Wines for Vietnamese Restaurant?

[Red Red Wine]

Hi all

I'm setting up a Vietnamese restaurant in the Eastern suburb and to be honest I'm stuck as to what should be included. I know there must be Reds and Whites but I was wondering if people on this forum
would give me their opinions as to what they like.

FYI - The restaurant is not up scale, but rather more modest in it's decor. Food prices aren't that expensive as you might know being an Asian restaurant. I'm talking about $8 ish for entree and $15 - 25 for mains.

Your opinions would be much appreciated.

[griff]

Whites are good, preferably unwooded. Rose is good as well. Keep it tight and simple with just a couple of more expensive drops? It also depends on how interesting you want the list. If you want boutique wines then you need someone on the floor who knows the wines or at least have a short description of the wine under the name on the list as the customers may not know what to expect. On the other hand I think most here would want interesting wines if we weren't able to BYO. Outside Melbourne and Sydney you may want to be slightly parochial. At least have a few wines that are local. Regional heros so to speak.

Peter Lehmann Semillon is a cheap and good value white.
Take your choice of Riesling. So many lovelies. Pewsey Vale is a fave.
You need a cat's pee brew as it sells. I'll let others comment on that.
Take a punt and find a cheaper German riesling. Off dry and a good match for the food. Halb trocken or kabinett. St Urbanshof, Schloss Lieser, Dr Loosen etc. If too pricy then the Bellarmine Riesling which is cheaper.
Another atypical varietal for the trendy people. I would go for something like an Ashbrook verdelho. A little pricy perhaps.
And a sparkling. Brown Bros are great for the price but a little mainstream. Maybe a bourgogne white sparkling?

Rose. Maybe a Charles Melton or similar.
Mrs Wiggly Moscato

And then reds. Not too many. And reds that aren't too tannic.
A beaujoulais. Good for trendy people.
Hoddles Pinot. You just can't find a pinot that is this cheap and this good anywhere else.
Teusner Joshua GSM or similar.
Not sure about shiraz but it is popular. Schist Block that I tried this week is great value.
A spanish joven style garnacha or mataro. Check out shaggy's blog for something nice. Also a trendy option.

Just a few thoughts.

cheers

Carl

[ChrisV]

The questions of what people like us think should be on a wine list and what should be on a wine list if you aim to keep the average punter happy are rather different... by the way, you didn't mention your city, but I deduce from your other posts that it is Melbourne.

Putting my profit-maximising hat on, your wine list should consist of:

- A bunch of standard NZ sav blanc options. Oyster Bay, Giesen, etc etc. Probably at least 3 different options. An Australian one as well. You're serving the mass market here so no need to get too fancy.
- One semillon, maybe Tyrrell's Stevens or Peter Lehmann.
- A couple of nice rieslings. The Jim Barry Watervale is a perennial overachiever for the price, then you'd need a more upmarket one.
- If possible, one gewurztraminer. Not sure what to recommend.
- A chardonnay. You're spoilt for choice in Victoria. Hoddles Creek maybe, or Stonier, or whatever. Lot of pretty smart wines around for roughly $20.

- One rose. The Turkey Flat or Charles Melton are crowd pleasers.

- Couple of pinots. Hoddles Creek is usually exceptional, I'd go with Permutations as well.

- Some red wines. Since drinking red (other than pinot) with Vietnamese is generally speaking not something people who are serious about wine would do, I'd go pretty cheap. A couple of options of the Jacob's Creek ilk, just whatever you can get for a good price. The Yering Station Shiraz Viognier is a consistent Victorian product that provides a slightly more upmarket option.

You should try to figure out your market a little bit. If you think trendy types will be customers, throw in some of the stuff carl mentioned (beaujolais, german riesling etc). Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

[ChrisV]

Oh and forgot about sparkling. Yarra Burn or Jansz or something. And maybe a sparkling red - Mt Jagged is reasonable and pretty cheap.

[dave vino]

Also I think it depends on how you price your wine list. If you are looking at doubling over retail you'll find people probably won't pay $50 for a $25 bottle of wine with a $30 dinner. So maybe keep the retail at around $15 a bottle so it's only $30 a bottle on the wine list for the majority of the wines, with a few pricier options for those inclined.

Personally I'd stick with the big boys that the average punter would know. (Peter Lehmann, Penfolds, De Bertoli etc) then maybe a quirky one or two. Keep them lighter (riesling/semillon/gewurz, pinot noir, gsm, shiraz)

[rens]

Also I think it depends on how you price your wine list. If you are looking at doubling over retail you'll find people probably won't pay $50 for a $25 bottle of wine with a $30 dinner. So maybe keep the retail at around $15 a bottle so it's only $30 a bottle on the wine list for the majority of the wines, with a few pricier options for those inclined.

Personally I'd stick with the big boys that the average punter would know. (Peter Lehmann, Penfolds, De Bertoli etc) then maybe a quirky one or two. Keep them lighter (riesling/semillon/gewurz, pinot noir, gsm, shiraz)

I agree. If the resteraunt clients are your average punter stick with the well known brands. Someone on the forum last year (can't remember who) had a party and brought out a lot of wine from their cellar (good stuff too) as well as the penfolds, peter Lehmann and De Bortelli etc) The good stuff from the cellar was hardly touched and they ran out of the 'big brand' stuff.
If your customers are ordinary people, serve them ordinary wines. Take a look at your local bottelo. Places like BWS are a good guide as to what to put on a wine list. Visit the BWS in the area you are setting up shop and see what the local people are drinking. Your wine list should be easy from that point on.

[odyssey]

Or you could be a complete rebel, totally flabbergast and frustrate the restaurant industry mafia cartel, and only charge a small nominal markup on wine RRP (ie. only enough to cover license, delivery, glassware and storage) and let the quality of your food and reasonably priced wine bring the customers in by the bucketloads.

Huh WHA? Sorry I think I just woke up from a ridiculous dream. What was I saying again?......

[sparky]

I'd be far more interested in what's on your beer list to be honest, but here's a few radical ideas.

In my jaded ex-wine rep opinion, the length,quality and price of your list probably should be directly proportional to the distance and ease of access to the local bottle-O, particularly if you want to make a profit. If it's quite close have you done the numbers on the relative cost of full service BYO (like pizza delivery) compared to the cost of maintaining a full liquor licence?

Another option is to stick with BYO for a few weeks/months and make note of what the punters bring in. It will give you an idea of what they are drinking, if not neccesarily what they will pay for.

Go completely minimal - offer one reasonable quality Vietnamese cuisine friendly white and one red by the glass/bottle until further options are demanded. That's it. Less storage, less overhead, less headache.

Speak to your local friendly wine producer who can offer an 'on-premise' only range that isn't available in retail land so you don't end up having arguments over the spring rolls with auswine forumites about your mark-up

For god's sake, make sure you stock some decent imported Asian beers.

[Red Red Wine]

oh man. Finally have a chance to breath and reply to this post.

Thanks all for giving me your opinions. At this stage I'm looking at some cheaper alternatives as you've mentioned.
As for quality Asian beers, what did you have in mind Sparky or anyone else for that matter?

[sparky]

I can tell you what my personal preferences are, but they might be completely off the rails as far as any one else goes.. Should also mention that I crew on the Fosters funship so I'm not going to mention any 'in-house' brands.

I always like to drink what the locals would, so I'd be looking for 333 or Tsingtao, provided you can get it from a reputable importer/supplier who can get it into the country well within its drinking window and without cooking the bejesus out of it on the way.

[Michael McNally]

Check where the beers are imported from also. I recently bought some Asahi and it was imported........from Canada

It was quite okay though!

Tiger, though Malaysian is very food friendly as is Singha. Locally produced versions not quite as good as the imported version IMHO. Sorry Sparky.

Say no to Kingfisher!

Cheers

Michael

[sparky]

Tiger, though Malaysian is very food friendly as is Singha. Locally produced versions not quite as good as the imported version IMHO. Sorry Sparky.

No offence taken seeing it's not one of ours! At least I don't think so....last time I looked. Better go and check the portfolio again - damn thing keeps changing...

[daz]

Check where the beers are imported from also. I recently bought some Asahi and it was imported........from Canada

It was quite okay though!

Tiger, though Malaysian is very food friendly as is Singha. Locally produced versions not quite as good as the imported version IMHO. Sorry Sparky.

Say no to Kingfisher!

Cheers

Michael

Tiger Beer was first brewed in Singapore Michael - I don't recall having ever tasted it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Pacific_Breweries

I first tried Singha (Thailand) some years ago when it was 6% alc, was rather impressed by it but the alc is now 5% and when I tried it last wasn't as impressed, it seemed to not have quite the depth of hops flavour. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singha

Birra Moretti is a lightish lager that I think is a nice summer beer when well-chilled, would go well with any spicy asian food. Heineken now own the label that was established 1859, some 70 years or so before the two above. I thought it better than the Kingfisher I've tried.

Cheers

daz