"Correct" syrah/shiraz

[orpheus]

This piece by Geoff Kelly, respected NZ wine critic, is well worth a read, and well argued, whether you agree with it or not.

http://geoffkelly.com/index.php?ArticleID=88

I have extracted a passage below, for those who find my inept attempt at a link discouraging.

"The Syrah Ripening Curve, re judging the variety:
Syrah is not that difficult to suss, if in judging it, more attention is paid to the bouquet of the wine, rather than the taste (as it should be, if subtleties are to be captured). Syrah as it ripens towards optimal physiological flavour maturity passes through a sequence of aroma analogies which can be summarised on bouquet as:
green and stalky
--> leafy
--> leafy and leafy / floral
--> red currants and suggestions of dianthus florals ± white pepper
--> cassis / black currants and sweetly floral dianthus / wallflower / buddleia notes ± white pepper grading though to black pepper
--> cassis grading through dark plums ± blueberry to black plums, plus freshly-cracked black peppercorn and spice, the florals now darker (red roses, violets) and progressively becoming attenuated
--> bottled black plums ± blueberry, still ideally with cracked black peppercorn tapering out
--> bottled black plums and blackberry mixed
--> boysenberry.
Beyond that the wines become more and more pruney and grossly over-ripe, as so much Aussie shiraz was in the '60s and '70s (and some still are in the ‘00s).

Perfect ripeness / maximum complexity for syrah is where florals, pepper and spice, cassis and dark plums are all equipoised. These wines, as from Cote Rotie and Hermitage, epitomise the syrah wine-style. Above this point is sur-maturité, and the wines progressivly merge into the shiraz wine-style. On this scale, virtually all Australian shiraz (except some of the exciting wines from Western Australia and cooler Victoria) falls into the boysenberry category, and thus clearly over-ripe. Hence the oak fetish in recent decades in Australia, to restore some kind of spurious 'complexity' to bouquets diminished through fruit over-ripeness, in temperatures inimical to floral complexity.

One message from these observations is: wine judges who fail to score the bouquets of all the wines, as a separate step, before cluttering their mouths with saturating tannins, cannot hope to discriminate in this continuum of aromas. Thus the syrahs may not be recognised at all amongst the shirazes, as in this instance, and those wines therefore go un-rewarded. I would argue that spending a little longer in assessing the wines, in order to get a much better result, is time well spent. There is no merit whatsoever, and much to be lost, in judging being a race to finish first. Assessing each wine, and recognising what each individual wine is trying to achieve, is much more important. These results show what happens when there is not time to do that."

Particularly interesting, I think, is the suggestion that complexity necessarily diminishes once a certain level of ripeness (below that achieved in most Australian syrah) is reached.

Remember, he is discussing the nose, not the palate. It struck a bit of a chord with me, because when I first tasted the recent wave of top NZ syrahs, I was immediately enchanted by the floral notes on the nose.

But is it as simple as his analysis suggests?

[odyssey]

So in summary, after reading the article in its entirety, the Newsflash is: New Zealander talks up New Zealand wine's superiority to Australian.

More at 11...

[daz]

There are many cooler climate Aussie shiraz' than just WA and Yarra. The bias is obvious. I bet he wouldn't refuse a free bottle of Grange 86/90/96................well, he does have to sell his opinions to his own market,

He's talking about syrah/shiraz and though I've never tried any from unzud(they seem a bit exxy here), I'm lead to believe some are very good. If he's restricting his opinions to bouquet, he's a dickhead. It may sniff beautifully but it's the gob that is the real arbiter. Most of the goss I've seen of unzud reds is about pinot and syrah. Does cab sauv grow there and achieve physiological ripeness? It's a variety that has a now lengthy history here and does well in our cooler regions as well as some warmer regions in suitable vintages.

Is this bloke trying to tell the world that unzud shiraz is perfect? He's gotta be joking because it's probably the most versatile table wine red grape there is, just pick your favourite style/producer. Unzud simply doesn't have the variety of terrior available in Australia and other parts of the world. To argue it has the best terrior for any style of shiraz other than it's own is pure braggadocio.

daz

[Waiters Friend]

I agree Daz. Someone needs to lose their bias here.

There are certainly big ripe Oz styles, and they have a place. There are also sublime Oz shiraz that would meet (and surpass) what is being talked up as syrah (NZ style).

Let's be blunt. In simple terms, Oz can do the big style, and also produces wines which can give Hermitage (the region) a run for its money. And a few other styles which have other attractions. NZ can only ripen Syrah sufficiently to produce what the author believes to be a superior, more subtle style. Bollocks. Give me Oz Shiraz in its multitude of styles (esp cool climate, as compared to unripe) over Kiwi.

I'll get off the soapbox now.

Allan

[griff]

I has a dig at Australian Shiraz and Syrah there. I think most agree now that there are two styles developing. GK thinks of Shiraz as over ripe for maximum complexity but I think their is a place for Shiraz and it can be just as complex as a Syrah but NOT taking a leaf out of the Rhone book. The second and more subtle dig at cool climate styles in Australia was somewhat contradictory as earlier in the article he describeds examples from WA and Vic as exciting. That lends credence to the idea that there is a barrow that GK is pushing

cheers

Carl

[daz]

I has a dig at Australian Shiraz and Syrah there. I think most agree now that there are two styles developing. GK thinks of Shiraz as over ripe for maximum complexity but I think their is a place for Shiraz and it can be just as complex as a Syrah but NOT taking a leaf out of the Rhone book. The second and more subtle dig at cool climate styles in Australia was somewhat contradictory as earlier in the article he describeds examples from WA and Vic as exciting. That lends credence to the idea that there is a barrow that GK is pushing

cheers

Carl

Carl, I'm not sure what you mean by, "I think most agree now that there are two styles developing." and "... but I think their(sic) is a place for Shiraz and it can be just as complex as a Syrah". Are you saying that wine made from the same variety can be labelled shiraz if they're riper, more fruity wines than a wine from the same variety that is leaner, less ripe? What name should be ascribed to a syrah from a hot Rhone vintage displaying the ripeness of that vintage? As you say, the riper shiraz/syrah wines can be just as complex as cooler climate wines. It's a terroir thing after all and individual preferences for terroir and style vary widely, such is the versatility of the variety. Oh, yeah, the two styles and those in between have been around since long before your and even my umbilical chords were cut.

I'm still a bit nonplussed.

cheers

daz

[orpheus]

I too love a great Mclaren Vale or Barossa shiraz. The 2006 Chapel Hill Vicar was a magnificent wine, partly because it is not over-ripe, jammy, or porty, but it is ripe. It also has great purity of fruit, great finesse, perfect balance, and is opulent.

I also agree that Australia produces great cool-climate shiraz. The Bannockburn is a personal favourite of mine, for instance.

The reds in my cellar are about 90% Australian, most of those are shiraz, and they range across Australian wine-making styles and regions, from Kays (almost too ripe for my taste) to Bannockburn and Yarra Valley (OK, not shiraz from Yarra Valley).

What I wondered in particular (apart from being interested to hear constructive arguments in response to his piece) was what people thought about the "ripeness spectrum of flavours" he has outlined, and in particular, whether complexity on the nose (which tends to follow on the palate, in my experience) is "burnt off" as the grapes ripen to the point of showing predominantly dark berry fruit aromas.

My own suspicion is that it can't quite be reduced in such a neat fashion (attractive though his little chart is). What appears to be totally missing is the input of terroir, and, perhaps, the manner in which the fruit ripens.

His approach seems too prescriptive.

On the other hand, many of us would say that NZ sauvignon blanc, which has taken the world by storm, is not nearly as interesting as its French counterparts, which are much less overtly fruity, and much subtler. I suspect that GK might feel similarly.

He is really talking about style, and arguing that NZ is well placed to compete with the Rhone in the making of syrah. He is urging NZ not to try to ape Australia shiraz, and I think he is right. BTW, he is no enemy of Australia shiraz, he is an enemy of very ripe Australian shiraz. He scores some of it very highly.

I do not think we should be afraid of those who criticise our wines. We will make better wines if we consider such criticism before dismissing it.

By the way, procure a bottle of Craggy Range Le Sol Syrah - I have had the 2002 and 2005. They are astonishingly good, and give context to what GK is saying. I promise you, you would not be disappointed.

I have just come back from NZ where I tasted a number of reds. Too many of them continue to suffer from stalkiness and other under-ripe characteristics. There also a lot of desperately soft reds, with no structure and no acid. There also remains a murder of merlots and merlot-predominant blends. The ones I have tasted have been totally lacking in structure.

Based on the best NZ reds I have had, there is no excuse for this, and both canopy management and winemaking technique are lacking with a number of these wines.

[griff]

I has a dig at Australian Shiraz and Syrah there. I think most agree now that there are two styles developing. GK thinks of Shiraz as over ripe for maximum complexity but I think their is a place for Shiraz and it can be just as complex as a Syrah but NOT taking a leaf out of the Rhone book. The second and more subtle dig at cool climate styles in Australia was somewhat contradictory as earlier in the article he describeds examples from WA and Vic as exciting. That lends credence to the idea that there is a barrow that GK is pushing

cheers

Carl

Carl, I'm not sure what you mean by, "I think most agree now that there are two styles developing." and "... but I think their(sic) is a place for Shiraz and it can be just as complex as a Syrah". Are you saying that wine made from the same variety can be labelled shiraz if they're riper, more fruity wines than a wine from the same variety that is leaner, less ripe? What name should be ascribed to a syrah from a hot Rhone vintage displaying the ripeness of that vintage? As you say, the riper shiraz/syrah wines can be just as complex as cooler climate wines. It's a terroir thing after all and individual preferences for terroir and style vary widely, such is the versatility of the variety. Oh, yeah, the two styles and those in between have been around since long before your and even my umbilical chords were cut.

I'm still a bit nonplussed.

cheers

daz

I was trying to say that that there are two styles being promoted in the marketplace. It is only in the last 5 to 10 years that cool climate Australian shiraz have started to call themselves syrah. Weren't too many Australian wines calling themselves syrah prior to that despite being grown in cooler climate sites. As a whole, apart from a few pioneers, NZ syrah has sprung forth in the last decade or so. Not too many other New World countries are looking significantly at the variety. Maybe South Africa. So New World syrah named wines in general are a relatively new phenomenon.

cheers

Carl

[griff]

He is really talking about style, and arguing that NZ is well placed to compete with the Rhone in the making of syrah. He is urging NZ not to try to ape Australia shiraz, and I think he is right. BTW, he is no enemy of Australia shiraz, he is an enemy of very ripe Australian shiraz. He scores some of it very highly.

GK I think is of the opinion that there are two styles as well. Shiraz and Syrah. Have a look at this quote:

"I made the claim that climatically, shiraz in New Zealand would develop in the French syrah style, not the more common Australian shiraz one."

I think he IS an enemy of Australian shiraz. I think he scores Australian SYRAH styles well but believes the SHIRAZ style to be overripe. I think both styles have a place and are qualitatively equal. I don't need to put one before the other. I feel sorry for him if he can't detect complexity in a good Barossan or McLarenvale shiraz. As for oak I believe that Australian shiraz is not the only culprit of over-oaking in the 90's. I certainly don't think the reason was to "...restore some kind of spurious 'complexity' to bouquets diminished through fruit over-ripeness." Look to the Rhone and you would find a paradigm shift in how many producers used oak from large old oak barrels to new 225L Bordeaux barriques over the same time period. Nor is it an issue restricted to the Shiraz/Syrah variety. Just look at Spain

So, I agree with his conclusion that NZ should look to the Rhone rather than Australia for inspiration but that is based on climate and NOT on Syrah being superior to Shiraz.

cheers

Carl

[odyssey]

On this scale, virtually all Australian shiraz (except some of the exciting wines from Western Australia and cooler Victoria) falls into the boysenberry category, and thus clearly over-ripe.

He may very well have interesting things to say, but gross generalisations bring to mind certain comments like this:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10384&p=78897&hilit=+american#p78897

You could just as easily say that "virtually all" New Zealand sauvignon blanc falls into the overripe passionfruit/tinned asparagus category... gross generalization, but why break from theme?

[orpheus]

On this scale, virtually all Australian shiraz (except some of the exciting wines from Western Australia and cooler Victoria) falls into the boysenberry category, and thus clearly over-ripe.

He may very well have interesting things to say, but gross generalisations bring to mind certain comments like this:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10384&p=78897&hilit=+american#p78897

You could just as easily say that "virtually all" New Zealand sauvignon blanc falls into the overripe passionfruit/tinned asparagus category... gross generalization, but why break from theme?

Well that's precisely my point. I am questioning his "over-ripeness" scale.

I'm inclined to agree with your generalisation about sauvignon blanc, by the way, even if you are simply trying to make a point.

[pstarr]

I think the idea of a single trajectory for shiraz ripening is fundamentally wrong. Even putting aside the diversity of clones of shiraz available for planting, different sites track differently with certain aspects of shiraz wine smells and flavours.

For example, some shiraz vineyards produce peppery smells and flavours, while for others the range of "spice" characteristics may be quite different. The Quarry Hill site, more and more, is showing a mix of raspberry, mulberry, plum, olive and licorice as its distinct character - some years with evident pepper, others less so. There are good shiraz vineyards in other parts of Murrumbateman with distinctly different profiles for their shiraz as it ripens.

I don't mind roughly using red fruits, purple fruits, black fruits as a trajectory for fruit ripeness, but it's too simple to say the whole of how the fruit/wine smells is a single trajectory with a point of clear cutoff.

And as for cassis/black currant as earlier-phase ripeness descriptors for cooler climate shiraz - that does not fit with my experience at all.

[orpheus]

I think the idea of a single trajectory for shiraz ripening is fundamentally wrong. Even putting aside the diversity of clones of shiraz available for planting, different sites track differently with certain aspects of shiraz wine smells and flavours.

For example, some shiraz vineyards produce peppery smells and flavours, while for others the range of "spice" characteristics may be quite different. The Quarry Hill site, more and more, is showing a mix of raspberry, mulberry, plum, olive and licorice as its distinct character - some years with evident pepper, others less so. There are good shiraz vineyards in other parts of Murrumbateman with distinctly different profiles for their shiraz as it ripens.

I don't mind roughly using red fruits, purple fruits, black fruits as a trajectory for fruit ripeness, but it's too simple to say the whole of how the fruit/wine smells is a single trajectory with a point of clear cutoff.

And as for cassis/black currant as earlier-phase ripeness descriptors for cooler climate shiraz - that does not fit with my experience at all.

Yes, that was my suspicion.

Do you agree with his view that complexity gets "burnt off" when shiraz grapes are ripened to the point they are ripened in Australian warm climate wines?

[pstarr]

Do you agree with his view that complexity gets "burnt off" when shiraz grapes are ripened to the point they are ripened in Australian warm climate wines?

To a degree. You will certainly lose some aromatics as the fruit ripens, but you can pick some up as well (at least if you avoid shrivel, stress, defoliation, sunburn, etc). I don't think more ripeness = less complexity is quite right though, especially in places like McLaren Vale and the Barossa, where sometimes certain 'complex'-ing smells don't come along until fruit is pretty ripe (ie some of the 'fruit cake' elements).

That said, I prefer my SA shiraz and grenache wines to show no alcohol heat and avoid too much black fruit and jam character. For cool-climate stuff, I like to see a mix of red fruits and purple fruits, plus spice (of whatever kind). From SA, I'm happy to get more glycerol type textures and like the wines to be mainly about purple fruits rather than black. Dominant blackberry and jam smells and tastes take shiraz too far for me, for table wine.

The other thing I don't see in the single-trajectory argument is any room to take whole bunches into account. I prefer cool-climate shiraz to include some whole bunch characters - often looking to smell and taste some of those sappy stalk/stem characters, and see the impact of whole bunch on tannin, structure and length.

[KMP]

To each his own. I have no problem with Geoff Kelly having an opinion on what is Syrah versus Shiraz in terms of flavor profile; more often than not I learn something new from his online articles, and he certainly has the experience to back it up. The only problem I have is that he is clearly Eurocentric and I think is misled to want NZ to mimic those styles and flavor profiles, but having tasted a few NZ Syrah I have to say that some are excellent and clearly diferent from Oz Shiraz - and that is a good thing; gather a few from Hawkes Bay - the differences between wines from that one region will astound you- you ain't in South Australia anymore.

In terms of the flavor profile of Syrah grapes at different levels of maturity, Kelly's listing is his own. I prerfer the simpler one by Lland and Gago ("Australian Wine, Styles and Tastes", Patrick Lland Wine Promotions, Adelaide, 2002) which for Shiraz is "herbaceous-spicy-raspberry-plum-pepper-blackberry-mulberry-licorice-black olive-jam"

Mike

[Hindmarsh]

Interesting comments about Syrah, though an obvious bias and vested interest to reverse the retail trend towards buying fruit-forward, flavoursome (if highly alcoholic and not so dainty) warm climate Shiraz. The fashion trend is already changing, and his comments are just adding to it. I would argue that regions like the Eden Valley can produce spicy 'cool climate' shiraz and it is the distance of a David Warner 6 from the super warm Barossa Valley floor.

I am happy to have Shiraz and Syrah styles co-exist as I like both depending on my mood!