The Auswine Forum

After realising I had access to some valuable cellar space, I've decided to start collecting wine (i'm trying to fill the void for many years that a childhood filled with basketball and football cards left) and have been reading through prior posts and articles for cellaring advice. The advice is strongly directed at ensuring good variety as future tastes evolve etc...

So, in saying all that, I suppose the one beast I'd like to learn more about is Pinot. Questions such as the following pop up:
- Do any particular regions provide greater cellar worthy Pinot's?
- Are there Pinot's in the $25-50 range worth cellaring?
- Any advice on which Pinot's should I look at laying down?

A newby at having a really keen interest so apologies in advance for any unintentional ignorance!

I have the complete 92/93 upper deck set incl all inserts and a Gheorge Muresan rookie card.

Ahh, Pinot. How long is a piece of string?
Others will be more qualified in answering this question, but I suppose to put it simply, analyze the vintages and look to buy from the excellent vintages from the respective pinot regions.
Australian pinot, you'd be looking at Yarra/Mornington/Macedon/Gippsland/Tamar Valley. NZ - Central Otago/Martinborough. France - Burgundy.

As your tastes evolve, you'll be reaching more and more for Burgundies which can become an expensive little habit. Hopefully you've got a very relaxed/forginving wife/partner, or are single!

Other than Burgundy of course, I'd say Mornington and Martinborough tend to age well, as do some good Central Otago and Waipara examples.

Not had great experience with all the Aussie regions, being a bit more kiwi Pinot focused (and Burgundy whenever I get the chance). But I would go for quality over quantity. Wonderful Pinot under $50 includes a touch of oxymoron. But it does exist, I'm told.

For Kiwi cellaring hits, I'd go Ata Rangi, Pegasus Bay and Felton Road.

2012 pinots from both Yarra Valley and Mornington Peninsula appear to be pretty good, so they could be a good starting point. There'd for sure be some big ass Tasmanian pinots floating around that will age well.

Keep an eye on the critics choices, Gourmet Traveller Wine Mag will have plenty of suggestions plus drinking windows for many.

Track record can be a good indicator (not the be all and end all, but a good indicator, nonetheless), so look at what you may have tried in the past that had some age on it that you liked, or that you see coming up again and again in the media as being cellarworthy.

Most decent quality pinots made here you'd expect to last 5-8 years, but if you want to go way beyond that, then obviously it will take some research and no doubt a little luck to pick the right wines...

It's probably a similar story picking Burgundy, but you'd probably be paying a fair bit more; certainly if you're shopping for your Burgundy in Australia.

Do you know how to assess through taste if a wine is likely to age? If not then as has been suggested above, look at what the critics say.

However, Pinot is a funny beast. I've had pinots that undergo a wonderful transformation in a year, go dumb for a couple of years then have a couple of years of great drinking then fade quickly. By Farr 2010 was a great wine on release, right now has gone to sleep so I'll have another crack in a couple of years. Timo Mayer's pinots always benefit from 2-3 years IMHO.

The other thing thats worth noting is, do you like the taste of aged pinot? If so, how old?

Buy a 12 bottle lot of the $20 Hoddles Creek pinot noir. Cellar them. Have one a year, keeping a note on what it was like when you had it. Not expensive, a safe bet, and a good way to see if you like how some Oz pinot can age.

pc79 wrote:I have the complete 92/93 upper deck set incl all inserts and a Gheorge Muresan rookie card.

Who said a Gheorghe Muresan card couldn't be worth anything - got a Topps one of Shaq making a mess of him!

rossmckay wrote:Do you know how to assess through taste if a wine is likely to age? If not then as has been suggested above, look at what the critics say.

However, Pinot is a funny beast. I've had pinots that undergo a wonderful transformation in a year, go dumb for a couple of years then have a couple of years of great drinking then fade quickly. By Farr 2010 was a great wine on release, right now has gone to sleep so I'll have another crack in a couple of years. Timo Mayer's pinots always benefit from 2-3 years IMHO.

The other thing thats worth noting is, do you like the taste of aged pinot? If so, how old?

Well truth be told, I haven't really tried much past 3-4 years old pinot... Mightn't be the worst idea to sample before outlaying then? Any suggestions?

Thanks heaps for the pointers all! Really cool vibe on this forum.

I should have written some tasting notes on what I had a few weeks ago but I guess it's better late than never. About a month ago my friends and I had a Pinot tasting - everything was a pinot including the the sparkling and the dessert wine. Opinions were divided, there was a split decision, but there were two favourites, the '97 Kalin Pinot Noir, Sonoma and the '98 Best's Pinot Noir - both were good and neither were in any danger of fading anytime soon.

Moral of the story: don't be afraid to age your Australian Pinots.

Cheers............................Mahmoud.

I fully support the Hoddles Creek suggestion. Great value, and ages well...

In terms of a few other ideas:

Hurley Estate 2010 (my experience shows wines from Hurley age amazingly well, and the 2010 is a good bet).
Mayer Bloody Hill 2013 (this is the cheapest end of the range, but would still benefit from a few years).
Oakridge Local Vineyard Series 2012 (4 different wines, all very good and I'd say pretty reasonable value).
Curly Flat 2010 (screaming out for 5 years in the cellar!).

Hope that helps,

Simon

Try Coldstream Hills Pinot's. Specially their reserve Pinot will easily age 10+ years on good vintages like 2012.

simon1980 wrote:
Curly Flat 2010 (screaming out for 5 years in the cellar!).
Simon

If anyone is in the Macedon Ranges region in Victoria, I strong suggest visiting Curly Flat. As it is out of the way, they get less passing traffic. Aim for 3pm and if you are lucky you will get the owner working the cellar door. We had a wonderful afternoon there last Christmas with him. Once he realised we were passionate about the topic, he sat down with us in the main room and spent hours discussing his wines including bringing up old bottles from his cellar for us to try and taste. He has strong opinions about pinot but is a wonderful host.

pstarr wrote:Buy a 12 bottle lot of the $20 Hoddles Creek pinot noir. Cellar them. Have one a year, keeping a note on what it was like when you had it. Not expensive, a safe bet, and a good way to see if you like how some Oz pinot can age.

Paukl,

Up until last night I hadn't bothered buying any of these, but this stood out in a blind tasting of 18 Pinots and I bought some this morning

As an afterthought at the cellar door, I bought a bottle of Wombat Forest Wines (Macedon region) cleanskin pinot 2006. Having not been a pinotphile, perhaps even disdaining the variety, I was very impressed, thoroughly enjoyed the bottle I shared with my b-I-l, think it would cellar for at least another 3-5+ years. So, I have a mixed case of pinot, Aus. and NZ in transit as well as a 6pk of St Hubert's (Yarra Valley) 2012 because the couple of reviews I saw (JH and GW) made it seem suited to my palate.

I'd agree with a number of others here who have suggested taking a look at Curly Flat, hoddles creek and Oakridge. I've drank a few of these with anywhere between 5-10 years of bottle age and have been consistently impressed. Vintage is key and you really need to focus on the better vintages if you want to keep anything beyond 5 years in my opinion.

Looking towards NZ then Escarpment & Ata Rangi can take some bottle age and as for burgundy then your options are limitless so long as your pockets are deep. That being said i've had a few generic village wines and 1ers from less popular regions which have have been pretty good with some age.

simon1980 wrote:
Hurley Estate 2010 (my experience shows wines from Hurley age amazingly well, and the 2010 is a good bet).

Simon

The 04 Garamond Simon brought to an offline was fantastic! I can still remember the effortless power and length it had, it could easily have gone a few more years in the cellar.
I think the 2012s are out now but I read somewhere that there will only be the 3 single vineyard pinots (no estate) as they believed the quality was high enough

rossmckay wrote:The other thing thats worth noting is, do you like the taste of aged pinot? If so, how old?

+1 with what Ross asks. It's a good call by the OP that he's cellaring with an aim to hedge against an evolving palate, but have you tried any aged Pinots? Either way, your mates will love you.

Cheers, Travis.

Not really Travis... four years would be as aged as I've had with Pinot. Like you said, either way, I will have booked a seat at mate's dinners and be a hit!

Some great collective advice and names mentioned above.

pstarr wrote:Buy a 12 bottle lot of the $20 Hoddles Creek pinot noir. Cellar them. Have one a year, keeping a note on what it was like when you had it. Not expensive, a safe bet, and a good way to see if you like how some Oz pinot can age.

I fear this will be a slow solution, at least 5 to 7 years before the Hoddles reveals itself. Surely you don't want to wait too long. Scour the auctions for pinots with 5-7+ years age and join in some of the offlines that regularly occur in the cities around the traps. Usually some aged pinot pops up there, and you will be most welcome! As for ignorance, meet the master!