Grenache

[saturn5519]

As i am relatively new to wines and wanting to learn about reds other than shiraz/cab sav so i'm wanting to taste other varieties.A mate suggested i try some Grenache.What regions would you suggest to try and what should i expect in tastes and smells.Sorry about the questions.

[I Love Shiraz]

The two best regions in Australia are Barossa Valley and McLaren Vale. I prefer McLaren Vale over Barossa. The most exciting area for Grenache is the Blewitt Springs sub-region of McLaren Vale.

Expect red fruits - red currants, cherries, raspberries, strawberries, etc.

[Sean]

Welcome to the forum.

You are going to love drinking Grenache. Just don’t tell anyone else about it.

Typically they will have great aromatics, less oak and tannin, and a softer feel to them.

Fruit character will be pretty obvious, often red fruits (not lollyish in better wines), spice and earth.

Barossa Valley and McLaren Vale offer lots of options - they have old bush vines and some of the winemakers are probably obsessed with it.

These wines will be easy to find and are good examples of Grenache. The Torbreck is actually a blend, but it is also worth trying.

Cirillo The Vincent Grenache $25
Barossa Valley

Chapel Hill The MV Bush Vine Grenache $30
McLaren Vale

Artisans of Barossa Barrel Blend Grenache $20
Barossa Valley

Pepperjack Grenache $20
McLaren Vale

Peter Lehmann The Barossan Grenache $22
Barossa Valley

Torbreck Cuvee Juveniles Grenache Blend $32
Barossa Valley

[Ian S]

I like the thrust of Sean's reply, giving a useful 'what to expect' and offering up practical examples. Real potential for similar posts on other grapes.

FWIW, for my palate, it's a grape that has yet to offer much appeal. In part this is down to liking some tannic structure in wines, so the lack of tannins / softness actually becomes a negative, where for some it's a positive. The fruit profile (vibrant raspberry often the lead flavour/aroma) also counts against it for me, but for those who like raspberries, it really ought to be sought out. The lolly / confected comment a good one, as this extreme can be most dislikeable for me, especially if light on acidity.

I'm not against it in a blend, especially as a direct contrast to the more savoury Mourvedre/Mataro, with Shiraz/Syrah usually in the mix as well.

The grape's re-emergence, via the interest in very old (and wonderfully gnarly - the pics of them are wonderful) vines, was interesting to follow, with the likes of torbreck actively hunting out such vineyards. That I'm sure is part of the reason behind the obsession, seeing the old vines as a natural asset to appreciate and protect.

For those exploring, there are plenty of Spanish Garnachas to explore, but perhaps Southern France (inc. southern Rhone) might prove easier to find. Of all the examples I've tried, Gigondas has appealed more to my tastes, but I suspect most I've enjoyed have had a very substantial amount of syrah in the blend/cepage.

[phillisc]

TBH, its not a variety that I am enamoured with.
That said, do enjoy Rockford Dry Country and the one made by Bondar in the Vale.

Cheers Craig

[Sean]

You got me thinking about this a bit more.

Recognising where it grows has been influential, particularly around the Barossa and McLaren Vale.

With the latter, Blewitt Springs often gets mentioned because of the higher altitude and those sandy soils. The vines have to work a bit harder, they are dry grown and they try to avoid the old school, big alcohol sweet Grenache style.

The winemaking has been changing too, or got more Grenache specific. A bit like Pinot winemaking, with some of them using whole bunch for example.

But very different to a Pinot, because they use much less oak. Old oak vats/casks or a mix of barrels and tank or even no oak at all. All the work is really in the vineyard, and controlling the exuberance of the grape as well as its natural tannins and alcohol.

So you see wines these days with florals and herbs rather than jammy, raspberry Grenaches. Rather than a simple fruity wine, you get texture and subtle tannins.

Also while the OP was asking about the straight varietal, obviously the GSM or SGM blends offer another take on this.

I prefer the grenache-based ones like the old pre-Gago Penfolds 138s. And I drank a lot of d’Arenberg d’Arry’s Originals over the years, which was a rustic style of grenache and shiraz usually a 50/50 blend.

Or even go to the original source I suppose, which are the GSMs of southern Rhone or Cotes du Rhone. You got the basic AOC wines from M. Chapoutier and Guigal for example. Then a world to explore of French GSMs with the Village wines, village named wines and Cru.

If you get a taste for it, you might never think about drinking a shiraz or Cab again.

[saturn5519]

Thanks for the info.As recommended i purchased Peter Lehmann 2021 the Barossan Grenache today.First thing i noticed was the alcohol percent being 14.5%.Fairly high for a medium body wine or maybe not.
Yes definite initial aromas of red berries and spice.On the palate there is that lolly sweet taste but it's not overwhelming.
Overall it's a nice wine.I will try a Mclaren Vale next to compare.
As suggested the idea of providing info on other not so well known wine varieties is a good idea.

[Michael McNally]

Hi Saturn

I started getting into Grenache in a big way probably six or seven years ago. Along with some of the other peeps on this forum we got together and tried four 2014 Grenaches made in different ways (berries, whole bunch, pressings and a blend) by Rob Mack at Aphelion and it was a fascinating exercise. I now buy more Grenache than Cabernet, Shiraz or Pinot.

If you have a good independent bottle shop nearby, they will probably have a range of Grenache for you to try. If you can it is probably worth getting a few as the styles can vary. The more readily available one like the Peter Lehman you have tried sometimes err on the sweeter fruit side so as to appeal to a wider range of palates. I prefer more savoury styles. For me one of the best thing about good Grenache as opposed to most other reds (except perhaps Pinot) is the texture. The better examples can be quite light in terms of colour and fruit flavour, but are often pippy and grippy with powdery/feathery tannin that can give good length on a savoury finish. Examples I have in my cellar include (in alphabetical order):
Aphelion (McLaren)
Bondar (McLaren)
Cirillo (Barossa)
Dodgy Bros (McLaren)
Head Wines (Barossa)
Heirloom (McLaren)
John Duval (Barossa)
Koerner (Clare)
Longhop (Adelaide Plains)
The Story (Grampians)
Thistledown (McLaren)
Turkey Flat (Barossa)
Vanguardist (McLaren)
Varney Wines (McLaren)
Yangarra (McLaren)

Some of these producers have quality examples around the $30 mark. If you can get up above $40 there are some pretty shmick wines.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Michael

[saturn5519]

Hello Michael
Thanks for the info.I will definately look into those choices.Unfortunately we only have Dan Murphys/1st Choice/BWS and no independent
sellers.Can you recommend a good liquor store in Brisbane as i'm going there next week?
Cheers Pete

[saturn5519]

Hello Michael
Thanks for the info.I will definately look into those choices.Unfortunately we only have Dan Murphys/1st Choice/BWS and no independent
sellers.Can you recommend a good liquor store in Brisbane as i'm going there next week?
Cheers Pete

[Michael McNally]

Hi Pete

Yes we are privleged here!

Depends on where in Brisbane you will be! The Wine Experience at Rosalie has an excellent selection. Craft also. More central are Cru Cellars and Wine Emporium. Any of them should have the range and someone to help you with selection.

If you are in town for a while, happy to catch up and love an excuse to open a bottle or two..... send me a PM if you are keen.

Cheers

Michael

[A_Steady]

Hi Saturn

I started getting into Grenache in a big way probably six or seven years ago. Along with some of the other peeps on this forum we got together and tried four 2014 Grenaches made in different ways (berries, whole bunch, pressings and a blend) by Rob Mack at Aphelion and it was a fascinating exercise. I now buy more Grenache than Cabernet, Shiraz or Pinot.

If you have a good independent bottle shop nearby, they will probably have a range of Grenache for you to try. If you can it is probably worth getting a few as the styles can vary. The more readily available one like the Peter Lehman you have tried sometimes err on the sweeter fruit side so as to appeal to a wider range of palates. I prefer more savoury styles. For me one of the best thing about good Grenache as opposed to most other reds (except perhaps Pinot) is the texture. The better examples can be quite light in terms of colour and fruit flavour, but are often pippy and grippy with powdery/feathery tannin that can give good length on a savoury finish. Examples I have in my cellar include (in alphabetical order):
Aphelion (McLaren)
Bondar (McLaren)
Cirillo (Barossa)
Dodgy Bros (McLaren)
Head Wines (Barossa)
Heirloom (McLaren)
John Duval (Barossa)
Koerner (Clare)
Longhop (Adelaide Plains)
The Story (Grampians)
Thistledown (McLaren)
Turkey Flat (Barossa)
Vanguardist (McLaren)
Varney Wines (McLaren)
Yangarra (McLaren)

Some of these producers have quality examples around the $30 mark. If you can get up above $40 there are some pretty shmick wines.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Michael

Hi Michael, of your list I've only tried Cirillo, Dodgy Bros, Vanguardist and Yangarra - I have also tried Eperosa and Rockford. Apart from the Vanguardist I tried all at the CD before purchasing.

I have liked most Grenache I've tried even though they are different styles.

Are you (or anyone else here) familiar with the Heirloom Alcala McLaren Vale Grenache? is it a similar style to any of the Grenache I have tried before?

Cheers

Steady

[ticklenow1]

Hi Saturn

I started getting into Grenache in a big way probably six or seven years ago. Along with some of the other peeps on this forum we got together and tried four 2014 Grenaches made in different ways (berries, whole bunch, pressings and a blend) by Rob Mack at Aphelion and it was a fascinating exercise. I now buy more Grenache than Cabernet, Shiraz or Pinot.

If you have a good independent bottle shop nearby, they will probably have a range of Grenache for you to try. If you can it is probably worth getting a few as the styles can vary. The more readily available one like the Peter Lehman you have tried sometimes err on the sweeter fruit side so as to appeal to a wider range of palates. I prefer more savoury styles. For me one of the best thing about good Grenache as opposed to most other reds (except perhaps Pinot) is the texture. The better examples can be quite light in terms of colour and fruit flavour, but are often pippy and grippy with powdery/feathery tannin that can give good length on a savoury finish. Examples I have in my cellar include (in alphabetical order):
Aphelion (McLaren)
Bondar (McLaren)
Cirillo (Barossa)
Dodgy Bros (McLaren)
Head Wines (Barossa)
Heirloom (McLaren)
John Duval (Barossa)
Koerner (Clare)
Longhop (Adelaide Plains)
The Story (Grampians)
Thistledown (McLaren)
Turkey Flat (Barossa)
Vanguardist (McLaren)
Varney Wines (McLaren)
Yangarra (McLaren)

Some of these producers have quality examples around the $30 mark. If you can get up above $40 there are some pretty shmick wines.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Michael

Hi Michael, of your list I've only tried Cirillo, Dodgy Bros, Vanguardist and Yangarra - I have also tried Eperosa and Rockford. Apart from the Vanguardist I tried all at the CD before purchasing.

I have liked most Grenache I've tried even though they are different styles.

Are you (or anyone else here) familiar with the Heirloom Alcala McLaren Vale Grenache? is it a similar style to any of the Grenache I have tried before?

Cheers

Steady

Steady/Saturn,

Michael pretty much nailed it with his suggestions, although I would add Eperosa, In Praise of Shadows, Brothers at War, Hayes Family and SC Pannel to that list. Grenache is my grape of choice and has been for many years. I find I'm drifting towards Blewitt Springs (McLaren Vale) as my region of choice these days. Wines from there are more savoury, more delicate, so complex and some could even be mistaken for a big Pinot sometimes. Thankfully, the days of overblown, high alcohol, sweet fruited Grenache's are gone and have replaced by delicate, elegant and fine wines. Currently, I think Vanguardist (Blewitt Springs fruit) is making the best Grenache in Australia at the moment, but there are so many at the pointy end. In the Barossa, Cirillo (oldest Grenache vines in the World) and Eperosa are right up there. Look out for wines made from the Stonegarden vineyard in the Eden Valley. Pretty much every wine I've had that comes off that vineyard (150+ years old) has been magnificent. Other regions are also producing high quality wines too. I've recently purchased Cobaw Ridge (Pyrenees), Dhillon (Heathcote), Serrat (Yarra Valley) and Swinney (Frankland River). Good Grenache doesn't have to come from South Australia.

As for the Heirloom, it's an excellent wine, but is often found on discount sites a lot cheaper than RRP. I have a few bottles in the cellar.

Cheers
Ian

[Michael McNally]

Hi Michael, of your list I've only tried Cirillo, Dodgy Bros, Vanguardist and Yangarra - I have also tried Eperosa and Rockford. Apart from the Vanguardist I tried all at the CD before purchasing.

I have liked most Grenache I've tried even though they are different styles.

Are you (or anyone else here) familiar with the Heirloom Alcala McLaren Vale Grenache? is it a similar style to any of the Grenache I have tried before?

Cheers

Steady

Hi Steady

As Ian says, the Alcala is a good wine, though possibly not worth the RRP - I only have a couple of 2017s left.

Probably closer to the Yangarra Old Vines than the others in your list.

The variety of styles is one of the things I love about Grenache!

Cheers

Michael

[A_Steady]

Hi Michael, of your list I've only tried Cirillo, Dodgy Bros, Vanguardist and Yangarra - I have also tried Eperosa and Rockford. Apart from the Vanguardist I tried all at the CD before purchasing.

I have liked most Grenache I've tried even though they are different styles.

Are you (or anyone else here) familiar with the Heirloom Alcala McLaren Vale Grenache? is it a similar style to any of the Grenache I have tried before?

Cheers

Steady

Hi Steady

As Ian says, the Alcala is a good wine, though possibly not worth the RRP - I only have a couple of 2017s left.

Probably closer to the Yangarra Old Vines than the others in your list.

The variety of styles is one of the things I love about Grenache!

Cheers

Michael

Thanks Michael and Ian,

I was gifted a dozen of the Alcala and was trying to get a feel for how excited I should (or shouldn't) be, AP tracking has them arriving tomorrow or the next day.

I have been working my way through half a dozen '17 Yangarra Old Vine over the last 4 odd years and I like its varietal style.

With a Dozen of the Alcala I should get to see them evolve over quite a few years but its a double edged sword with the space taken up by 12 of the same wine.

Steady

[saturn5519]

Thanks fellow wine lovers for all the different suggestions.I did'nt realise there was so many producers out there.
I think i'm going to have to do some major grovelling to the F D (financial director).So wish me luck
Cheers
Pete

[kenzo]

Great recommendations above. As a point of difference from the new style of finer-boned Grenache wines, you may also want to try a Greenock Creek Cornerstone. This is the full-bodied, full-bore old style - or used to be!

[ticklenow1]

Are you (or anyone else here) familiar with the Heirloom Alcala McLaren Vale Grenache? is it a similar style to any of the Grenache I have tried before?

Cheers

Steady

The 2022 version of the Alcala is half price as a mystery wine on one website at the moment.

Cheers
Ian

[A_Steady]

Are you (or anyone else here) familiar with the Heirloom Alcala McLaren Vale Grenache? is it a similar style to any of the Grenache I have tried before?

Cheers

Steady

The 2022 version of the Alcala is half price as a mystery wine on one website at the moment.

Cheers
Ian

My dozen freebees arrived Wednesday so plan to try one over the weekend

[A_Steady]

Are you (or anyone else here) familiar with the Heirloom Alcala McLaren Vale Grenache? is it a similar style to any of the Grenache I have tried before?

Cheers
Steady

The 2022 version of the Alcala is half price as a mystery wine on one website at the moment.

Cheers
Ian

My dozen freebees arrived Wednesday so plan to try one over the weekend

Popped n poured then consumed over a couple of hours - selectively quoting dave vino's note in the Sami Watch thread It is "...young and pokey with seemingly disparate components needing to come together,..."

I will try to remember to open one a few days prior to the weekend and see what some air does.