Storage damage, or faulty cork

[malliemcg]

Greetings,

Of my 8 remaining 2002 St Henri's I have had one of them leak - the photos can be found here http://mallie.smugmug.com/gallery/82698 ... 4137_4Ms4U . [Opened Wednesday night - completely oxidised]

Now I'll be the first to admit that my cellaring conditions are not perfect, but the location they are stored is stable in temperature, about 60% rel. humidity. It does have a fairly large swing in temperature winter to summer - (14C winter, 24C summer) with no more than a 1C temp change over a week. (As measured near the door - the wine is surrounded by empty boxes for insulation).

I checked the remaining 8 bottles and none of them are suffering from this kind of damage from the outside, and have recently opened a bottle that has been stored in this conditions longer than the St Henri (a 2001 Chapel Hill - The Vicar). I have decanted one of the remaining 8 "good" bottles for consumption later today, and as at 30 minutes ago was smelling divine - fruit is all there etc a small tasting sample shows it's currently fine and will likely handle another 4 hours + decant time without falling apart.

Now while I'll admit the cellar is not perfect, the stable and slow moving temperatures have got to be more important than the peak which is really not that high. Sure it'll cut many years off the cellaring potential of a wine, but will still enable 5 or so safely. Is this the fault of my storage, or the bottle itself?

[griff]

Welcome to the wonderful world of cork

If your peak is 24 and temperature fluctuation less than a couple of degrees a day then the environment isn't responsible for leaking corks. You are right that it advances development but that doesn't explain the leaking. If the cork is leaking then the liquid must be replaced by air so oxidation of the wine is hastened.

Good luck getting anything from Foster's though!

cheers

Carl

[Roscoe]

Agree with griff- not a storage issue. I have similar conditions and have successfully cellared wines above 20 years.

[Michael McNally]

Surely if this was the result of the conditions in which they were stored, then all 8 would be affected to some degree? Sounds like an individual (poor/stuffed) cork.

My condolences. Enjoy the "live" one!

Michael

[Red Bigot]

Definitely the cork. I've had many 10-12yo and even older red wines from several Canberra passive cellars and the results have been overwhelmingly good.
Re Fosters, they do seem to cope Ok with obvious TCA, I've recently had a corked 99 Annies Lane Coppertrail Shiraz replaced with a 2005 and a bonus 2002 GSM and today I'm sending back a Michael Shiraz 91 in their reply-paid box, with the crumbled tainted cork in a Glad-Bag.

Send them a link to this thread and the post on your blog.

[malliemcg]

Thanks for the response. I figured that max change of 1C over a week - no nightly swing per se that storage was pretty good w/out going for a full blown cellar. To me a fridge bothers me more than what I have today. I was rather angry at just being blown off and the tripe the person on the other end of the phone was spouting at me.

St Henri used to be one of my favourite wines, but for the forseeable future I'll not be buying any more Penfolds. I'll also not freak so much about my "cellar" and trust my palate and the results of stuff that's been stored there.

I'll see what they have to say w/ a further email to 'em but based on their current care factor... I just feel ugh, flat

M

[griff]

Definitely the cork. I've had many 10-12yo and even older red wines from several Canberra passive cellars and the results have been overwhelmingly good.
Re Fosters, they do seem to cope Ok with obvious TCA, I've recently had a corked 99 Annies Lane Coppertrail Shiraz replaced with a 2005 and a bonus 2002 GSM and today I'm sending back a Michael Shiraz 91 in their reply-paid box, with the crumbled tainted cork in a Glad-Bag.

Send them a link to this thread and the post on your blog.

Better luck than me! Good for you!

cheers

Carl

[n4sir]

Agree with the comments here - if the others are fine there's simply nothing else but the cork to blame.

I suggest you either take it up with the place of purchase (if possible) or contact Penfolds customer service (1300 651 650) to try and get a replacement (probably current vintage being the 2005). The process may be a pain in the butt to go through and you may need to send the cork and remains of the faulty bottle, but I think you have a pretty solid case to argue.

Thanks for the response. I figured that max change of 1C over a week - no nightly swing per se that storage was pretty good w/out going for a full blown cellar. To me a fridge bothers me more than what I have today. I was rather angry at just being blown off and the tripe the person on the other end of the phone was spouting at me.

St Henri used to be one of my favourite wines, but for the forseeable future I'll not be buying any more Penfolds. I'll also not freak so much about my "cellar" and trust my palate and the results of stuff that's been stored there.

I'll see what they have to say w/ a further email to 'em but based on their current care factor... I just feel ugh, flat

M

Just saw this bit after I posted my reply - I'm guessing you've already contacted them. Keep persisting, and as Brian has said include a link to this thread and your blog - I'm amazed some of those idiots at customer service still have the same crap attitude after the huge blow-up last year with Murray's '86 Grange.

Cheers,
Ian

[malliemcg]

Well to be fair - I must post that Penfolds have given me a call about half an hour ago (mid back massage) and were most courteous this time around. They're sending a specimen jar for the cork, I've kept the bottle for them, but they're currently saying that it may be not of much use due to time when the sendy back bit will arrive.

EDIT: Tasting Note

Even after 6 hours decanting time this wine is still very tight and closed up. The nose is fragrant savoury smells along with liquorice, some dark berry - I've smelt this before but am unsure what is it. A dash of clove.

On the palate - there is fruit right up on the front, giving way to smooth grippy tannins at the back end. Some spiciness + pepper also. Excellent long mouthfeel. I can't help but feel this was some vinfanticide opening it up now, but it at least lets me know this one has some time to go yet. The fruit and wood characteristics are becoming nicely integrated compared to 15 months ago when I last cracked a bottle of this. A little dry dustyness too. Fantastic mouthfeel. Loving every taste of this, a pity the bottle was shared w/ 4 people.

[John #11]

Its definitely the cork.

I've had 2 bottles of the 2002 St Henri leak, while in my wine fridge. Had to drink them very early

[Partagas]

Thanks for the response. I figured that max change of 1C over a week - no nightly swing per se that storage was pretty good w/out going for a full blown cellar. To me a fridge bothers me more than what I have today. I was rather angry at just being blown off and the tripe the person on the other end of the phone was spouting at me.

St Henri used to be one of my favourite wines, but for the forseeable future I'll not be buying any more Penfolds. I'll also not freak so much about my "cellar" and trust my palate and the results of stuff that's been stored there.

I'll see what they have to say w/ a further email to 'em but based on their current care factor... I just feel ugh, flat

M

Yep that’s my experience with the same wine, only mine was a Magnum. They treated me like an 18 year old wine novice who just picked a random bottle from his dad’s cellar. Should have seen how condescending the email was, maybe they don’t know that naive young teenagers don’t tend to buy $150 magnums of wine. The blame was immediately me, no sorry, commiserations or professional understanding, just very basic explanations of how extreme temperatures can cause wine to leak. Didn’t ask me or assume that it was stored correctly, just semi politely telling me to shove it. They even had the balls to say there was no complaints or history of the 2002 St Henri having cork issues. I then sent them a link to this forum where some complaints were and funny enough have not heard back since. Months later sent another email and nothing again.

Brain, they are obviously treating you a little better than most. Happy for you but wish they treated all customers the same.

Sam

[griff]

Thanks for the response. I figured that max change of 1C over a week - no nightly swing per se that storage was pretty good w/out going for a full blown cellar. To me a fridge bothers me more than what I have today. I was rather angry at just being blown off and the tripe the person on the other end of the phone was spouting at me.

St Henri used to be one of my favourite wines, but for the forseeable future I'll not be buying any more Penfolds. I'll also not freak so much about my "cellar" and trust my palate and the results of stuff that's been stored there.

I'll see what they have to say w/ a further email to 'em but based on their current care factor... I just feel ugh, flat

M

Yep that’s my experience with the same wine, only mine was a Magnum. They treated me like an 18 year old wine novice who just picked a random bottle from his dad’s cellar. Should have seen how condescending the email was, maybe they don’t know that naive young teenagers don’t tend to buy $150 magnums of wine. The blame was immediately me, no sorry, commiserations or professional understanding, just very basic explanations of how extreme temperatures can cause wine to leak. Didn’t ask me or assume that it was stored correctly, just semi politely telling me to shove it. They even had the balls to say there was no complaints or history of the 2002 St Henri having cork issues. I then sent them a link to this forum where some complaints were and funny enough have not heard back since. Months later sent another email and nothing again.

Brain, they are obviously treating you a little better than most. Happy for you but wish they treated all customers the same.

Sam

Judging by the posts in this and prior threads (both here and the other house) there seems to be different levels of customer service.

Non-appellation: A response saying you are wrong and then no response thereafter.

Appellation: You are wrong along with a different (lower grade) wine as compensation for the trouble.

Villages: Replacement with current vintage.

Premier Cru: Replacement with current vintage along with a different (lower grade) wine as compensation for the trouble.

Grand Cru: Replacement with current vintage with a personal visit by Peter Gago.


I recently graduated to Villages level

Murray managed to get to Grand Cru after a lot of (strongly worded) communication so keep trying Partagas

cheers

Carl

[Red Bigot]

Brian, they are obviously treating you a little better than most. Happy for you but wish they treated all customers the same.

Sam

Well, my cases were pretty obvious TCA, bad enough to not be hidden by any oxidation. I don't use my Red Bigot email for any of this sort of stuff, so it's not special treatment due to my site.

I usually deal with the retailer/e-tailer for more recent purchases. I keep all my purchase receipts for about 5 years and last year took a corked bottle back to DM with a receipt dated some years before and quickly received a current vintage of the wine (and some amazed looks).

[dazza1968]

Hello everyone , One advantage of a cork you do get a sneak preview of whether a bottle of wine has been cared for or not . Screw caps dont have this advantage.

P.S I am not a supporter of corks

Regards Dazza

[malliemcg]

Thought that I should report back to be fair to the company in question.

It seems that they were able to see the obvious as the nose on the face of an Asterix character the growth lines on the cork.

Replacement bottle on it's way to me. (Line was bad - I assume current Vintage). Feels like a hell of a fight, I might not be "enjoying" a Penfold's label for a while... perhaps when/if Fosters sell 'em things will be better.

[Daryl Douglas]

Its definitely the cork.

I've had 2 bottles of the 2002 St Henri leak, while in my wine fridge. Had to drink them very early

Shite! I've only 2 bottles of it in a wine cooler, need to check 'em soon.

[Wayno]

Such is the bottle lottery of life. My 02 St Henri's, all 6 are in pristine cork condition. Hope the contents are the same.

[Daryl Douglas]

Such is the bottle lottery of life. My 02 St Henri's, all 6 are in pristine cork condition. Hope the contents are the same.

Perhaps you should open one and report your opinion of it's contents

Cheers

daz

[dazza1968]

AFter reading about the corks on the 02 St Henri maybe i should check the contents inside the box !!!

Regards Dazza

[Wayno]

Such is the bottle lottery of life. My 02 St Henri's, all 6 are in pristine cork condition. Hope the contents are the same.

Perhaps you should open one and report your opinion of it's contents

Cheers

daz

Perhaps I should. There's a thought.

[n4sir]

Thought that I should report back to be fair to the company in question.

It seems that they were able to see the obvious as the nose on the face of an Asterix character the growth lines on the cork.

Replacement bottle on it's way to me. (Line was bad - I assume current Vintage). Feels like a hell of a fight, I might not be "enjoying" a Penfold's label for a while... perhaps when/if Fosters sell 'em things will be better.

Overall that's about the best service you can expect from a big corporate winery, and in the end Penfolds should be applauded for this action. By the description of the cork it sounds like it's possibly been pinched during the insertion process (resulting in a gutter down the side of the cork to allow leakage and oxygen in). For them to recognise this and arrange a replacement (even if it's only the current vintage) should be seen as very satisfactory.

Yep that’s my experience with the same wine, only mine was a Magnum. They treated me like an 18 year old wine novice who just picked a random bottle from his dad’s cellar. Should have seen how condescending the email was, maybe they don’t know that naive young teenagers don’t tend to buy $150 magnums of wine. The blame was immediately me, no sorry, commiserations or professional understanding, just very basic explanations of how extreme temperatures can cause wine to leak. Didn’t ask me or assume that it was stored correctly, just semi politely telling me to shove it. They even had the balls to say there was no complaints or history of the 2002 St Henri having cork issues. I then sent them a link to this forum where some complaints were and funny enough have not heard back since. Months later sent another email and nothing again.

Sam, you really should have taken my advice and booked an appointment at the Penfolds Perth wine clinic last year to get the magnum checked by the winemakers when you had the chance. I realise people are human, busy and forget things, but I'm not sure what else you can expect if the bottle hasn't been opened, and you're only talking to the knuckleheads of Foster's customer relations at the other end of the phone. Pack the top of the capsule in bubble wrap and bury it in the coolest part of the cellar until the clinics come up again (probably next year) and this time make absolutely sure you book an appointment.

Cheers,
Ian

[Red Bigot]

Received a 2004 Michael and 2006 Coonawarra Shiraz as replacements for the corked 91 Michael I sent back a week or 2 ago.
At least we have the laws in place in this country to support replacement of faulty wines, it's time some other countries caught up.

[David Bryant]

Not that I would look at a cork posting but ........

Useful photos. There is a clear crease up the length of the cork where the leak is, so that is the problem. I would recommend to Penfolds use of hand selection corks but somehow I suspect their volumes dont cater to it?

Cheers
David

[Gary W]

. I would recommend to Penfolds use of hand selection corks but somehow I suspect their volumes dont cater to it?

Cheers
David

St Henri available under screwcap now. Problem solved.
GW

[Red Bigot]

. I would recommend to Penfolds use of hand selection corks but somehow I suspect their volumes dont cater to it?

Cheers
David

St Henri available under screwcap now. Problem solved.
GW

Yeah, the 2004 Michael and 2006 Wynns Shiraz are both under scewcap, as were the two replacements for the corked 99 Coppertrail Shiraz.

[malliemcg]

Useful photos. There is a clear crease up the length of the cork where the leak is, so that is the problem. I would recommend to Penfolds use of hand selection corks but somehow I suspect their volumes dont cater to it?

I was most relieved to see the replacement (05) St Henri was under screw cap and surprised to see a 407 (06) sitting in the package next to it. Based on the stuff I have been drinking of late that would be similar price per bottle (WW RSW ; The Vicar) and Stuff Cheaper (Wolf Blass Grey Label) that have had corks that "feel" twice as good (if not better) than the St Henri jobbies - everything else we've consumed of late, under cork (excl. the French stuff who's corks have been crapola) has just felt better/tighter/higher quality than the stuff Penfolds used in 2002 and exhibited less staining up the length of the cork - how many bottles would not leak if a decent cork was used?

At this moment in time, I'm a fan of the Screw Cap. However - I've not had a collection (cellar) long enough with wines that age long enough to really comment fully - I have read some of those studies that have been done and look forward to seeing how this evolves - I've not really (knowingly) experienced a reduced wine of late - and tend to decant most of even my young stuff to get the air into it. Time will tell, and for now, I'm a happy chappy.

[Partagas]

. I would recommend to Penfolds use of hand selection corks but somehow I suspect their volumes dont cater to it?

Cheers
David

St Henri available under screwcap now. Problem solved.
GW

Unfortunately Gary I have 5 bottles of 04 all under cork still. It was a deal too good to miss and reckon the reason behind this retail juggernaut pricing it so cheap was because it was under cork and they were finding it difficult to sell compared to screwcap. A single reason behind having any under cork when market is obviously calling for screwcap??????? Better having some than none though just hope they are in better nick than 02’s.

[n4sir]

. I would recommend to Penfolds use of hand selection corks but somehow I suspect their volumes dont cater to it?

Cheers
David

St Henri available under screwcap now. Problem solved.
GW

Unfortunately Gary I have 5 bottles of 04 all under cork still. It was a deal too good to miss and reckon the reason behind this retail juggernaut pricing it so cheap was because it was under cork and they were finding it difficult to sell compared to screwcap. A single reason behind having any under cork when market is obviously calling for screwcap??????? Better having some than none though just hope they are in better nick than 02’s.

I don't think I've seen any of the '04s that weren't under cork, so I wouldn't feel too hard done by Sam. To my knowledge '05 was the first St. Henri under something other than a piece of dodgy bark - the big question is will be when will Grange be under a closure with a more acceptable failure rate?

cheers,
Ian

[Partagas]

Thanks Ian I just read your post on the clinic. Yes you are 100% right and I will book it in this year

[Gary W]

Yes. That's right 2005 the first commercial release under screwcap. It's strange that 707 is available under screwcap now. It's as cellarworthy as Grange pretty much and I'd say cabernet, if anything is at all, the least suitable variety for screwcap.

GW