV, surround sound with subwoofer, dvd/cd burner etc etc because I may've been brainwashed by the reputed burgeoning capabilities of PCs. Perfect for me, perhaps not for a family or entertaining, though kids would probably love the gaming capability that I'm not likely to use. I'm adopting the technology, early or late? I dunno, but a pair new speakers to resurrect the old Denon analogue amp is still on the agenda. I'm leaning towards JBL becuase I think they're good quality allrounders and I missed the bus on the Jamos.

Sure, good quality cables are important but wonder just how much difference 2-3 times price differential really makes to the average pair of ears. Yeah, most people think their hearing is better than others when it comes to reproduced sound but............it's still a matter of individual aural perception.

Yamaha has a now long history of supplying good quality hi-fi gear (and other music gear including instruments, as I'm sure you're aware). A label worth checking closely. Not really cheap but the QPR seems good, or at least used too. Many years ago I shared an abode with a muso who loved his Yammie tuner/amp.

The resonance through this thread seems to be - shop around, find what you like and go with it. But I'll add, keep in mind the march of computer technology.

Happy consternations

daz

Hi again Gavin,

The Whatmough Opus 30 Main Speakers have just been given a very positive review as stereo audio speakers, and as mains in a 5.1 setup, in the latest Australian Hi-Fi magazine. They retail for $1799. Also in the Opus family are centre speakers and rear 'FX' speakers. There is also a sub available. All can be purchased separately.

Here is a link:

http://www.whatmough.com

The following NAD receiver picked up a very positive review in Australian HT and retails for about a $1000. More powerful, slightly better specced models are also available for a little more. Don't let the 50 watts fool you, this is 50 watts in all six channels simultaneously. NAD tend to be more truthful in the specs on power output than some manufacturers. Either way, there are more powerful models available.

http://www.nadelectronics.com/av_receiv ... ramset.htm

And a multi-format Disc player:

http://europe.rotel.com/products/specs/rdv1050.htm

For something a little different, if space is an issue, this combination DVD/Processor from Rotel is getting a lot of positive feedback on the net.

http://europe.rotel.com/products/specs/rsdx02.htm

Hope this assists. You should have something left over for cables - put the squeeze on the supplier, maybe you'll get some thrown in.

Regards,

Allan

Allan,

Good to see someone mentioning Whatmough speakers!
I have a pair of 5series signature speaker and is a truly superb.
Gavin, if you want to splurge some cash go for the 5 series Signature. With this you would not need a subwoofer and surround speakers.

For an amplication, look for 2nd hand ME amplifiers, another Oz made.
www.me-au.com. He is restarting his business soon after the marriage breakdown.

Both Colin Whatmough and Peter Stein (ME) would be worth contacting for advises

I would say both products are life time investment. Don't forget to get a decent cable, but avoid all those fancy looking cable from DSE and Monster cable. When I did the auditioning(Monster) and not worth the money. Have a listen to Nordorst cables (very expensive) but worth listening to. Once again, ask above mentioned names for cables.

Take some cds that you are familiar with for evaluations.

Good luck and happy listening and drinking.

David

Oops, last message was for Gavin.

David

I have to agree with bacchaebabe on the surround sound. As I posted earlier I doubt that what we have is available in Oz, but the site might be useful to look at for some basic info on surround sound. We have a 6.1 Aperion system of speakers with an Onkyo receiver. From memory it cost around $3KUSD. But any movie we see these days on DVD is an excellent experience. And its not just the big noises that are emphasized but it can be the little things like the sound of a door opening and closing off camera that comes from the speaker closest to where the door would be if your living room were actually on the movie set. It can be amazingly realistic. Your kids will love you for it.

Mike

Hi Gavin,

I did some research on this a while back and it will come down to what you like the sound of, for the money. My budget was similar to yours (until we decided we were going to buy a house instead!) and for that money I found either a good Onkyo or Marantz amp (6.1) teamed with a Jensen Speaker set worked well. The other speakers I liked were Dali, but if you go for a good amp you may have to stretch the budget a bit or find a good deal. After months of listening to speaker sets, for my tastes, the Dali's were the ones for me. Good all round sound with little distortion, adequate bass and great mid range. Very clean sound with good reproduction. Give JB Hi Fi a look as they will have all these brands, and I think they should give you a good deal if buying as a package. There were some mentions of problems using a Onkyo/Dali combination, something to do with the Dali speakers having an incompatible speaker resistance, and subsequent difficulties with warranty claims, but I'm unsure if this hasn't been overcome.

If you're wanting something as both a stereo and home theatre, just get a speaker set where the two main tower speakers sound great as a stereo pair. The Jensens should do this well.

The best advice I was given when searching for home theatre was to take your favourite CD along and listen to it thru every different system/combination, as well as taking along a good DVD (something with alot going on like Star Wars etc). This should help you decide.


Happy shopping.


Jamie

Hi Gavin,

My first post in a while (despite good intentions of writing about two weeks in SA/VIC).

About six months ago I bought my second Home Theatre System, having lost the first via divorce tax. I stuck with a Yamaha amp, so I obviously like those, and went for KEF speakers. The front pair are obviously the most important for music, so worth spending big on. The centre speaker has to match as folks have pointed out, and is vital for HT. I'd recommend a pair of floor standing speakers at the front - they look tidier and tend to have lower bass response. That's particularly important if you're not getting an active sub for a while, and bass is directional, whatever they say. Personally I wouldn't spend much on the rear speakers at all, though I can hear the HT fans gasping now.

Usability is key, and unless you're a big fan, a combined DVD/amp is great. However I don't know if there is a good one available !

However the cheapest and best advice is position things well. I'd rather listen to a $500 DVD/AMP/speaker system with the speakers in the right place, than my friend's $15,000 system with the speakers all over the place.

Just more confusing advice ....

Cheers, Duncan

Gavin,

I bought a Pioneer System a few years ago for about $3,000 including two main speakers. Later I added (newer) center speaker and two surround speakers, so total cost would have been less than $4,000. Then I added a digital DRDR (which virtually never gets used ) and a big plasma which some how only seems to pick up the news, current affairs, The Bill and My Restuarant rules and thats about all.