The Auswine Forum

Has anyone tried this wine? Last time I purchased a few vintages ago it was about $40, now it more like $65. Has the quality improved? Is it worth $65.

Thanks

Justin

Justin,

My notes from the Vic Wine Expo:

Coldstream Hills Reserve Pinot Noir 2000
No 2001 made so the 2000 is still around. Restrained on the nose compared to the ‘standard’. Vet good complexity on the palate with secondary characters coming through. Nice and broad across the palate , fine tannin and a nice full finish. Excellent

Is is worth the money murray? ie would you buy it?

anthony

If it was $40-50, probably, but if it's $60 as noted, it's a bit rich in a competitive premium pinot market alnogside the Bannockburns, Bindis.and others.
Murray

Murray,

That's a good call on the prices.

As an interesting side, the consistent producers in tassie all seem to have decided that $60+ is now the standard asking price for their wines, after the stellar 2000 vintage (my faves from this year - 1 panorama, 2 no regrets, 3 freycinet. my faves from 2001 - 1 freycinet).

In 2001 Panorama have gone one step better, releasing a 'reserve' wine for $160/pb.


JWR

I think Pinot producers in australia have to be careful. For $60 plus I can think of a lot of nz pinot (or even burgundy) that I would rather buy.
Tassie is so marginal and ok they might be able to charge good money in good/great years but they have to realize that in bad years they will be very very overpriced (that is unless they drop there prices and that is doubtful).

cheers
anthony

Murray,

Did you tried the Pinot Noirs from Moondarah during the Expo? They are stunning--infinitely better than the Coldstream Hills!

Alan,

I missed the Moondarah's which is a pity, I've seen them in the shops, with very steep pricing, and would have liked to check them out.

Justin B. wrote:Has anyone tried this wine? Last time I purchased a few vintages ago it was about $40, now it more like $65. Has the quality improved? Is it worth $65.

Thanks

Justin

Justin

tried it at Brisbane RNA a month or so ago

the quality has not improved and this year have tried the 97 98 as well

is it worth the dosh? a big NO

go and buy a regular Felton Road

michel

Thanks everyone for your help.

Justin

I must say that a lot of oz maker's of pinot noir should be very careful about jacking up their prices too much - I am yet to be convinced that any oz pinot is worth much over $50 compared with the real stuff.

For example currently in Sydney you can get:

Tollot Beaut 1999 Chorey les Beaune for $44 a bottle and
Geantet Pansiot 1999 Gevrey VChambertin "Les Juene Rois " for $69

A couple of reviews I randomnly picked off the net showed that while they are only village wines they are not too bad - and this is a great vintage.
Domaine Tollot-Beaut
1999 Chorey-Les-Beaune
Red fruits, big primary punch with enough acidity and tannin to carry it. One of the best Choreys I have ever had. Very Good+ and Excellent

''99 Domaine Tollot-Beaut, Chorey-Cote-De-Beaune----Rich nose of black cherry and earth with a hint of mushroom and spice. Much more full bodied than I expect from a Burgundy, but I like it. Plenty of ripe fruit and balancing acids

Gevrey-Chambertin, Les Jeunes Rois, Vincent Geantet-Pansiot 1999
Clive Coates MW Dec 01 2000
Lovely fruit on the nose. Quite different from the Chambolle. More cassis and plums, less red fruit. Fullish weight. Rich. Very ripe tannins. Very concentrated. A lovely example, especially for a village wine. Very intense at the end. Fine. From 2007


So think hard before paying megabucks for oz pinot - ps recently had a bottle of 2001 Clemens Hill pinot noir from Tasmania - just near Richmond- excellent cherry nose with great fruit weight on the palate - no wonder it won a gold at the Tas Show - how much - $25 - very good value

Cheers

Paul

Paul

Whilst i share your concern about Aus producers jacking up the prices of pinot which in my view are largely overpriced compared to other varieties the comment about french pinot being the 'real stuff' is a worry.

Is this just related to pinot or is it a part of a 'Francophile' mindset which assumes that French wines are the only real wines and all other wines are only poor cousins to be assessed only on the basis of how they stack up against their french counterparts.

Barney

You make a good point and hopefully will stop me in future from writing sloppy comments.

I guess I was just comparing the price of oz pinot with an area that has been making the stuff for over 200 years and in that time has been able to really pinpoint in a spatial sense where pinot fruit really blossoms and can potentially produce wine of enormous complexity. Now there’s a lot of dross red burgundy still today, but that is generally the maker’s fault – over cropped, dirty cellars, poor wine handling and bottling etc. Given a productive very good to great year such as 1999, I don’t believe you can get better value pinot in the world than village and premier cru level burgundy from an excellent producer. Crappy wet years of course is the exact opposite.

Now in Australia we have come a long way with pinot but in a relative sense we are still feeling our way. We now have a better understanding in a regional sense where best to grow pinot, but we still are working out what’s the best soil, clone, trellis, aspect etc. to grow rich and complex pinot. Now I would argue that’s not the case with shiraz - we have been going it long enough and experimented long enough to know what works and what doesn’t. While stylistically there is a considerable range of shiraz wine styles in oz – at the upper end they compare in structure and complexity with anything grown overseas. As yet that’s generally not the case with pinot – same as champagne

Thanks for making me think a bit about it.

Cheer

Paul

Murray wrote:Alan,

I missed the Moondarah's which is a pity, I've seen them in the shops, with very steep pricing, and would have liked to check them out.

Hey Murray

Your avatar's stuffing up the forum's size and definition!!

Oops, sorry Gav,

Is this better?

Murray

A bit phallic isn't it?

Cheers

Paul

..there have been more than a few $30 to $50 aus pinot's i've tried that have been very average. It pays to research if you like pinot's. I've tried a few Bass Phillips, both premium and reserve as well as Village and estate. They were all nice wines..with the reserve wines being quite amazing. Were they good value..no way. I have found many kiwi pinots much better value ..Palliser estate, Isabel, Wither Hills, Felton Block 3 , Waipara Springs Reserve (a steal at $27) and Villa Maria Reserve among my favourites..

Among aussies i like Bannockburn, Bindi, Salitage, De Bertoli Yarra Valley and Sticks Yarra Valley as a cheapie.

It's hard to justify the bucks on aussie pinot when for similar bucks you can get premium red wine in just about any other variety reasonably safely. I recently bought a 1994 Houghtons Jack Mann Cabernet for $40 and a 1974 Penfolds St Henri for $90 (an amazing wine..a museum release recorked and checked in 1997 by John Duvalle)..compared to those purchases pinots represent poor value for money in many instances.though it is still my favourite grape..and i will continue to spend more money than i should drinking it.

Paul T,
Bad news on the Waipara Springs Res. Pinot Noir 02, price is now N$38 and wont be much less in Aust. Like you i thought this was a steel at $27 (or should that read a fair price for its quality ) This makes it the same price as the Black Estate 02, the Pegasus Bay O2 is $4 dearer, both from Waipara and Superior wines.
I think there is a philosophy that the dearer you make your P/N the more appealing to the market, like keeping up with the neighbours, if most of the bottles out there are $40-50 yours looks inferior so irrespective of costs crank it up to going rate. have spoken to couple of winemakers on that topic ,its not far from the truth, guess it gives them a bit of room to move if the market collapses.
Unfortunately Paul the search goes on for that good PQR Pinot Noir.

Cheers,

Geoffrey