The Auswine Forum

IÂ’d like to ask for some very basic help regarding fortifieds and stickies. Not just suggestions on what to drink, but also when and how to drink it. Other than the very few occasions when IÂ’ve been offered a glass of sherry or port by someone else, I have no experience at all with these wines (although we do have one bottle each of fino sherry and white port in the kitchen for cooking). There is little opportunity to taste them here, but IÂ’ll be in Melbourne for a week in April and thought I would like to broaden my horizons a bit while IÂ’m there. Is sherry most pre-dinner port for after dinner? But the different sherries especially sound like they will all taste very different, with considerable differences in sweetness. What would be best to start out with? Are they best at cool room temperature or chilled? Do they go well with certain foods (port and cheese?), or are they best sipped alone? With the added alcohol, does fortified keep indefinitely after opening?

And then there are the dessert wines. I know this is going to sound like a foolish question, but are dessert wines intended to be drunk with dessert or in place of dessert or after dessert? IÂ’ve never had a tokay or muscat or anything botrytis. Are these always intended as dessert wines, or are they also sipped like sherry maybe pre-dinner?

Any suggestions would be appreciated, and regarding specific wines, IÂ’d especially appreciate suggestions for things that are readily available (such as on restaurant wine lists) and, since IÂ’m just starting out in the area, moderately priced. Thanks.

I'll quote a little of Halliday from his 05 Companion on Food and Drink matches

Young botrytis: fresh fruits, cake
Chilled Fino: Cold Consomme
Amontillado: Warm Consomme
Young Muscat (or inexpensive muscat): Plum Pudding
Oloroso: Full flavoured hors douevres
Old Muscat (or expensive): Chocolate based desserts
Old Tokay: Creme Brulee
Vintage Port: Dried fruits, salty cheese

Dessert wines are meant to be served with dessert - ordinary dessert wines are a good match for fruit-based desserts. Fortified wines work with toffee/caramel (tokay) or chocolate (muscat). Tawny ports are traditionally served with cheese and nuts. The one crucial rule is that the wine must be at least as sweet as the dessert or it will be overwhelmed and taste dry.

Very sweet sherries, like fortified Pedro Ximinez, should probably be treated like tokays or muscats.

The very best tokays and muscats, like anything from Rutherglen with a 'Rare' or 'Museum' designation, are probably a dessert in themselves - anything else will disappoint alongside them. Same goes for 100 Year Old Para.

Recommended dessert wines:

De Bortoli Noble One
Miranda Golden Botrytis
anything by LillyPilly
Westend Golden Mist
(by and large, most dessert wines are from $12-25/half bottle retail.)

Also, more expensive and rarer

Petaluma Essence
Crawford River Necktar
Mount Horrocks Cordon Cut

Fortified Wines:

Penfolds Club Reserve Port (under $15)
De Bortoli Show Reserve Muscat (under $20)
Seppelt Para Liqueur Port ($20)
Seppelt Fino, Oloroso and Amontillado ($20)
Seppelt Grand Tokay and Grand Muscat ($25)
Stanton & Killeen Classic Muscat and Classic Tokay ($25)
De Bortoli Black Noble ($25)
Dutschke The Tokay, The Muscat and 22 yo port ($25-30)
Morris Old Premium Muscat and Old Premium Tokay ($60)
Seppelt Rare Tokay and Rare Muscat ($60)
Chambers Rare Muscat and Rare Tokay ($over 200) - just included so that I've mentioned the best of the best
Seppelt Para Liqueur Port 100 year old - $500

The Seppelt Grand stuff is probably a good example of the best you're likely to get for the money. By the way, when you go shopping for these things, go somewhere decent, like VC, First Estate or an independent store. Fortifieds that you can find at Liquorland are probably rubbish.

Kieran

Thanks Kieran for all the informatiion

It's a lot digest right away, but I'll copy out your post and read it over a few times and look up some of these on net and I'm sure this will help me come up with some specific questions. It seems like a whole new world of wine that I never looked at before and I'm looking forward to trying out a few things.

If you're in Melbourne for long enough and have a couple of days spare, try to arrange a trip to Rutherglen, which is where the best of the best is mostly made.

Kieran

I don't think we'll be able to get to Rutherglen, but a half day to Yarra should certainly be possible. I'll have to check, but is'nt De Bortoli there? I've seen the Noble One mentioned favorably, and it also appears to be on many restaurant menus, so it might be a good option for trying some botrytis. From what you said, we should be safe matching it with a fruit or cake type desert, staying away from thicker, sweeter things like caramel and chocolate?

I've seen a lot of mention of the Seppelt sherries being great qpr. If I were to get a bottle just to have a small glass at the hotel room before and/or after dinner without food, which would you suggest, the Oloroso or the Amontillado. I've read some tasting notes, but to be honest the two sounded pretty similar, almonds (roasted vs. salted?) and marmalade.

Bob wrote:I've seen a lot of mention of the Seppelt sherries being great qpr. If I were to get a bottle just to have a small glass at the hotel room before and/or after dinner without food, which would you suggest, the Oloroso or the Amontillado. I've read some tasting notes, but to be honest the two sounded pretty similar, almonds (roasted vs. salted?) and marmalade.

Hi Bob
The major difference between these sherries (amontillado & olorosso) are the way in which they are made. After primary fermentation all sherries (I'm talking Spanish here) are classified as either Fino (light) or Olorosso (Heavy) all finished Sherry styles are derived from these base wines. Amontillado is matured under "Flor" the living yeast that had fermented the wine that takes another (aerobic) metabolic pathway, forming a waxy coating on their cell walls and floating on the surface of the wine, becoming visible as a white layer about half an inch thick. Because the yeast is seen to "bloom" on the surface of the wine, it is known as "flor," Spanish for flower. If permitted to grow, flor imparts a tantalizing, yeastiness to the wine. Olorosos are not aged under flor and are fortified to a strength that kills the flor. They mature with exposure to air.
To create Amontillado a mature Fino is allowed to lose its flor, either by not replenishing or by additional fortification to a higher alcohol level, which will kill the flor layer. Exposed to air, the Fino oxidizes into a nutty, rich, amber colored sherry as it is further aged in cask. Wines destined to become oloroso are fortified to a higher strength of around 18% to prevent the formation of flor. Most Olorosos are sweetened before bottling with Pedro Ximénez or even sugar syrups. So to sum up these are very different beasts the amontillado makes (to my mind) an excellent aperitif and matches well with food. Whilst the olorossos are Me, Me, Me kind of wines that eschew the company of food. If I was sitting & sipping in a hotel room it would be Olorosso every time. My $0.02.
Cheers Andrew

Thanks Andrew,

We've booked a room with a little lounge area and a gas fireplace in Melbourne, and it would seem a shame not to spend a little time sipping something before going out for dinner or after getting back or both. I'm interested in trying out some Oz fortifieds and stickies, but have zero knowledge in this area and much appreciate the suggestions from the forum members on some places to begin.

The Yarra Valley isn't exactly a hotspot for sweet wines. De Bortoli Yarra Valley is operationally separate to De Bortoli Riverina and they won't have Noble One or Black Noble on show, although they might have some under the counter.

Probably easiest to buy some 02 Noble One (excellent vintage and should be easy to find) and have it after dinner.

Kieran

Bob wrote:Thanks Andrew,

We've booked a room with a little lounge area and a gas fireplace in Melbourne, and it would seem a shame not to spend a little time sipping something before going out for dinner or after getting back or both. I'm interested in trying out some Oz fortifieds and stickies, but have zero knowledge in this area and much appreciate the suggestions from the forum members on some places to begin.

Bob:

You are in for a real treat with fortifieds. If push came to shove and I could only have one type of wine it would be Aussie fortifieds, the muscats in particular. Kieran has given you a pretty good listing. The Seppelts line-up is excellent. I’ve culled some notes from our recent trip to Seppeltsfield where we tasted the “Rare” series, just to whet your whistle!

The 21 Year Old Para Liqueur Barossa Valley Tawny (1983) was almost rosé in color and slightly closed but opened beautifully in the mouth. Rich and luscious, it had caramel and Christmas cake flavors and a lengthy finish. (2,2,4.3,10.2=18.5/20). The DP 90 Rare Barossa Valley Tawny was hazel brown. Rich, complex and very well balanced, it oozed walnuts and raisins over an extremely long finish. (2,2,4.4,10.5=18.9/20). The DP 59 Rare Rutherglen Tokay looked like treacle, and gave flavors of treacle, molasses and coffee, and a finish that lingered and lingered. (2,2, 4.5,10.6=19.1/20) A Classic Wine! The GR 113 Rare Rutherglen Muscat was not quite as deep in color as the Tokay but was a much richer wine with toffee and caramel and ripe raisins, and a beautifully long finish. (2,2,4.5,10.7=19.2/20) Another entry for the Classic Wines section.

We brought home several bottles including the DP 59 and the Dutschke Muscat. We just finished a 750ml bottle of the DP 63 Grand Muscat (outstanding value). Actually I got to see very little of the DP 63 because my wife kept it from me. She even went so far as to put the last couple of glasses into a “hip flask” so she could have an evening tipple at a conference in Las Vegas!

IÂ’d also suggest the Muscats and Tokays of RL Buller, and Yalumba has excellent value in their Museum Fortified Muscat. The biggest problem with being overseas is that there is very limited access to these wines, and we see very few here in the USA particularly from Seppelts. Fortunately the American palate does not seem to have taken to this type of wine, even after Parker awarded big points to wines from Buller, Dutschke etc.

Enjoy your time down under and if you get a chance visit Rutherglen, it really is worth it. We will be in Melbourne in December and Rutherglen is one place we will definitely be visiting.

Mike

Kieran wrote:The Yarra Valley isn't exactly a hotspot for sweet wines. De Bortoli Yarra Valley is operationally separate to De Bortoli Riverina and they won't have Noble One or Black Noble on show, although they might have some under the counter.

Probably easiest to buy some 02 Noble One (excellent vintage and should be easy to find) and have it after dinner.

Kieran

Tahnks Kieran,
I most likely would have gone up to De Bortoli in the Yarra without considering that. Now that you mention it, I do remember seeing Riverina as the region for the Noble One, but it just didn't register.

One other question. How long do these things last once they are opened? Can I just stick a cork in a bottle of sherry and pop it in the cupboard for drinking over a couple months?

Most fortified styles will keep for a few months at least when opened. The main exception is Vintage Port (or Vintage Fortified Shiraz/other new name since they can't call it port) which should be consumed in a couple of weeks.

Kieran

Thanks again Kieran.

Hope you don't mind, but here's another question. What about serving temp? I'm guessing chilled for fino, very chilled for Nobel One and other desert wines, and cool room temp (or maybe even standard room temp like a cognac?) for the other fortifieds. Does that sound anywhere near right?

Yes, room temperature for most fortifieds. I think ordinary fridging is sufficient for other stickies - no need to superchill like cheap bubbly.

Kieran

KMP wrote:Bob:

You are in for a real treat with fortifieds. If push came to shove and I could only have one type of wine it would be Aussie fortifieds, the muscats in particular. Kieran has given you a pretty good listing.

Mike

Thanks Mike. I'm looking forward to exploring fortifieds, as I've often read that this is an area in which Oz really excels, and it seems that the people who enjoy them are very passionate about them. There is no guarantee that I will fall completely in love with them myself, but I wanted to approach them in the right way to give them a proper chance. Without Kieran's advice I'm sure I would have botched it on my own.

Kieran wrote:Yes, room temperature for most fortifieds. I think ordinary fridging is sufficient for other stickies - no need to superchill like cheap bubbly.

Kieran

Thanks Kieran for all the help. I think I'm ready to try a few things. I may even be able to get a couple of bottles (I'm thinking the Seppelt Grand Tokay and Grand Muscat) sent up to us here to try even before we head to Melbourne next month. Thanks again.

Kieran wrote:De Bortoli Yarra Valley is operationally separate to De Bortoli Riverina and they won't have Noble One or Black Noble on show, although they might have some under the counter.

I visited De Bortoli Yarra Valley a couple of weeks ago and they do have Black Noble available for tasting, it is included on their tasting list.