The Auswine Forum

These were all tasted blind at a retailers tasting a few weeks back.

The ten wines on offer were from 5 different producers, with each winery contributing one absolute 'icon' Shiraz, as well as an 'entry level' Shiraz.

All wines decanted for 6 hours before tasting.

Prices are RRP, with the rankings (mine and groups) at the end

These tasting notes are a bit raw as I've copied them straight from my notebook

Wine 1: Chris Ringland Barossa Shiraz 2008
Sourced from the valley floor, 16.5% alcohol, $23.95
Strawberry red pink rim. Very dense caramel and fig nose. Lots of raw American oak. Nice fragrance if just a bit cherry ripe-ish in its density and oak. Very ripe, luscious, but attenuated by alcohol through the finish. Raw oak. Could be an icon, but didn't totally move me, more mid level. 17.3/91 (My 5th, Group 9th)

Wine 2: First Drop Mothers Milk Shiraz 2008
Sourced from three vineyards, one near Rosedale in the SW Barossa, another near Greenock in the NW Barossa and a third near Wilton in the Eden Valley. 15 months in 3-4yr old French hogsheads. 14.5% alc, $29.95
Denser and darker than wine 1. Much more purple in colour. Volatile nose. Deeper, more red fruit, hot red fruit and cherry liqueur. Tastes Northern Barossan, choc Ebenezer-ish (somewhat wrong there). Oak is well integrated - very classy. Alcohol heat through the finish. More in the Torbreck style. Less raw than wine 1, yet still ultimately hot. Really solid through the middle though. (Drinkable and good value stuff) 17.5/92 (My 4th, Group 3rd)

Wine 3: Kaesler Old Bastard Shiraz 2006
Sourced from the 1893 home block, planted just near the winery at Nurioopta. 19 months in Burgundian oak. Bottled without fining or filtration. 15.5% alc, $190
Quite purple and very densely coloured. Smells oaky, oak driven, raw oak nose. Strained fruit, but without losing vibrancy. Still a skinny nose. Very raw and oaky, astringent oak, with oak shadowing the fruit. Oak tannins. Do you like expensive French oak? (this got better with more time in the glass, hence the score went up, still rather OTT). 17/90 (My 6th, Group 7th)

Wine 4: Chris Ringland (Formerly Three Rivers) Shiraz 2003
Sourced from the estate vineyard in the Flaxmans Valley, planted in 1910. 42 months in new French oak!. 15.6% alc, $850
Lighter edges. Looks older. Boot polish and leather. Classy nose. More iconic. Big and luscious, classy oak. Much more fruit here. Kirsch. Savoury and very deep fruited. Eden? (got one right). Blacker fruit. Leather, both new and old. Classy. No heat. (God I enjoyed this. So deep. Very drinkable too. Yum) 18.5/95 (My 2nd, Group 10th!)

Wine 5: Torbreck Woodcutters Shiraz 2008
Sourced mainly from the Northern Barossa - Marananga, Greenock, Ebenezer, Gomersal, Moppa and Kalimna. 12 months in well seasoned French hogsheads and foudres. Unfined and unfiltered. 14.5% $32.95
Mid red, purple edges. Spicy plum liqueur and pepper. Lifted by alcohol but ultimately quite pretty. Sweet fruit and candied lolly nose. Candied. Palate is hot and sweet, lots of sweet fruit. Obviously raisined and pruney, but curiously not oppressive. Very youthful, with an unusual skinsy overtone. Intriguing (After a while I decided this was too sweet and ordinary and the score went down dramatically) 16/87 (My 10th, Group 6th)

Wine 6: Torbreck The Laird Shiraz 2005
Sourced from the Gnadenfrei vineyard, located on the ridge between Seppeltsfield and Marananga in the Northern Barossa. Matured for 36 months in Dominique Laurent's 'magic casks'. Bottled without fining or filtration. 15.58% alc, $825
More age here. Very raisined. Overripe. Lots of oak. Caricature of a nose. Overripe and porty on the palate. Dry and very much red port like on the palate. Do you like Aussie port? As a table wine it's ridiculous, as a port it might be alright. Varnished floorboards. Saddles. Ridiculous. (Just not my style of wine I'm afraid) 16.5/88 (My 8th, Group 2nd)

Wine 7: First Drop 'The Cream' Shiraz 2006
41% Greenock, 35% Ebenezer, 24% Seppeltsfield. Best barrels blend. 24 months in 40% new French hogsheads, 30% new American barriques. 15% alc, $125
Intrigue. Closed nose. Brooding and deep. Toast and lots of depth. More old school. Very dark. Rockford-ish. Meat and real chunk. Dark and deep. Quite tannic too. Subtle. Swallowable. (Beautiful wine this one. Delicious. Very backwards too. My sort of wine) 18.7/95 (My 1st, Group 5th)

Wine 8: Kaesler Stonehorse Shiraz 2008
12 months in 3 year old plus oak.
Pruney, sweet nose again. Shiraz Viognier? (bingo! Though its only got a smidgen apparently). Pretty colour too. Sweet and light wine that's attractive but stunted. (Lots of commercial appeal, but not for me) 16.4/88 (My 9th, Group 4th)

Wine 9: Hobbs Shiraz 2007
Hand picked from vines planted circa 1905 located next door to the Three Rivers vineyard. 24 months in new French hogsheads. 16% alc, $155
Lighter, redder. Very volatile. Chocolate prunes. Sweet oak and sweet fruit, but backed by savoury fruit. Savoury and complex. Nuanced even. Not quite a superstar, but very savoury, honest and delicious. 18.2/93 (My 3rd, Group 1st)

Wine 10: Hobbs 'Gregor' Shiraz 2007
Produced off a parcel of Shiraz planted in 1988, located in the Flaxmans Valley. Fruit is handpicked and then semi dried in an Amarone style. Aged in new French oak for 24 months. 16% alc, $155
Choc bullet oak. Very chocolatey nose. All chocolate oak. Fleshy, rich but simple palate. Falls away towards the tail, which is caramelised and hot. Hard. (I'll take the standard Shiraz). 16.6/88 (My 7th, Group 8th)

Andrew

Thanks for the notes Andrew. Sounds like a great wine experience. Amazing how tasting things blind levels the playing field somewhat, though from what you write the "icon" style might not be what you look for in a wine?

Cheers

Michael

Look at the alcohol levels. Gawd.
And: prunes, raisins, heat. Prunes. Hot.
This is not the future. No wonder the reputation of Oz shiraz is copping a hammering.
cheers,
G

Michael - 'Icon' seems too often to be a euphemism for 'disappointment'

GraemeG wrote:Look at the alcohol levels. Gawd.
And: prunes, raisins, heat. Prunes. Hot.
This is not the future. No wonder the reputation of Oz shiraz is copping a hammering.
cheers,
G

Agree!!....those alcohol levels are almost Bordeaux-like!

Thanks for the impressions Andrew. While it makes for interesting reading, I'm not sure I'd draw too many conclusions from the tasting.

To be honest, I'd prefer to see all the wines from the same vintage or at least some from notably cooler years in comparison (2002, 2004) - considering how hot 2003 and 2007 were (not to mention anything potentially picked late in 2006 & 2008) the alcohol levels & descriptions aren't that surprising.

It also would have been good to see a couple of more 'established' wines in the line up (Penfolds, Henschke), not to mention something that is lower in alcohol as well (say, Winter Creek which consistently comes in under 14%, and I think Teusner's offerings tend to be more modest than a lot of those too).

Cheers,
Ian

GraemeG wrote:Look at the alcohol levels. Gawd.
And: prunes, raisins, heat. Prunes. Hot.
This is not the future. No wonder the reputation of Oz shiraz is copping a hammering.
cheers,
G

True..., unfortunately most poeple equate Aus Shiraz with the Barossa at the expense of regions like Great Southern, Central Vic, even the Yarra Valley etc etc that get lost in the debate and are doing great things with Shiraz. Really need to get the message out that we are producing more elegant cooler climate wines.

n4sir wrote:Thanks for the impressions Andrew. While it makes for interesting reading, I'm not sure I'd draw too many conclusions from the tasting.

Agreed. Would have been very interesting to see some more classical Barossa icons (Stonewall, Meshach, Hill of Grace etc) mixed in there. Was fun to look at the likes of Three Rivers et al which I am never likely to actually purchase a bottle of though.

Andrew

DaveB wrote:

GraemeG wrote:Look at the alcohol levels. Gawd.
And: prunes, raisins, heat. Prunes. Hot.
This is not the future. No wonder the reputation of Oz shiraz is copping a hammering.
cheers,
G

Agree!!....those alcohol levels are almost Bordeaux-like!

Well, perhaps for the three or four Vintages of the Century in the last decade - they certainly are.
But are the Bordelais striving for Barossa-like tannins?

cheers,
Graeme

Is that Torbrek really $825.00 a bottle!?

Brand Australia is copping a hammering at the moment and Brand Barossa seems to be at the front line of it. I am aware of some brand Australia initiatives... are Barossa wine-makers on the front foot with anything?

Apparently it can be had for closer to $680. $825 is RRP (which could just be mythical).

GraemeG wrote:

DaveB wrote:

GraemeG wrote:Look at the alcohol levels. Gawd.
And: prunes, raisins, heat. Prunes. Hot.
This is not the future. No wonder the reputation of Oz shiraz is copping a hammering.
cheers,
G

Agree!!....those alcohol levels are almost Bordeaux-like!

Well, perhaps for the three or four Vintages of the Century in the last decade - they certainly are.
But are the Bordelais striving for Barossa-like tannins?

cheers,
Graeme

Not yet Graeme....it's on the cards though

cheers

Dave

Julio G wrote:Brand Australia is copping a hammering at the moment and Brand Barossa seems to be at the front line of it. I am aware of some brand Australia initiatives... are Barossa wine-makers on the front foot with anything?

There's a few things happening....plenty of overseas trade and media visitors....seems like there is a group through every week at present which is great. There is a project running called Terroirs of the Barossa....a long term affair looking at differences in wines, soils, climate, etc within the region. Various things happening at overseas trade show....LIWF is on as we speak and there's a fair bit of Barossa stuff going on there.

There has been a bit of positive chatter regarding Aussie wines on various overseas boards over the last couple of weeks so that makes a change.

Not that I'm in the know in the slightest, but I suspect it'll turn around with time. We all have our moments in the sun, and in the shadow.

If the Barossa (and other Aus winemakers in their respective areas) focus on quality balanced wines that make the best of their 'terroir' (gulp) then karma will prove them right in the end.

My personal generalisation is that Aussie is caught up in the Anti-Parkerisation that is sweeping the Euro-Focused establishment of wine influencers. Indeed many Aus producers ARE guilty of jumping on the short term dopamine based Parker bandwagon (as the notes on many substandard overpriced icons in this thread seem to prove, albeit with some exceptions), but to tar WA, Hunter, Victoria and so many in SA with that brush is not unexpected but certainly unfair.

I feel sanity will rule eventually.

Cheers
TiggerK

I am getting a bit tired of the anti-Barossa/SA Shiraz bandwagon. For every Mollydooker or Yellowtail, there is an old vine Shiraz that is delicious and without obvious new oak, dried prune, dead fruit etc. I get that people with cool climate/european/refined/delicate palates do not like this style. Luckily for the winemakers from these regions, thousands and thousands of people (critics and importantly consumers) still do (despite the fact that tastes are changing towards lighter styles - such is life).

Still, it seems like the Parker era (now over)that dished out 100pt ratings to Barossa and McLaren Vale wines (with Parker writing regions like the Yarra off as effectively being overrated) has miffed quite a few people, and now is the time to possibly sink the knife in.

PS - not refering to/criticising the review that started the blog, or to any one post on this thread in particular - everyone has their own tastes and is entitled to their own opinion!

Good call Rod,

In that tasting there were several (not inexpensive) wines that I would happily shell out for, The standard Hobbs Shiraz and The First Drop 'the Cream' in particular were delicious wines.

The problem perhaps lies in how divisive this style of wine is, with pricetags that hardly help.

Andrew

Hindmarsh wrote:I am getting a bit tired of the anti-Barossa/SA Shiraz bandwagon. For every Mollydooker or Yellowtail, there is an old vine Shiraz that is delicious and without obvious new oak, dried prune, dead fruit etc. I get that people with cool climate/european/refined/delicate palates do not like this style. Luckily for the winemakers from these regions, thousands and thousands of people (critics and importantly consumers) still do (despite the fact that tastes are changing towards lighter styles - such is life).

Still, it seems like the Parker era (now over)that dished out 100pt ratings to Barossa and McLaren Vale wines (with Parker writing regions like the Yarra off as effectively being overrated) has miffed quite a few people, and now is the time to possibly sink the knife in.

PS - not refering to/criticising the review that started the blog, or to any one post on this thread in particular - everyone has their own tastes and is entitled to their own opinion!

I guess I'd disagree here. I really enjoy good, balanced, shiraz and other reds from South Australia. Yes, there is an over-the-top backlash against the category of "big Australian red" in some markets and circles. But this is not just about people not liking "the style". I like the style. What I don't like is evident alcohol heat at the expense of balance and flavour. What I like even less are head in the sand attitudes from parts of the SA wine industry that this could be a problem, and not just a matter of style preferences.

[quote="pstarr"][quote="Hindmarsh"]I am getting a bit tired of the anti-Barossa/SA Shiraz bandwagon. For every Mollydooker or Yellowtail, there is an old vine Shiraz that is delicious and without obvious new oak, dried prune, dead fruit etc. I get that people with cool climate/european/refined/delicate palates do not like this style. Luckily for the winemakers from these regions, thousands and thousands of people (critics and importantly consumers) still do (despite the fact that tastes are changing towards lighter styles - such is life).

Still, it seems like the Parker era (now over)that dished out 100pt ratings to Barossa and McLaren Vale wines (with Parker writing regions like the Yarra off as effectively being overrated) has miffed quite a few people, and now is the time to possibly sink the knife in.

PS - not refering to/criticising the review that started the blog, or to any one post on this thread in particular - everyone has their own tastes and is entitled to their own opinion! [/quote]

I guess I'd disagree here. I really enjoy good, balanced, shiraz and other reds from South Australia. Yes, there is an over-the-top backlash against the category of "big Australian red" in some markets and circles. But this is not just about people not liking "the style". I like the style. What I don't like is evident alcohol heat at the expense of balance and flavour. What I like even less are head in the sand attitudes from parts of the SA wine industry that this could be a problem, and not just a matter of style preferences.[/quote]


Andrew - I agree the style is divisive. It polarises, based mostly on palate and preference for a certain style of wine, though also due to fashion and trends (as is the case with wine, music, clothes, etc). The price tags do not help, especially given some of the US-focussed blockbusters out there that do not measure up to the hype/Parker points (a lesson many Barossa winemakers learnt a while ago, yet some have not).

pstarr - I too really enjoy good, balanced Shiraz and other reds from South Australia (amongst many other styles!). What I would argue is that even with SA wines from great/very good vintages (eg: IMO 2004, 2006) are being labelled as high alcohol when they are actually quite balanced (as Andrew says, it is a divisive style). Given the 2007 and 2008 vintages in the Barossa and SA, is it any wonder there is high alcohol heat in the wines? (throwing it all in and not making any wine in these vintages is a luxury 98% of wineries cannot afford). I am not buying much from those vintages from those regions (with a few very pleasing exceptions), though I am also not touching 2007 / 2009 Yarra Reds, or 2006 Margaret River Cab either.

Anyways, just venting (politely, I hope) about the backlash - I hope what results is the continued trend towards higher quality, balanced Shiraz and Red blends in the Barossa and SA, climate and vintage permitting.

Cheers

Rod