Ha, ha, too funny!WAwineguy wrote:I'd prefer to drink it out of the bottle then. At least you get all of it!DaveS wrote:Stemless are good when you’re with a crowd that want to drink beer and you want to have a wine. You can sit with it in your hand and not look like a wa#ker.
What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
-
Mahmoud Ali
- Posts: 2943
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Hi Mahmoud
It certainly possible where many of the top estates pursue one approach and many of the minor estates pursue another. As Jancis alludes, she prefers more traditional than modern, with St Emilion big boys to a large degree pursuing very modernist winemaking
Beyond that, it is feasible that in warmer / hotter vintages, wine that normally struggle for ripeness (through position on the slopes, local geography or simply latitude) can handle the added heat with ease, whereas the normally prestigious slopes get baked by the sun.
Whilst the reverse could also be true, historically the best sites have often been determined by those with the best exposure to the sun, plus soil / other aspects of terroir. Maybe as the historic regions pass from marginal on the ripeness side, to marginal on the over-ripeness side, that we might see the reverse happening more often, that cold vintages might really open up the best of a vineyard. In the spirit of being challenging, is that already true in the wine heartlands of Australia?
It certainly possible where many of the top estates pursue one approach and many of the minor estates pursue another. As Jancis alludes, she prefers more traditional than modern, with St Emilion big boys to a large degree pursuing very modernist winemaking
Beyond that, it is feasible that in warmer / hotter vintages, wine that normally struggle for ripeness (through position on the slopes, local geography or simply latitude) can handle the added heat with ease, whereas the normally prestigious slopes get baked by the sun.
Whilst the reverse could also be true, historically the best sites have often been determined by those with the best exposure to the sun, plus soil / other aspects of terroir. Maybe as the historic regions pass from marginal on the ripeness side, to marginal on the over-ripeness side, that we might see the reverse happening more often, that cold vintages might really open up the best of a vineyard. In the spirit of being challenging, is that already true in the wine heartlands of Australia?
-
Mahmoud Ali
- Posts: 2943
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Hi Ian,
There is no doubt major and minor chateaux pursue different approaches, that has always been the case, often because of the cost involved and the prices they can command. However, the point I was trying to make was that given a vintage assessment where the grapes are universally good, all the chateaux, whatever their approach, should be making good wines in their own fashion. Of course there are exceptions. I'm reminded of the 1982 vintage where the wines were pretty good across the board and drank well almost all through their life. In my case, with the 1982, I ended up with an exception in Leoville las Cases that needed decades.
Otherwise all your points are entirely valid.
There is no doubt major and minor chateaux pursue different approaches, that has always been the case, often because of the cost involved and the prices they can command. However, the point I was trying to make was that given a vintage assessment where the grapes are universally good, all the chateaux, whatever their approach, should be making good wines in their own fashion. Of course there are exceptions. I'm reminded of the 1982 vintage where the wines were pretty good across the board and drank well almost all through their life. In my case, with the 1982, I ended up with an exception in Leoville las Cases that needed decades.
Otherwise all your points are entirely valid.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
I think in general good vintages that produce good lesser wines will produce good premium cuvees...but I guess that also depends on the style you're looking for as I can just as easily say I prefer lesser vintages for some wines as well...
Plus there is more to it than that as well..it isn't like they have to be picked at the same time..and the vineyards are managed differently..the winemaker is different..the general quality of the fruit will tend to be better at the more well known places simply because they have the funds or they care more...
Plus there is more to it than that as well..it isn't like they have to be picked at the same time..and the vineyards are managed differently..the winemaker is different..the general quality of the fruit will tend to be better at the more well known places simply because they have the funds or they care more...
-
Mahmoud Ali
- Posts: 2943
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
I agree Polymer. Good vintages, in general, make good wines across the board. Also, that in weaker vintages the regular wine may be preferable because the wines are not suited to the extraction, new wood, etc. that goes into the making of premium wines.Polymer wrote:I think in general good vintages that produce good lesser wines will produce good premium cuvees...but I guess that also depends on the style you're looking for as I can just as easily say I prefer lesser vintages for some wines as well...
Mahmoud.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
This thread has been a darned good read so I thought we all could add to the previous list of posts. What I was going to say now I said then so I won’t repeat myself.
Imugene, cure for cancer.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
well, well, well. Good time to re-visit.
2005 Burgundy is over-rated (I said this 5 years ago)
Yes, as it was/is proclaimed the greatest vintage of all-time, it remains seriously over-rated. Ridiculous. Even in just this century, IMO clearly inferior to 2009, 2015 and 2019, and highly-likely 2002, 2010 and possibly 2022. The Burgundians have become much better in managing viticulture and viniculture in the ever-increasing number of solar vintages, and recent vintages display that improvement over 2005.
Yes, no doubt the 2005 DRC's and Rousseau's etc. will be immortal, but I'm so sick of wine scribes judging a vintage on the 1% mountain peak. The majority of wines are chewy, tannic and lack the ethereal qualities seen in the best vintages. Indeed, I'd rather drink 2017's at the moment.
Leeuwin Estate makes a better chardonnay than Giaconda.
(but there is stuff coming out of the Adelaide hills that may overtake both in 20-30 years)
Viognier has no place in Australian shiraz wines, leave that blend to the Northern Rhone where it belongs
(if I want apricots, I nip off to Coles)
2005 Burgundy is over-rated (I said this 5 years ago)
Yes, as it was/is proclaimed the greatest vintage of all-time, it remains seriously over-rated. Ridiculous. Even in just this century, IMO clearly inferior to 2009, 2015 and 2019, and highly-likely 2002, 2010 and possibly 2022. The Burgundians have become much better in managing viticulture and viniculture in the ever-increasing number of solar vintages, and recent vintages display that improvement over 2005.
Yes, no doubt the 2005 DRC's and Rousseau's etc. will be immortal, but I'm so sick of wine scribes judging a vintage on the 1% mountain peak. The majority of wines are chewy, tannic and lack the ethereal qualities seen in the best vintages. Indeed, I'd rather drink 2017's at the moment.
Leeuwin Estate makes a better chardonnay than Giaconda.
(but there is stuff coming out of the Adelaide hills that may overtake both in 20-30 years)
Viognier has no place in Australian shiraz wines, leave that blend to the Northern Rhone where it belongs
(if I want apricots, I nip off to Coles)
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Yes, Burgundy never tempted me...perhaps I am just an uneducated naive Luddite.
Don't drink chardonnay, but had a glass or two of both Shaw and Smith Balhannah and Petaluma Tiers, very good actually.
Can always pick Clonakilla, has that certain viscosity...apricots, Mum's tree had about 100kg of fruit this year, jam, stewed, fresh, just fabulous.
Nectarine and yellow peaches at the moment, delicious.
Cheers Craig
Don't drink chardonnay, but had a glass or two of both Shaw and Smith Balhannah and Petaluma Tiers, very good actually.
Can always pick Clonakilla, has that certain viscosity...apricots, Mum's tree had about 100kg of fruit this year, jam, stewed, fresh, just fabulous.
Nectarine and yellow peaches at the moment, delicious.
Cheers Craig
Tomorrow will be a good day
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
LEAS may well be better than Giaconda; they are on a par with cost but not availability. But not far behind them are a tonne of others, and on a QPR both are outdone. Dappled, Pierro and a host of others are biting at their heels.
I will repeat my previous post again because we were reminded of it when out last night......could restaurants PLEASE STOP serving red wine at SUMMER ROOM TEMPERATURE!!!!!!! I understand there is a cost to the restaurant involved, but at mid to higher level, it should be MANDATORY to deliver red wine around 18 degrees.
I feel better now.
I will repeat my previous post again because we were reminded of it when out last night......could restaurants PLEASE STOP serving red wine at SUMMER ROOM TEMPERATURE!!!!!!! I understand there is a cost to the restaurant involved, but at mid to higher level, it should be MANDATORY to deliver red wine around 18 degrees.
I feel better now.
Imugene, cure for cancer.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Yes, I reckon 'room temperature' is a phrase that should be consigned to wine's room 101. A reminder that *a little* knowledge can be more dangerous than none.Hacker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:55 pm
I will repeat my previous post again because we were reminded of it when out last night......could restaurants PLEASE STOP serving red wine at SUMMER ROOM TEMPERATURE!!!!!!! I understand there is a cost to the restaurant involved, but at mid to higher level, it should be MANDATORY to deliver red wine around 18 degrees.
I feel better now.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Unfortunately I can't search the thread for my prior submission (username too short), so I'll go again & risk duplication:
- dessert wines are badly under-appreciated these days, and I'd happily extend that to fortifieds. So much effort / expense to make them, and such intensity of flavours. Yet they're so often an afterthought.
- Grenache, a grape I would still taste if someone said it was interesting / different, or if friends opened a bottle (as they often do, being firm fans of Southern Rhone), but I can't imagine me buying another bottle where it's the lead or sole grape.
- White burgundy (Maconnais excepted). You tried to brush off the existence of prem.ox for many years, until the weight of evidence forced action by some (but not all of you). We the customers were expected to accept ~10% failure rate in your product, whilst you upped the prices even further. I'll chuck the majority of wine critics in with you, for they were dreadfully silent on the issue for way too long. Macon may not have been completely exempt, but we never hit a problem bottle, and I saw maybe 1 or 2 comments in total about others hitting prem.ox there. Plus the prices remained modest on the whole.
- Barossa Valley / McLaren Vale are not the best regions in Australia. That's always a palate preference thing, but for me they're a strongly negative influence on me purchasing a bottle. Given the way Aussie critics strongly favour the wine styles of these regions, I realised they weren't much use to me. Only where I have specific knowledge of it being a winery seeking something lighter / more diverse, will my interest perk up a little. FWIW I'd probably put Grampians at the top of the heap.
- We don't do enough to welcome people into the hobby. Too much mystique / 'in-words' that can come across as exclusionary or pretentious. A recent discussion on primary/secondary/tertiary flavours & aromas reminded me of this. We've sought a shorthand for describing the flavours, yet we enthusiasts can't even agree on definitions, and we're probably wrong about many 'primary' flavours anyway (as winemaking draws out many flavours that would be difficult to detect or not present in the grape itself). Minerality also high up on the list, but there's so much more. Tell others what you taste, rather than trying to show off your wine terminology. I'm also speaking to myself when I write this!
- There are plenty of interesting natural wines. Some are simply good wines, as good as or better than their peers. In these you'll probably see no reference to natural (or organic, or biodynamic) on the label, and certainly not emblazoned across it. There are also some very interesting (and challenging in a good way) natural wines, that have shaken my belief of what wines should taste like. My steps still very tentative, as there are also a good many reckless wines that even with changing the definition, can't be described as anything but 'faulty'.
- We revere the established star / critically acclaimed labels too much. Going back 30, 40, 50 years, the price difference between the very top of the market, and the very bottom, was much narrower. Arguably that meant there were bargains at the higher echelons, getting a special experience for a still affordable amount of money. These days too many wines are priced at a level they've become prestige items, bought either as an investment opportunity, or to be shown off to friends / colleagues etc. Chat forums like this can be a help, as people share new discoveries, but also a problem (especially in the US) as a hot new thing gathers a swathe of people simply buying because others say it's good. I've seen wines ascend to stratospheric pricing on the strength of such sheep-like behaviour. The remedy for me, is a) visiting wine regions and b) being braver in trying unknowns / lesser knowns as well as the established names. It can reveal some superb wines/wineries that fall completely under the critical radar.
- Tightly themed tastings can be educational e.g. St Estephe reds at 15 years old, but rarely as enjoyable as a free-for-all, to be roughly ordered as they arrive at the dining room. Plus I know that I struggle to confidently detect subtle nuances, especially after tasting a few glasses of wine. I almost certainly don't drink enough of any one wine region / style to care as much about subtleties of terroir impact as I sometimes feel expected to.
- dessert wines are badly under-appreciated these days, and I'd happily extend that to fortifieds. So much effort / expense to make them, and such intensity of flavours. Yet they're so often an afterthought.
- Grenache, a grape I would still taste if someone said it was interesting / different, or if friends opened a bottle (as they often do, being firm fans of Southern Rhone), but I can't imagine me buying another bottle where it's the lead or sole grape.
- White burgundy (Maconnais excepted). You tried to brush off the existence of prem.ox for many years, until the weight of evidence forced action by some (but not all of you). We the customers were expected to accept ~10% failure rate in your product, whilst you upped the prices even further. I'll chuck the majority of wine critics in with you, for they were dreadfully silent on the issue for way too long. Macon may not have been completely exempt, but we never hit a problem bottle, and I saw maybe 1 or 2 comments in total about others hitting prem.ox there. Plus the prices remained modest on the whole.
- Barossa Valley / McLaren Vale are not the best regions in Australia. That's always a palate preference thing, but for me they're a strongly negative influence on me purchasing a bottle. Given the way Aussie critics strongly favour the wine styles of these regions, I realised they weren't much use to me. Only where I have specific knowledge of it being a winery seeking something lighter / more diverse, will my interest perk up a little. FWIW I'd probably put Grampians at the top of the heap.
- We don't do enough to welcome people into the hobby. Too much mystique / 'in-words' that can come across as exclusionary or pretentious. A recent discussion on primary/secondary/tertiary flavours & aromas reminded me of this. We've sought a shorthand for describing the flavours, yet we enthusiasts can't even agree on definitions, and we're probably wrong about many 'primary' flavours anyway (as winemaking draws out many flavours that would be difficult to detect or not present in the grape itself). Minerality also high up on the list, but there's so much more. Tell others what you taste, rather than trying to show off your wine terminology. I'm also speaking to myself when I write this!
- There are plenty of interesting natural wines. Some are simply good wines, as good as or better than their peers. In these you'll probably see no reference to natural (or organic, or biodynamic) on the label, and certainly not emblazoned across it. There are also some very interesting (and challenging in a good way) natural wines, that have shaken my belief of what wines should taste like. My steps still very tentative, as there are also a good many reckless wines that even with changing the definition, can't be described as anything but 'faulty'.
- We revere the established star / critically acclaimed labels too much. Going back 30, 40, 50 years, the price difference between the very top of the market, and the very bottom, was much narrower. Arguably that meant there were bargains at the higher echelons, getting a special experience for a still affordable amount of money. These days too many wines are priced at a level they've become prestige items, bought either as an investment opportunity, or to be shown off to friends / colleagues etc. Chat forums like this can be a help, as people share new discoveries, but also a problem (especially in the US) as a hot new thing gathers a swathe of people simply buying because others say it's good. I've seen wines ascend to stratospheric pricing on the strength of such sheep-like behaviour. The remedy for me, is a) visiting wine regions and b) being braver in trying unknowns / lesser knowns as well as the established names. It can reveal some superb wines/wineries that fall completely under the critical radar.
- Tightly themed tastings can be educational e.g. St Estephe reds at 15 years old, but rarely as enjoyable as a free-for-all, to be roughly ordered as they arrive at the dining room. Plus I know that I struggle to confidently detect subtle nuances, especially after tasting a few glasses of wine. I almost certainly don't drink enough of any one wine region / style to care as much about subtleties of terroir impact as I sometimes feel expected to.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Felixp21 and phillisc, re Shiraz Viognier, grab a bottle of Collector's Reserve Shiraz and let me know what you think. 2% Viognier and very subtle.
Alex McKay, a personal friend, has got access to some terrific vineyards across the Canberra district and has had direct input into improving these vineyards for over 20 years.
Alex also keeps the Reserve back for years before releasing it, until he believes it's ready. He doesn't dump it on the market for cash as soon as he can. Top bloke.
Yalumba's Negociants are his distributor.
Cheers, Travis
Alex McKay, a personal friend, has got access to some terrific vineyards across the Canberra district and has had direct input into improving these vineyards for over 20 years.
Alex also keeps the Reserve back for years before releasing it, until he believes it's ready. He doesn't dump it on the market for cash as soon as he can. Top bloke.
Yalumba's Negociants are his distributor.
Cheers, Travis
-
Mike Hawkins
- Posts: 2719
- Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:39 am
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
I’ll add to my earlier thoughts…. McLaren Vale is a second tier region, with most of the heralded Shiraz over rated.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Is the 2% staled on the label, because I think it might contravene labels laws.TravisW wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:53 am Felixp21 and phillisc, re Shiraz Viognier, grab a bottle of Collector's Reserve Shiraz and let me know what you think. 2% Viognier and very subtle.
Alex McKay, a personal friend, has got access to some terrific vineyards across the Canberra district and has had direct input into improving these vineyards for over 20 years.
Alex also keeps the Reserve back for years before releasing it, until he believes it's ready. He doesn't dump it on the market for cash as soon as he can. Top bloke.
Yalumba's Negociants are his distributor.
Cheers, Travis
'If only two varieties are shown, the second cannot be less than 5%.' Labelling law.
I could be wrong!
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Nup. Just on the website.WineRick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:58 pmIs the 2% staled on the label, because I think it might contravene labels laws.TravisW wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:53 am Felixp21 and phillisc, re Shiraz Viognier, grab a bottle of Collector's Reserve Shiraz and let me know what you think. 2% Viognier and very subtle.
Alex McKay, a personal friend, has got access to some terrific vineyards across the Canberra district and has had direct input into improving these vineyards for over 20 years.
Alex also keeps the Reserve back for years before releasing it, until he believes it's ready. He doesn't dump it on the market for cash as soon as he can. Top bloke.
Yalumba's Negociants are his distributor.
Cheers, Travis
'If only two varieties are shown, the second cannot be less than 5%.' Labelling law.
I could be wrong!
https://collectorwines.com.au/collections/ou ... rve-shiraz
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
They are contravening labelling laws - will check on Monday - because I think websites are an extension of labelling requirements as a result of online purchasing. Likewise, you're not allowed to state 'Bordeaux-style' or 'Rhone-style' because you're encroaching on those GI's. Nor are you able to state on a label that the winemaker did a vintage in 'Napa' .TravisW wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:13 pmNup. Just on the website.WineRick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:58 pmIs the 2% staled on the label, because I think it might contravene labels laws.TravisW wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:53 am Felixp21 and phillisc, re Shiraz Viognier, grab a bottle of Collector's Reserve Shiraz and let me know what you think. 2% Viognier and very subtle.
Alex McKay, a personal friend, has got access to some terrific vineyards across the Canberra district and has had direct input into improving these vineyards for over 20 years.
Alex also keeps the Reserve back for years before releasing it, until he believes it's ready. He doesn't dump it on the market for cash as soon as he can. Top bloke.
Yalumba's Negociants are his distributor.
Cheers, Travis
'If only two varieties are shown, the second cannot be less than 5%.' Labelling law.
I could be wrong!
https://collectorwines.com.au/collections/ou ... rve-shiraz
About 40 years ago I proposed a motion at a VWIA (Vic wine body in the '80's) meeting that in a blend of only two varieties, the second variety needed to be at least 5%. Cab/Merlots were huge then, and you could get a 30 - 40% premium over plain Cabernet-labelled wines, even if it was only say 10 buckets of Merlot in a 5 tonne bin of Cabernet.
Philipe Guigal once whispered to me at a tasting - sitting next to me - why do we slavishly follow the Rhone! He went onto to say that Viogner were the only cuttings available many years ago when re-planting 'misses' in a Syrah block and the practice stuck and then went into vinous folk-lore.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
I don't think so... the labelling laws allow you to call a wine a single variety if that variety is more than 85% of the blend (850ml per litre), and also requires that if you do refer to the components of the blend you list the components in descending order of their contribution to the blend.
There is a general guide here:
https://www.wineaustralia.com/getmedia/fb571 ... les_v2.pdf
For geeks like me, you can also directly read the regulations:
(3) For subsection 40F(6) of the Act, if the description and presentation of wine originating in Australia refers to more than one variety:
(a) the description and presentation must list the varieties in descending order of their proportions in the wine; and
(b) each variety named in the description and presentation must be present in greater proportion in the composition of the wine than any variety that is not named; and
(c) in total, at least 850ml/L of the wine must be obtained from the named varieties
https://www.legislation.gov.au/F1996B00495/2 ... iginal/pdf
------------------------------------
Sam
Sam
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Will check on Monday - think that there is a section for two varieties - Sauv/Semillon, Cabernet /Merlot, etc.sjw_11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:32 pmI don't think so... the labelling laws allow you to call a wine a single variety if that variety is more than 85% of the blend (850ml per litre), and also requires that if you do refer to the components of the blend you list the components in descending order of their contribution to the blend.
There is a general guide here:
https://www.wineaustralia.com/getmedia/fb571 ... les_v2.pdf
For geeks like me, you can also directly read the regulations:
(3) For subsection 40F(6) of the Act, if the description and presentation of wine originating in Australia refers to more than one variety:
(a) the description and presentation must list the varieties in descending order of their proportions in the wine; and
(b) each variety named in the description and presentation must be present in greater proportion in the composition of the wine than any variety that is not named; and
(c) in total, at least 850ml/L of the wine must be obtained from the named varieties
https://www.legislation.gov.au/F1996B00495/2 ... iginal/pdf
Out of the game a few years.
Respect Collector wines - presented a 2019 'Tiger Tiger' Chardonnay recently at a Chardonay tasting - came out in the top three of 20 chards.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
phillisc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:52 am Yes, Burgundy never tempted me...perhaps I am just an uneducated naive Luddite.
Don't drink chardonnay, but had a glass or two of both Shaw and Smith Balhannah and Petaluma Tiers, very good actually.
Can always pick Clonakilla, has that certain viscosity...apricots, Mum's tree had about 100kg of fruit this year, jam, stewed, fresh, just fabulous.
Nectarine and yellow peaches at the moment, delicious.
Cheers Craig
Ah. Adelaide stone fruit. One of the many things I miss about Adelaide. When the fruit comes in I remember fellow workers bringing in boxes and boxes to share around. By each February I was overwhelmed and couldn't face another peach. We had apricots which we dried and a Million Dollar Peach tree. Fruit was as big as a cricket ball (well almost) and dripping with goodness. It's only when you travel overseas do you appreciate Australia and SA food produce.
Back to normal transmission.
Your worst game of golf is better than your best day at work
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Nice Winerick! Do you have a list of the 20 Chards and what the top 3 were?WineRick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:34 amWill check on Monday - think that there is a section for two varieties - Sauv/Semillon, Cabernet /Merlot, etc.sjw_11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:32 pmI don't think so... the labelling laws allow you to call a wine a single variety if that variety is more than 85% of the blend (850ml per litre), and also requires that if you do refer to the components of the blend you list the components in descending order of their contribution to the blend.
There is a general guide here:
https://www.wineaustralia.com/getmedia/fb571 ... les_v2.pdf
For geeks like me, you can also directly read the regulations:
(3) For subsection 40F(6) of the Act, if the description and presentation of wine originating in Australia refers to more than one variety:
(a) the description and presentation must list the varieties in descending order of their proportions in the wine; and
(b) each variety named in the description and presentation must be present in greater proportion in the composition of the wine than any variety that is not named; and
(c) in total, at least 850ml/L of the wine must be obtained from the named varieties
https://www.legislation.gov.au/F1996B00495/2 ... iginal/pdf
Out of the game a few years.
Respect Collector wines - presented a 2019 'Tiger Tiger' Chardonnay recently at a Chardonay tasting - came out in the top three of 20 chards.
Many thanks, Travis
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Will report back. Didn't' take notes, and Ian was having a 'Dry January"!TravisW wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:11 pmNice Winerick! Do you have a list of the 20 Chards and what the top 3 were?WineRick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:34 amWill check on Monday - think that there is a section for two varieties - Sauv/Semillon, Cabernet /Merlot, etc.sjw_11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:32 pm
I don't think so... the labelling laws allow you to call a wine a single variety if that variety is more than 85% of the blend (850ml per litre), and also requires that if you do refer to the components of the blend you list the components in descending order of their contribution to the blend.
There is a general guide here:
https://www.wineaustralia.com/getmedia/fb571 ... les_v2.pdf
For geeks like me, you can also directly read the regulations:
(3) For subsection 40F(6) of the Act, if the description and presentation of wine originating in Australia refers to more than one variety:
(a) the description and presentation must list the varieties in descending order of their proportions in the wine; and
(b) each variety named in the description and presentation must be present in greater proportion in the composition of the wine than any variety that is not named; and
(c) in total, at least 850ml/L of the wine must be obtained from the named varieties
https://www.legislation.gov.au/F1996B00495/2 ... iginal/pdf
Out of the game a few years.
Respect Collector wines - presented a 2019 'Tiger Tiger' Chardonnay recently at a Chardonay tasting - came out in the top three of 20 chards.
Many thanks, Travis
I brought 2021 Collector 'Tiger Tiger", 2020 Villa Maria 'McDiarmid' (SV, Gisborne NZ) and a sample of 2023 Yalumba 'Winesmiths ' 2L cask chard, to keep the tasting honest! I know there was a Sidewood and a stunning Kistler (Cali) with about 8 - 10 years - stunning wine #1 for me. Will supply better list when winemaster gets back.
2020 Sidewood 'Mappinga' Adel Hills
2022 X O Adel Hills
2020 Sumerled Res AH
2020 Singlefile Fam. Res. Denmark WA
2019 Yarrra Yering
2023 Aromatiques Clare V (unwooded)
2014 Kistler 'McCrea Vineyard', Sonoma Cali
2006 Romney Park Res., AH
2021 Ashton Hills 'Picadilly Vineyard' AH
2008 Picardy Pemberton WA
Last edited by WineRick on Mon Jan 29, 2024 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
JamieAdelaide
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:59 pm
- Location: Adelaide
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
The degree of ladybug taint in Ponsot is covered up by the ridiculous price these wines command. As nobody drinking enough of them. Two out of three 09’s buggered on the weekend
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Jamie, I have never seen or heard of ladybug taint in the 2009 vintage in Burgundy. Whilst very prevalent in 2004 (a vintage I avoid/avoided like the plague) I'm not sure anyone has recorded ladybug taint in 2009. It is almost always confined to cooler vintages, the opposite to 2009.
Ponsot does, however, use a decent whack of oak in the majority of his wines, and in solar vintages this can result in a green streak as it ages (I find this incredibly common in 05 Bordeaux and Burgundy). I am not a huge fan of Ponsot, a poster child for label drinkers, but I haven't come across ladybug taint in his wines, even in 2004 or 2011.
Ponsot does, however, use a decent whack of oak in the majority of his wines, and in solar vintages this can result in a green streak as it ages (I find this incredibly common in 05 Bordeaux and Burgundy). I am not a huge fan of Ponsot, a poster child for label drinkers, but I haven't come across ladybug taint in his wines, even in 2004 or 2011.
-
JamieAdelaide
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:59 pm
- Location: Adelaide
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
It was a big Burgundy lunch in HKG and amongst collectors. Pyrazine was the consensus and near full bottles of 09 CDLR were discarded.
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
sounds terrible, but to be honest, not unexpected with Ponsot.
many causes of pyrazine, obviously ladybug taint being one. Many other causes, 09 being a very hot vintage, maybe he didn't de-leaf in fear of burning the fruit. Over-shaded vines are highly prone to pyrazine production. Might have been his mistake, but there are so many causes for this, oak failure being another common one (and Laurent loves his oak!!) . Viticulture is more an art than science, and sometimes they get iit wrong (just have a look at any Fourrier wine from 2008
)
I'm surprise Burgundy collectors pointed at ladybugs as the cause, maybe it is, but I haven't heard of it that vintage.
Either way, its still super annoying!!!
many causes of pyrazine, obviously ladybug taint being one. Many other causes, 09 being a very hot vintage, maybe he didn't de-leaf in fear of burning the fruit. Over-shaded vines are highly prone to pyrazine production. Might have been his mistake, but there are so many causes for this, oak failure being another common one (and Laurent loves his oak!!) . Viticulture is more an art than science, and sometimes they get iit wrong (just have a look at any Fourrier wine from 2008
)I'm surprise Burgundy collectors pointed at ladybugs as the cause, maybe it is, but I haven't heard of it that vintage.
Either way, its still super annoying!!!
-
JamieAdelaide
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:59 pm
- Location: Adelaide
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Pyrazine taint was the consensus sorry. To me it was classic ladybug.
I think I’m too cheap a guy to have accepted Burgundy and all its faults and become a passionate collector. Been along for the ride but glad I didn’t catch the Bug. Calling room service to open my $50 Aussie Barolo.
I think I’m too cheap a guy to have accepted Burgundy and all its faults and become a passionate collector. Been along for the ride but glad I didn’t catch the Bug. Calling room service to open my $50 Aussie Barolo.
-
Gavin Trott
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:01 pm
- Location: Adelaide
- Contact:
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
I'll play the game, which Aussie Barolo?JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:45 pm Pyrazine taint was the consensus sorry. To me it was classic ladybug.
I think I’m too cheap a guy to have accepted Burgundy and all its faults and become a passionate collector. Been along for the ride but glad I didn’t catch the Bug. Calling room service to open my $50 Aussie Barolo.
regards
Gavin Trott
Gavin Trott
-
JamieAdelaide
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:59 pm
- Location: Adelaide
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Yes …. My next ADL event Aussie Barolo 
-
cuttlefish
- Posts: 1008
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:46 pm
- Location: Sunbury
Re: What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
In times gone by, I would have suggested Taltarni as an alternative