The Auswine Forum

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I am already on record on this forum as satirising a number of the aspects of this trend with "wine [being] hi-jacked by the Surry Hills hipster brigade pushing their barrows full of bio-organic-dynamic-unfiltered-bio-picked under a full moon wine who will only drink something with no air miles on it and where they know the wine makers star sign & favourite colour" as I said in September last year... albeit with tongue firmly in cheek.

I think there are two sides to the issue of "natural" v "industrial". On the one hand more wine makers experimenting with a more "localised" or natural approach, increasingly producing more varied and intriguing wines, e.g. use of indigenous grapes, heirloom varieties, natural yeasts/ferments, etc is good as creating new and interesting drinks.

These can then be a nice contrast & alternative to modern, more “industrial” wine making which generally produces a "clean" reliable product and reduces spoilage/off wines which were I think its safe to say much more prevalent "back in the day"

I also think Australian wine makers should not give in to the "cultural cringe" of industrial is bad/natural is best and lose sight of the significant contribution their Aussie forebears made to improvements globally in the scientific production of wine to achieve an improved product (e.g. use of cooling systems, hygiene improvements, & of course Ray Beckwiths’ singular contribution in the use of pH levels to stabilise wine and prevent spoilage).

I do still think the "natural" wine movement as it stands right now is fundamentally about marketing - hundreds of smaller wine makers have already done a lot of these things for years without a binding slogan... Similar to the "slow food" movement and other dining trends... It reflects a consumer desire for "local", natural, boutique and artisan. Maslow’s hierarchy of needs correctly predicts this as the proverbial “first world problem”, and it is a trend that remains so hot right now.

How long this lasts as a catch cry to shift a product I don’t know, but I do know when the last hipster beard has been shaved off with an artisan steel razor and the Indie popsters have moved to "golden oldie" status, there will still be hundreds of small wine makers making their product in fundamentally the same way it has been for 10,000 years.

As a side note, I had a look at the site for Rootstock the other day and it does look like it could be a good day's wine and food tasting, plus Bluejuice is playing... I personally plan to check it out!

Winemakers in the "natural wine" movement can't even agree on the definition. Nevertheless, it has meaning.

Most small-scale (at least) winemakers making "natural wines" seem to be in it for the philosophy/product/authenticity, not for the marketing (although obviously at the sales end it's naturally a different story).

I hope this clears up the various differences

The People's Front of Judea = Carbon Neutral
The Judean People's Front = Low Intervention
The Judean Popular People's Front = Organic
The Campaign for a Free Galilee = Biodynamic
The Popular Front of Judea = Natural Winemaking
Romans = Industrial

Interesting to note that DRC is biodynamic as are Henschke's (at least some) and many other top aussie producers (Cullen) - maybe the phases of the moon should not be ridiculed?

Luke W wrote:Interesting to note that DRC is biodynamic as are Henschke's (at least some) and many other top aussie producers (Cullen) - maybe the phases of the moon should not be ridiculed?

Producers that are interested in looking after the health of their vineyards can sometimes make great wines - must be the influence of the moon.

[quote="marsalla"]
The Popular Front of Judea = Natural Winemaking
/quote]
Splitters.

Has anybody tried Torbreck's "Natural Wine Project Grenache"? I spied some in a local wine shop the other day and was thinking about buying a bottle to try. Apparantly it's from an organic vineyard and no additives whatsoever. Could be interesting

My understanding is that biodynamicism (?) is, fundamentally, pseudoscience. While I'm not especially bothered about other kinds of organic or natural winemaking, and might in fact very, very marginally favour them, I would put a small black mark against biodynamic wines simply because of my natural opposition to loads of old bollocks in all their forms. That said, I'll still have a Cullen - despite, rather than because of, however.

Yeah...to me I don't care either way..it really makes no difference...

I think the only wine I ever cared about it being "natural" was a Lapierre Morgon...with the natural being slightly better IMO but also all that much more picky because of the lack of sulfer. And even then, it was only a minor preference..for all other wine I don't care if it is biodynamic or natural or whatever..if it makes the wine taste good then all the better but it plays no part in my decision making..at least not at this point in time...

Agreed. The non-sulfite bottles are better if you get one in perfect condition. It's been the most obvious illustration of the difference between wines with and without sulfites.

Polymer wrote:Yeah...to me I don't care either way..it really makes no difference...

I think the only wine I ever cared about it being "natural" was a Lapierre Morgon...with the natural being slightly better IMO but also all that much more picky because of the lack of sulfer. And even then, it was only a minor preference..for all other wine I don't care if it is biodynamic or natural or whatever..if it makes the wine taste good then all the better but it plays no part in my decision making..at least not at this point in time...

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ticklenow1 wrote:Has anybody tried Torbreck's "Natural Wine Project Grenache"? I spied some in a local wine shop the other day and was thinking about buying a bottle to try. Apparantly it's from an organic vineyard and no additives whatsoever. Could be interesting

I tried it perhaps 12-18mths ago, might have been the 2010 or 2011 vintage... didn't care much for it ... a bit too funky without the funkiness really adding much. Really just a bit simple for the price point.

sjw_11 wrote:

ticklenow1 wrote:Has anybody tried Torbreck's "Natural Wine Project Grenache"? I spied some in a local wine shop the other day and was thinking about buying a bottle to try. Apparantly it's from an organic vineyard and no additives whatsoever. Could be interesting

I tried it perhaps 12-18mths ago, might have been the 2010 or 2011 vintage... didn't care much for it ... a bit too funky without the funkiness really adding much. Really just a bit simple for the price point.

Cheers for that!

Ian

sjw_11 wrote:

ticklenow1 wrote:Has anybody tried Torbreck's "Natural Wine Project Grenache"? I spied some in a local wine shop the other day and was thinking about buying a bottle to try. Apparantly it's from an organic vineyard and no additives whatsoever. Could be interesting

I tried it perhaps 12-18mths ago, might have been the 2010 or 2011 vintage... didn't care much for it ... a bit too funky without the funkiness really adding much. Really just a bit simple for the price point.

I tried the 2010 vintage just under two years ago. I didn't find it particularly funky (though I can enjoy a lot more funk than the average Aussie palate, so no doubt many people would find it funky). I found the nose of (relative) interest, but overall it was uninspiring, and could have been somewhat better balanced.

dingozegan wrote:

sjw_11 wrote:

ticklenow1 wrote:Has anybody tried Torbreck's "Natural Wine Project Grenache"? I spied some in a local wine shop the other day and was thinking about buying a bottle to try. Apparantly it's from an organic vineyard and no additives whatsoever. Could be interesting

I tried it perhaps 12-18mths ago, might have been the 2010 or 2011 vintage... didn't care much for it ... a bit too funky without the funkiness really adding much. Really just a bit simple for the price point.

I tried the 2010 vintage just under two years ago. I didn't find it particularly funky (though I can enjoy a lot more funk than the average Aussie palate, so no doubt many people would find it funky). I found the nose of (relative) interest, but overall it was uninspiring, and could have been somewhat better balanced.

Thanks again. Looks like I might pass on this I think.

Cheers
Ian