The Auswine Forum

http://www.smh.com.au/polls/executive-s ... l#comments

ANY BUYERS ?

Err, no.

(I'd go so far as to say that anyone buying this needs their head seeing to)

sorry posted twice

Don't let it appear I am on the high horse, as I have myself bought the odd very expensive wine myself ($400 on a 96 Latour and $550 on a 97 yquem spring to mind), however I am a little older and wiser now perhaps and the opportunity costs paid for yet another expensive drink just see me bypassing these types of wines.

Whether it is "unicef" as one of the commenters to the article pens or your own childs running club subscriptions, to me letting go the opportunity to own and drink these types of wines is becoming a very easy decision to make.

However the other point of view is this. Some people drink a $15-20 bottle every night, where I only drink a bottle or two a week. If those bottles are on average more expensive it still doesnt make total spend out of the ordinary!

I hardly ever spend a dime at a pub or the movies either, i hardly ever buy a concert ticket... so.....I guess 'each to his own' is the answer to this?

As much as I enjoy Torbreck wines, and Dave's a great guy to have a beer with, I can't find a rational reason to fork over such serious $$ for this. You can easily multiply your happiness by buying several bottles of top quality wines with that cash.

It seems to me that it probably doesn't matter what's in the bottle. It will only be bought by persons who get a thrill from bragging that they bought/are serving/are drinking Australia's most expensive wine. Fortunately for Torbreck there are enough of them out there to make a very tidy sum. The good news is that the money can subsidise grape growers, etc for the cheaper bread and butter wines (sorry about the cliche).

I don't mind it as a BBQ quaffer when I dont feel like Petrus.

Or I could buy

2 Bottles of Rocford BP
2 Bottles of Clonakilla SV
2 Bottles of Lakes Folly
2 Bottles of Wendouree Shiraz
1 Bottle of Mt Edelstone
1 Bottle of Cyril Henschke
and still have change for the partridge in a pear tree.

Dave Vino

That is an eloquent and direct response to the question at hand. I applaud you.

Allan

PS: from someone that has never spent more than $300 on a bottle of wine.......

I haven't kept up with this of late but question...

Isn't Chris Ringland Three Rivers the most expensive Australian wine? Or is that on the secondary market?

NZ has a bit of "catching up" to do. Our most expensive as far as I am aware is Destiny Bay Magna Praema at a bargain $275 for a current release

Can't wait for next year's Grange to retail at $750.00.

Not that I buy Grange anymore.

-- George Krashos

Bick wrote:Err, no.

(I'd go so far as to say that anyone buying this needs their head seeing to)

I'm with him

Chuck

I don't understand the hype of Torbreck. Never have and I suspect I never will. Generally overpriced and opportunistic IMHO.

Waiters Friend wrote:Dave Vino

That is an eloquent and direct response to the question at hand. I applaud you.

Allan

PS: from someone that has never spent more than $300 on a bottle of wine.......

I have but only one. $320 for a Grange 96 through the old Winepros/Vintage Cellars connection. I've noted that Halliday still has that connection through the Wine Companion site.

Craig(NZ) wrote:NZ has a bit of "catching up" to do. Our most expensive as far as I am aware is Destiny Bay Magna Praema at a bargain $275 for a current release

My dismissive response to the Torbreck would apply to the waste of money represented by DB magna praemia too

Pricing up to $150, or thereabouts, can be justified for certain wines by high production costs at the top end (i.e. hand picking/sorting, new barrels, increased efforts requiring extra FTE's to produce, etc) and some additional icon-type surcharge justified by the "insurance" you may feel you get from a superb history of successful vintages of the wine in the past. The latter justification is pretty much null and void of course if the label is new (i.e. the Torbreck and the Destiny Bay) and you're only left with production expenses to justify the cost. This surely means the cost should max out somewhere around $100-150/btl unless you're ripping off the consumer. While the producers may think they're producing wines of exceptional quaility, it not hard to point to other extraordinarily good wines that cost 'as little' as $100. Ergo, these super-expensive wines (in their respective regions) are simply not worth it.

Craig - yes, I thought Ringland's wine was $800 rrp as well. Can anyone comment?

Tried the Destiny Bay once and I did quite like it, however buying it another story!

I guess the threshold between acceptable price and rip off varies by individual. I have some friends that would think over $12 is "needing head read" territory.

Craig(NZ) wrote:I guess the threshold between acceptable price and rip off varies by individual. I have some friends that would think over $12 is "needing head read" territory.

Whilst that's absolutely true, if you harvest a low weight of fruit per hectare, hand sort the grapes, use some new oak, and rack a few times, it would be quite impossible to do so for $12/btl, so paying a certain amount over $12 is at least defendable. I'd argue paying $700 simply isn't, regardless of the viticultural and winemaking methods used.

Bick wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:I guess the threshold between acceptable price and rip off varies by individual. I have some friends that would think over $12 is "needing head read" territory.

Whilst that's absolutely true, if you harvest a low weight of fruit per hectare, hand sort the grapes, use some new oak, and rack a few times, it would be quite impossible to do so for $12/btl, so paying a certain amount over $12 is at least defendable. I'd argue paying $700 simply isn't, regardless of the viticultural and winemaking methods used.

Yes. It is capitalistically opportunistic.

I can understand some having to do it after being Parkerised (Chambers Rare Muscat springs to mind) by people looking to buy cases of it to profit from them on the secondary market.

That's ridiculously steep for a wine with no track record...

Yes, I have been guilty of lashing out on some pretty extravagant wines , but this kind of release is just taking the piss isn't it?

A first growth Bordeaux, grand cru Burgundy, or even a Grange any day of the week...

Cheers,

Monghead.

There was a slightly longer article on this in the Good Living pull out I think. It said the grapes are coming from the vineyard that has in the past produced Rolf Binder's The Malcom and Chris Ringland's Three Rivers. I bought early versions of both these wines. the Malcom for $60 a bottle and the Three Rivers for $90 a bottle. ObviouslyThree Rivers went stratospheric in price, well above $700 at one stage however there was never much of the Malcom about and you don't see it much on the secondary market.

I drank one of my Malcoms about two years ago and it was the most intense wine I've ever had. I'm sure there's a tasting note here somewhere if one cares to look. I'm pretty sure it was the 96 vintage but it reeked of licorice almost like a pernod or absinthe. I've left the other bottles to calm down a bit before I go there again. I'm sure the Torbreck effort will be a fabulous wine but I've personally cut right down on buying expensive wine these days. I haven't bought much over $100 for a while. I did buy a case of the Torbreck 02 run rig on release and it wasn't cheap but each bottle has been fantastic and bordering on worth the money.

It's like anything, if you can afford it and justify it then go for it. If not, don't. We all earn different money and have different priorities.

I assume this was the vineyard used by Magpie Estate "The Malcom" up to 1999? There was none made 2000-2003 I think. The newer versions from 2004 or 2005 changed vineyard from what I know.

I reckon these low volume makes do nothing to enhance Australian wines as a whole, and basically look a bit naff. DaveB was poking fun / taking the p*ss on the other forum in a nice way saying that his vineyard was going to beat this by selling bottles at $1000+ each from a single vineyard ... two bottles would be made ... one as museum stock and one to sell or maybe drink on a river boat trip with some US wine critics. That's kind of how I see this wine too.

Australia needs wines like Bin 389 1996 made in the tens of thousands of cases which promotes price and value. Or Wynns BL 1990. Oh wait, those days are gone, I wonder why the export markets are drying up lads?

Jay60A wrote:Australia needs wines like Bin 389 1996 made in the tens of thousands of cases which promotes price and value. Or Wynns BL 1990. Oh wait, those days are gone, I wonder why the export markets are drying up lads?

A perceptive, apposite comment. Its the "middle ground" of sensibly priced, well made, fine wine where the reputation should be made. I just hope NZ doesn't go too far down the 'silly-pricing-for-single-vineyard' route, but I fear I may be disappointed, viz all the single vineyard top end Otago pinot edging out the decent, well priced, 'normal' wines we use to laud.

I have changed a bit. These days:

75% of my current purchases are all well mid priced wines that offer big value for the price tag. Whether Doctors Riesling, Villa CS CSM, Church Rd Res Syrah of Cab Merlot or $30 Le Sol '-)

20% of my wine purchases will be wines that are a bit more expensive but deliver on their price tag eg Coleraine, Kumeu River Chardonnays.

5% of my purchases are wines that are probably over par on vfm spectrum but I really like so I buy eg the odd culty wine

Craig(NZ) wrote:I haven't kept up with this of late but question...

Isn't Chris Ringland Three Rivers the most expensive Australian wine? Or is that on the secondary market?

NZ has a bit of "catching up" to do. Our most expensive as far as I am aware is Destiny Bay Magna Praema at a bargain $275 for a current release

I thought there was a wine called Longitude ( ? ) by R Wines and its listing price was $1000 a couple of years ago?

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PR exercise.
"A fool and his money are soon parted.".
Once upon a time Penfolds were supposedly bidding on Grange to push the price up at auction.
And set "record" prices...All it cost them was the commission and tax.
That worked too.
As for being Australia's most intense wine...pigs!

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maybe by doing this exercise of upping the Laird price by 100% ($350-400 max imo), people may now see the Run Rig as acceptable purchase & the likes of The Factor & Descendant as 'cheap'.... In a single stroke, Dave revamped his whole range to another level.... as people may think 'so i can't afford that Laird then i must get some Run Rig instead...' but before we see Run Rig as too expensive now we see it as value for money..... genius

I don't see any problem with Torbreck marketing their top wine being one of the most expansive wine down under.
After all, this is the essence of the free market; sooner or later the market will determine.
Personally, the Run Rig is my favourite, over the years it becomes too dear and I have stop buying it, but Dave still produce
it, therefore must be enough support out there.
Talking about value for money Grange is never worth near that much money, but this the free market and there is always someone willing to pay for it. Its really good to see someone have guts to challenge the icons
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers
Boyeah

I just picked up a copy of Winestate Magazine, and there's a number of vintages of the Cathcart Ridge Estate The Grampian Shiraz ranging between the $380 - $420 mark. The 2003 release at $385 is reviewed as "Getting tired".

Bummer if you paid full-price for that wine...