The Auswine Forum

Well of course we all care.

The world will end if we don't get exactly the right dish to compliment the prized treasure we've been salivating over for years in the cellar and have dutifully prepared and decanted according to a proscribed ritual.

What I'm talking about is the recommended food matches that come with tasting notes, on websites etc that I'm sure have got far more specific over the years.

"Enjoy this wine with chargrilled steak with homemade chips and garlic aioli". Really??? What if I've only got tomato sauce to go on my Birds Eye frozen chips from Safeways?

So how do you all feel about those sort of food recommendations generally provided by producers/retailers/e-tailers - Do they resonate with you and do you follow instructions? Do they amuse you? Do they just get in the way?

I'm curious.....

sparky wrote:Well of course we all care.

The world will end if we don't get exactly the right dish to compliment the prized treasure we've been salivating over for years in the cellar and have dutifully prepared and decanted according to a proscribed ritual.

What I'm talking about is the recommended food matches that come with tasting notes, on websites etc that I'm sure have got far more specific over the years.

"Enjoy this wine with chargrilled steak with homemade chips and garlic aioli". Really??? What if I've only got tomato sauce to go on my Birds Eye frozen chips from Safeways?

So how do you all feel about those sort of food recommendations generally provided by producers/retailers/e-tailers - Do they resonate with you and do you follow instructions? Do they amuse you? Do they just get in the way?

I'm curious.....

love this line.
Food matching? For me, I try to keep it basic, but without fear of breaking the rules.
recommendations? Sometimes they are laughable but it often depends on who is making the recommendation.
interesting comment from Henry's world of booze below...

"If I were to recommend listening to the aforementioned Bob Marley whilst driving a red convertible, on a warm summer’s evening on the road to St Ives, would you be daft enough to think that was the ONLY way to listen to Bob Marley?
Most specific pairings are surely only examples of what is possible and some are tongue-in-cheek (and why not!)
Tongue in cheek goes particularly well with cold turkey!"

Food going with wine? Why waste a good bottle of wine with my wife's cooking! (Only joking dear - it's a quiet Friday night)

I for one get a bit of a chuckle with the specificity of "absolute must" food pairing that seems all too common these days. It's as if we are trying to be too cute or smart or smug or worse. What if I haven't got Dutch Cream potatoes for mash with the steak and only have Kipfler? (Mind you, everyone knows that Dutch Creams make the best mash!' )

I also find some equivalent use of obscure descriptors in tasting notes in much the same vein. Ok, that's what you sense, but is there any wine in there?

A great post, Sparky. As a musician myself, I'd be prepared to complicate the equation even further. After all, it's not just the wine and food match, but the lighting, music (or absence of) and the scenery:

"This shiraz viognier, with its plum, vaniilan oak and apricot lift, goes perfectly with an antipasto platter, on a riverbank, approaching sunset, with an historic building in silhouette, and with Joni Mitchell's 'Big Yellow Taxi' on the iPod"

Cheers

Allan

I have only one rule - No reds with soft creamy cheese. Other than that almost anything goes.

Waiters Friend wrote:A great post, Sparky. As a musician myself, I'd be prepared to complicate the equation even further. After all, it's not just the wine and food match, but the lighting, music (or absence of) and the scenery:

"This shiraz viognier, with its plum, vaniilan oak and apricot lift, goes perfectly with an antipasto platter, on a riverbank, approaching sunset, with an historic building in silhouette, and with Joni Mitchell's 'Big Yellow Taxi' on the iPod"

Cheers

Allan

Ever listened to Joni's live "Shadows and Light" double album? I think it's my most-listened-to-ever album. "Furry Sings the Blues" is probably my favourite track but the whole album is memorable with a great line-up of jazz-blues musos; Pat Metheny on guitar, Jaco Pastorius on bass, Don Alias on drums, Michael Brecker on sax, The Persuasions with back-up vocals and Joni playing electric guitar, a number of the tracks are songs from her Hejira album

I find the specificity of the food matches hilarious. I sometimes save particularly ridiculous ones to show friends in the wine business.

I might spend 4+ hours drinking a wine and maybe 20 minutes eating my main meal at home or a restaurant. The dinner I have tonight demands Chardonnay (creamy chicken dish with steamed greens), but it is COLD tonight so what am I drinking? 2006 Kabminye Schleibs Block. And it was nice with dinner, but better now! Drink what you feel like drinking and enjoy. If it isn't great with the fish, not the end of the world!

Matching wine with your food is like basing what you will listen to on the radio for the whole evening based on what you want to listen to while soaking in the tub.

Cheers

Michael

sparky wrote: What if I've only got tomato sauce to go on my Birds Eye frozen chips from Safeways?

If it's absolutely vital to match wine with chips and ketchup (shudder) then run out and pick up a bottle of Wally's Hut or Little Penguin Shiraz. And, if it's summer drop in an ice cube.

Seriously though, I think the recommendations are usually an indicator of the type of food that the wine will go with, the flavours, and textures, not what someone may have on the table that moment.

Cheers.................Mahmoud

Michael McNally wrote:I might spend 4+ hours drinking a wine and maybe 20 minutes eating my main meal at home or a restaurant. The dinner I have tonight demands Chardonnay (creamy chicken dish with steamed greens), but it is COLD tonight so what am I drinking? 2006 Kabminye Schleibs Block. And it was nice with dinner, but better now! Drink what you feel like drinking and enjoy. If it isn't great with the fish, not the end of the world!

Matching wine with your food is like basing what you will listen to on the radio for the whole evening based on what you want to listen to while soaking in the tub.

Cheers

Michael

+1 Totally agree Michael.

I'm pretty relax about matching and even have reds with fish, mainly cabernets and pinots. Last night flying home from Sydney up the pointy end it was atlantic salmon or rabbit food. The choice of wines was a sav blanc or a Shadowfax Shiraz. I don't do sav blanc and had no problem with shiraz with the salmon. The salmon was so overcooked I should have just had the shiraz with cheese but after some serious wining in Sydney the liver needed a break.

Carl

Well I had a big Barossa Grenache (09 The Colonial Estate Alexander Laing) with Roast Chicken tonight and it was delightful. Probably not a recommended match but Janine and I enjoyed both the dinner and the wine immensely.

Cheers
Ian

Michael McNally wrote:I might spend 4+ hours drinking a wine and maybe 20 minutes eating my main meal at home or a restaurant. The dinner I have tonight demands Chardonnay (creamy chicken dish with steamed greens), but it is COLD tonight so what am I drinking? 2006 Kabminye Schleibs Block. And it was nice with dinner, but better now! Drink what you feel like drinking and enjoy. If it isn't great with the fish, not the end of the world!

Matching wine with your food is like basing what you will listen to on the radio for the whole evening based on what you want to listen to while soaking in the tub.

Cheers

Michael

How I wish I still had some of that Schleibs Block. All gone now and as a matter of fact had a Kabminye Ken & Neville tonight. And Ricks wines are so good a day or two later as I will know when I finish this bottle.

Graham

What came first, the pretentious wine/food matching at that level of detailed programmatic specificity , or the food descriptions that emanate from food industry that delve to the depths of Alaskan pepper corns freshly cracked over the pan-seared Kalahari flat-head caught 10 minutes prior.

What about tasting notes. I saw this one recently:

This sun loving grape turns out lush, balanced wines with fine tannins, fresh crimson acidity and aromatic tones of Morello cherry and ripe blood plums. Blood orange peel and the slight pucker of quince; straps of black licorice; an organic cherry orchard warmed by the December sun. A fine line of exotic spices , tobacco and timber: cassia bark and mace – where the depth of spice meets the lilt of floral. Sweetly aromatic cured tobacco leaves and shavings of rare Sassafrass and Tasmanian Southern Beech. Showing stunning line and length it's supremely complex with a silken texture.

What would you match with that?

GrahamB wrote:What about tasting notes. I saw this one recently:

This sun loving grape turns out lush, balanced wines with fine tannins, fresh crimson acidity and aromatic tones of Morello cherry and ripe blood plums. Blood orange peel and the slight pucker of quince; straps of black licorice; an organic cherry orchard warmed by the December sun. A fine line of exotic spices , tobacco and timber: cassia bark and mace – where the depth of spice meets the lilt of floral. Sweetly aromatic cured tobacco leaves and shavings of rare Sassafrass and Tasmanian Southern Beech. Showing stunning line and length it's supremely complex with a silken texture.

What would you match with that?

Or how about this tasting note (apologies Gavin for borrowing it from your recent wine offer but its a doozy!):

"But what fascinates me here is the physique given to this lavish cradle of luxury. Ferrugninous tannin flexes its muscle throughout the whole experience, roping each distinct note of richness back into a tightly bundled whole before it can fully escape. An act of recuperation that is nothing short of astounding given the force needing to be harnessed. As this plays out it brings further animation to the wine, creating an extant liquid that enthralls in its youth while promising all sorts of possibilities for the future."

GrahamB wrote:What about tasting notes. I saw this one recently:

This sun loving grape turns out lush, balanced wines with fine tannins, fresh crimson acidity and aromatic tones of Morello cherry and ripe blood plums. Blood orange peel and the slight pucker of quince; straps of black licorice; an organic cherry orchard warmed by the December sun. A fine line of exotic spices , tobacco and timber: cassia bark and mace – where the depth of spice meets the lilt of floral. Sweetly aromatic cured tobacco leaves and shavings of rare Sassafrass and Tasmanian Southern Beech. Showing stunning line and length it's supremely complex with a silken texture.

What would you match with that?

hence my earlier post

did the taster/reviewer actually find any wine in that wine????

sjw_11 wrote:
Or how about this tasting note (apologies Gavin for borrowing it from your recent wine offer but its a doozy!):

"But what fascinates me here is the physique given to this lavish cradle of luxury. Ferrugninous tannin flexes its muscle throughout the whole experience, roping each distinct note of richness back into a tightly bundled whole before it can fully escape. An act of recuperation that is nothing short of astounding given the force needing to be harnessed. As this plays out it brings further animation to the wine, creating an extant liquid that enthralls in its youth while promising all sorts of possibilities for the future."

well, no credibility at all in my books, original note maker can't even spell ferruginous

I must admit, I don't mind the overly fanciful & esoteric tasting notes - at least it shows the winemaker thought about it and cares about it, even if they get a little carried away with their own literary creativity at times.

Sure beats the 'describes like every other Shiraz on the shelf' pro-forma tasting notes that are often churned out.

It's the detailed programmatic specificity (thank you reschsmooth, that has now entered my vocabulary, although possibly only when I'm sober:-)) of the food matching that somehow annoys me, particularly when it's sub $12 gulper. It's a mid week pacifier for God's sake. It will go with whatever's left over in the fridge...

This 2L cask Classic White will go impeccably with oysters, caviar and lobster...

To me the very specific food matches are there just as fillers...I mean, let's face it, it is just like a majority of tasting notes....Random, finely detailed descriptors that are more about someones BS writing talent than anything about the wine itself.

Not to mention the best Somms I've seen will match the wine w/ the texture/characteristics of the dish as well..not just the generic protein...they'll take into account the acidity of the food or sauce, sugar, etc, etc...So whatever food match are in these tasting notes means nothing...To me it is like:

Wine Match with Generic Protein + add extra BS descriptor about the protein.

To fill space...

mjs wrote:

sjw_11 wrote:
Or how about this tasting note (apologies Gavin for borrowing it from your recent wine offer but its a doozy!):

"But what fascinates me here is the physique given to this lavish cradle of luxury. Ferrugninous tannin flexes its muscle throughout the whole experience, roping each distinct note of richness back into a tightly bundled whole before it can fully escape. An act of recuperation that is nothing short of astounding given the force needing to be harnessed. As this plays out it brings further animation to the wine, creating an extant liquid that enthralls in its youth while promising all sorts of possibilities for the future."

well, no credibility at all in my books, original note maker can't even spell ferruginous

I hope that was a Pinot...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferruginous_Duck

Shiraz as it turns out, so no connection between ferruginous wines and ferruginous duck, although Moira I like the pick-up on the duck!!

http://winewilleatitself.com/2013/08/07/2012-torzi-matthews-frost-dodger-shiraz

For what it's worth

I only drink wine with food (by and large) and, consequently, care a lot about how harmoniously they compliment one another.

I do not take any notice of the food matching recommendations. Simialrly I take no notice of the descriptions of the actual wine. I probably take less notice of the descriptions of the wine that the food matches (if you can have degrees of not taking notice......).

kaos wrote:I do not take any notice of the food matching recommendations. Simialrly I take no notice of the descriptions of the actual wine. I probably take less notice of the descriptions of the wine that the food matches (if you can have degrees of not taking notice......).

Sounds like you have a Degree in Not Taking Notice! This is meant as a play on your words, not a personal attack on your comment

Cheers

Michael

Michael McNally wrote:

kaos wrote:(if you can have degrees of not taking notice......).

Sounds like you have a Degree in Not Taking Notice! This is meant as a play on your words, not a personal attack on your comment

Perhaps it is similar to my Honours in Obliviousness!

Just thinking a little more about this, I think the reason I take less no notice of food match recommendations is that it indicates that someone commercially involved in the production of the wine believes there is some chance it may be of use consumed with food. So it goes some minute way to describing the utility of the contents. Let's face it, some wine is actually sump oil and cannot be drunk with any food other than, say, licorice bullets.....

Despite the billions of words wasted on the subject, food and wine matching is neither art nor science. It's simply an exercise in common sense and the application of the bleeding obvious, like no vintage port with seafood or sauvignon blanc with cassoulet. Actually make that no sauvignon blanc with anything. The classic matches (oysters with chablis/champagane, apricot/almond dishes with sauternes etc) are just that because they've been proven to be so over long periods of time. It's true that you should know the rules before you start breaking them but unless you play around a bit, you'll miss some great combinations that, at first glance, seem just wrong. Like Australian shiraz with full on Thai dishes - the chilli seems to bring up the fruit sweetness and makes the most overwooded reds attractive. I don't like whites (just my palate preference - I'm happy to leave them to those who do) so I look to lighter bodied cool climate reds when the food is lighter and more delicate. When cooking for friends and family, my starting position is that it's the wine that drives the choice of dish. So even if I occasionally stuff up a course, the wine in the glass more than compensates for any disappointment.

Bollinger, natural oysters and Led Zep

Coonawarra Cab, rib eye and the Rolling Stones

nothing else matters

but apart from rice custard have been known to eat and drink anything

Cheers
Craig.