which grange ... now to mid-2014?

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ephraimg
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which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by ephraimg »

I'm a neophyte looking for advice from all you oenophiles. I would very much like to celebrate a special occasion that is coming up some time within the next three years with a bottle of Grange. I'm not a connoisseur, but those who will be joining me are. I want to buy the Grange now, rather than wait for the day. There is a confusing number of vintages to choose from. Which vintage would you recommend if the wine is to be drunk some time within the next three years? And should I buy only a "clinic" wine, or not worry about that issue?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

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dave vino
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by dave vino »

Do you have a budget? Different vintages are different prices. (then you have to factor in if it's been cliniced or not - has to be over 15 years to qualify)
http://www.langtons.com.au/tools/VintageChart.aspx to give you an idea of quality of vintages (bottle vagaries aside)

People in the know will know which vintages are good, so if you buy a 'cheap' bottle in a so-so year... I'd say look for something at least 20 years old.

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Wayno
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Wayno »

I'd steer towards a clinic'ed one if you're planning it for a special occasion. At least it takes cork taint out of the equation.
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griff
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by griff »

Wayno wrote:I'd steer towards a clinic'ed one if you're planning it for a special occasion. At least it takes cork taint out of the equation.


What about the new cork? Still a chance of taint I would have thought? But yes I would go for a wine that has passed the clinic as well as poor storage issues are lessened.

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Mike Hawkins
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Mike Hawkins »

I'd suggest the 76, 80, 81 and 82. All are drinking well right now.

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Craig(NZ)
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Craig(NZ) »

dave vino wrote:Do you have a budget? Different vintages are different prices. (then you have to factor in if it's been cliniced or not - has to be over 15 years to qualify)
http://www.langtons.com.au/tools/VintageChart.aspx to give you an idea of quality of vintages (bottle vagaries aside)

People in the know will know which vintages are good, so if you buy a 'cheap' bottle in a so-so year... I'd say look for something at least 20 years old.


nice chart. quick glance though omg 1993 HOG 9/10? You have to be kidding - weedy rubbish when i tried it and vs a 6/10 for the 1992? Who does these ratings!

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markg
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by markg »

Personally I would try for the 1996. It is way undervalued at auction for its quality and, whilst you could drink it now and in the near future, it still has many more years left in it way, way past 2014.
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Luke W
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Luke W »

I would support Mark with this - the 1996 Grange that Gerry bought along to our offline was superb and drinking at the peak of its life. You can still get this for under $400 at auction but I'd get in quick.

The 2001 is the other Grange I've drunk recently and it needs about another 10 years before approaching its window

Sometimes u can get the 1991's at a reasonable price and these are fabulous as well
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bacchaebabe
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by bacchaebabe »

1996? Seriously, drinking at its peak???

I'm sure it's pretty good after a very long decant but it has years ahead of it and I would think you've barely caught a glimpse of its true potential.

The 71 is drinking at its absolute peak but it's not a cheap proposition. The 83 is also in the window but has a way to go but is one of the better vintages that hasn't gone completely stratospheric in price. The vintages suggested by Mike are also drinking at their peaks, and maybe with the exception of the 76, should be relatively cheap to pick up.
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Red Smurf
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Red Smurf »

I know its an extra expense but I'd buy 2 if looking for an older vintage. (1976)
If you pour all that money into one bottle and open it for that special occasion and its stuffed or corked, it would be a bit of a let down!
You could open the other as a back up and everyone's happy.

Unless there both stuffed :oops:

Red Smurf

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ticklenow1
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by ticklenow1 »

bacchaebabe wrote:1996? Seriously, drinking at its peak???

I'm sure it's pretty good after a very long decant but it has years ahead of it and I would think you've barely caught a glimpse of its true potential.

The 71 is drinking at its absolute peak but it's not a cheap proposition. The 83 is also in the window but has a way to go but is one of the better vintages that hasn't gone completely stratospheric in price. The vintages suggested by Mike are also drinking at their peaks, and maybe with the exception of the 76, should be relatively cheap to pick up.


In defence of Luke, the 96 we had at the Brissie offline was absolutely stunning. I imagine Gerry did give it a good airing, but it was so easy to drink and was almost everyones WOTN. Whilist I do agree that it has many many years ahead, the fact that it is only 15 years old would give me cause for optimism regarding the cork. I have had the 96 twice now and both times the corks looked of a very high quality.

While I am sure all the other vintages mentioned are no doubt amazing wines, the fact that the 96 is still quite easy to come by, would make it an attractive proposition for me.
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Waiters Friend
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Waiters Friend »

No-one has mentioned one of the outstanding vintages of the last 30+ years. Get a 1986 (clinic) and open a wine in the Grange drinking window (Sparky, perhaps your advice can help here on drinking windows). I really don't think 1996 is in the window for at least the next 5 years (although may be a nice drink now).

Grange is meant to be drunk at 20+ years IMHO, and I'm looking for a really good excuse to crack one of my 1986s now. In fact, I may have to invent one.
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Mike Hawkins
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Mike Hawkins »

I had both the 91 and 96 last year and they were incredibly primary given their age(s). There's no way, at least for my tastes, that they are near their peak. That's not to say they're aren't excellent wines.

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rens
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by rens »

ticklenow1 wrote:
bacchaebabe wrote:1996? Seriously, drinking at its peak???

I'm sure it's pretty good after a very long decant but it has years ahead of it and I would think you've barely caught a glimpse of its true potential.

The 71 is drinking at its absolute peak but it's not a cheap proposition. The 83 is also in the window but has a way to go but is one of the better vintages that hasn't gone completely stratospheric in price. The vintages suggested by Mike are also drinking at their peaks, and maybe with the exception of the 76, should be relatively cheap to pick up.


In defence of Luke, the 96 we had at the Brissie offline was absolutely stunning. I imagine Gerry did give it a good airing, but it was so easy to drink and was almost everyones WOTN.


It was my WOTN that evening and Gerry had decanted it at about 7am (if memory serves)-we had it around 8 that night.
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morph_associates
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by morph_associates »

Oh lordy. Please buy something more interesting than frakking Grange! So over-contrived.
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GraemeG
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by GraemeG »

I've never thought there's a lot of point in drinking Grange young.
The budget is critical. If it's no real object, then 71, 76, 83, 86 are the go.
I think with other vintages in the 70s it's turning into more of a crap-shoot as far as storage goes.
But less-heralded vintages from the 80s might pass muster; certainly 80 itself, perhaps 84, 85, 87, 88; and these aren't stupidly priced (relatively).
89's a lovely drink but not very typical Grange.
I suppose 93 or 95 if you're desperate for something younger that's got a little age to show, but there's still too much potential left in the best 90s wines to be drinking them seriously now.
cheers,
GG

Mahmoud Ali
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Mahmoud Ali »

Regarding the 1996 Grange being at or near it's drinking window. If the wine needed to be decanted at 7am then perhaps it is not yet at it's drinking window.

It's a generalization but a wine at it's peak really only needs decanting to pour it off the sediment. I would venture to say that the longer the decant needed the farther away it is from it's ideal drinking window. All my reading tells me that the older the Grange (with limits of course) the more representative it is of what Max Scubert was trying to achieve.

Wasn't it Peter Gago (Grange winemaker) who said that his desert island Grange was the 1955?

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daz
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by daz »

Mahmoud, you're probably aware that Woolworths bought Langtons. I received an email from Dan Murphys recently advertising a single bottle of Grange 1955 for $4500. I'll be content to consume my single bottle of 1996 on my death bed, decanted and allowed to breathe for at least 12 hours if my demise becomes imminent within the next few years.

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dave vino
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by dave vino »

Forums are funny, the guy puts the post up. People reply, discuss etc, etc. You look at his profile and he hasn't been back since he made the post. (unless he hasn't logged in)

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Luke W
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Luke W »

Regarding the 1996 Grange being at or near it's drinking window. If the wine needed to be decanted at 7am then perhaps it is not yet at it's drinking window.

It's a generalization but a wine at it's peak really only needs decanting to pour it off the sediment. I would venture to say that the longer the decant needed the farther away it is from it's ideal drinking window. All my reading tells me that the older the Grange (with limits of course) the more representative it is of what Max Scubert was trying to achieve.

Wasn't it Peter Gago (Grange winemaker) who said that his desert island Grange was the 1955?

Cheers.....................Mahmoud.


Whats the difference between decanting and aging? Are we assuming that the complexities of the wine will develop with age that they won't develop with decanting? Is there a magical time when your wine is in the zone? I'm not sure that you can assume that any particular wine is going to be in its zone - I've heard of a 1997 Grange that had fallen over and not because of a cork or oxidation.

Often its just luck - I had a 2000 Maurice O'Shea the other night (decanted for 2 hours) that I thought was OK but nothing to rave about - until I had my last couple of mouthfuls and then I cursed that I hadn't let it air enough. Sometimes it goes the other way - I had a 1996 389 that did the opposite - started beautifully and then quickly fell apart. My point is that there's often no magical way of determining this and if some bottles of the 1996 Grange are beautiful after some decanting aren't you better off enjoying them than waiting for some of them to fall over and be disappointing?

By illustration, I've drunk 2 bottles of 55 Grange - the first in 1983 with 5 mates and its still the best wine I've drunk to this day. The second in 1994 and it was frankly disappointing......

cheers

Luke
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AndrewCowley
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by AndrewCowley »

Luke W wrote:Whats the difference between decanting and aging? Are we assuming that the complexities of the wine will develop with age that they won't develop with decanting? Is there a magical time when your wine is in the zone? I'm not sure that you can assume that any particular wine is going to be in its zone - I've heard of a 1997 Grange that had fallen over and not because of a cork or oxidation.

Often its just luck - I had a 2000 Maurice O'Shea the other night (decanted for 2 hours) that I thought was OK but nothing to rave about - until I had my last couple of mouthfuls and then I cursed that I hadn't let it air enough.

Yes, I've had a couple of 2000 Maurice O'Sheas and concluded the same. Needs a massive decent. Actually I found it to be best the day after opening.

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Waiters Friend
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Re: which grange ... now to mid-2014?

Post by Waiters Friend »

So, after all this advice, what are you going to go for? And when is the special occasion actually occuring? 3 years?

If it has to be Grange, go for the oldest you can get. If the vintage has a 6 on the end, then so much the better.
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