Unicorn wines of the future..

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Wayno
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Wayno »

I took this to mean wines that wouldn’t necessarily have been expected to last for decades and go on to shine... but did.
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Mahmoud Ali
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Mahmoud Ali »

The 1963 Mildara Cabernet may well have been made in relatively large quantities but would it be fair to say it's iconic reputation was established when most bottles had already been consumed.

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Mahmoud Ali »

Wayno wrote:I took this to mean wines that wouldn’t necessarily have been expected to last for decades and go on to shine... but did.
Agreed.

felixp21
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by felixp21 »

Mahmoud Ali wrote:The 1963 Mildara Cabernet may well have been made in relatively large quantities but would it be fair to say it's iconic reputation was established when most bottles had already been consumed.
.... not at all. There was a period of maybe 2-3 months where the wine was released with good reviews, but after that, it was an absolute bun fight to get the wine. This story related to me by my father.... on advice from a mate at Tahbilk, he purchased 6 cases right at release, six months later when he tried to get more, it was impossible, with the price more than 5 times that at release. Just about every wine lover in Australia knew this was a freak wine within a year of release.

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by felixp21 »

In addition, the call of "unicorn" wine is really about the fact that this particular wine is not only legendary, but it is indeed one of a kind, with no other Aussie wine really bearing any resemblance to it. In addition, it is a freak in that the same maker and vineyard has been unable to come within a million miles of it's quality in any subsequent vintage, and as you can see, there have been a few!!!!
I'm not sure I've had any wine quite like the PP, though I have had a few that vaguely remind me of it (although all those have been French)
If you want an idea of how incredible it is, try a bottle of the 06 Vieux Chateau Certan, it has that wonderful "deep mint" palate that the PP has, although it is not in the same league (mind you, it is a very, very smart wine!!!)

Theporkrail
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Theporkrail »

Great post this, have just had a great half hours reading, couple of my thoughts

Some of the early Sami Odi wines are already unicorns, and I think will continue to be so, also several of the 2014 single site Hunter wines such as 4 acres, 1965 Vines Rosehill, etc will certainly be in contention. Also Standish "The Standish" 2012 is to me the epitome of this discussion, grapes from a vineyard he only got once (although he may have access to it again with the Lamella in recent years), just a one off of a wine that is just a level above the outstanding.

Sometimes I think these unicorn wines show up though from unlauded vintages too where something just goes right but no one expects it, no one keeps too many, and then magically the wine transforms to to a myth

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Ian S »

michel wrote:
I was given a bottle of this as a gift for being best man at a wedding
it was a cracker
I even purchased another bottle from the old Prince Wine Store in Melbourne out of the glass cupboard.
and there in is the question - I have never had an exciting pinot from these guys since.
the Marie Zelie was not my cup of tea .........
and I'm guessing you might know the answer to the question - the departure of Larry McKenna as winemaker directly after this vintage, later to re-appear with his own winery Escarpment.

FWIW nothing I've tasted from Escarpment approaches the structure of the old Martinborough reserve Pinot Noirs, and arguably that's a sensible commercial approach. Not everyone has faith (or understanding) to work out that such wines need to lay down for a decade or two (or three). I always found myself drawn to the 'tightly coiled springs', as cellaring is an important part of the hobby to me. I enjoy being patient and dislike wines being dumbed down in the quest for approachability.

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by JamieBahrain »

Great yarn again about PP Felix. I find it fascinating to hear of an era in the Australian wine industry long past from a drinkers perspective .

Craig I’ve followed you on 98 Coleraine for years and thanks for the update . Still have 10 I think . All bought ex-winery and cellared professionally . Not exactly a scarce wine though possibly not replicated either. Looking forward to trying another soon.
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by mychurch »

Ah...Martinbourgh Reserve Pinot.

I still remember the 1991 - the first (only?) Pinot I truely fell in love with.

I went to a New Zealand tasting at the Melbourne Wine House a few months ago and they had the 2nd wine as part of the tasting. Turned out nobody at the tasting had ever had a Martinbough Pinot before...amazing considering how highly it was thought of at the start of the 90’s - it was on the list of some very famous restaurants in the UK then.
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Rossco »

Mike Hawkins wrote:
felixp21 wrote:
GraemeG wrote: I liked the 09, but thought the 01 was average, and the 99 weak. The heralded 95 I wasn't impressed with either. The Cullen DM is rather an unclothed emperor for me.
Graeme
post of the year. thank God someone else feels the same. I have a mountain of undrunk Cullen from the 90's and a few from the early 00's. Probably close to 100 in all, none of it any good. Boring rubbish. I like the guys from Winefront, but occasionally their calls mystify me, with Cullens on top of the list.
I’ve been saying the same about Cullen for 10 years. It peaks at release..
Well im glad its not just me then!

rooman
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by rooman »

Rossco wrote:
Mike Hawkins wrote:
felixp21 wrote:
post of the year. thank God someone else feels the same. I have a mountain of undrunk Cullen from the 90's and a few from the early 00's. Probably close to 100 in all, none of it any good. Boring rubbish. I like the guys from Winefront, but occasionally their calls mystify me, with Cullens on top of the list.
I’ve been saying the same about Cullen for 10 years. It peaks at release..
Well im glad its not just me then!
Has anyone tried the 05? I have a case buried in the cellar which I wasn't really thinking of opening for another 5 years or so given its a birth year wine. This discussion however is making me nervous. Anyone tried it?

mark

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phillisc
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by phillisc »

As I was riding in this morning and being half way through the cellar relocation, there's going to be a lot of wine that is butchered just to 'find' a few unicorns.
I have a number of vintages of a number of top Australian marques in sealed cartons, that are 15-25 years old. Madness yes, poor cellar record keeping absolutely, considerations at 20 years still too early to drink, yes, or just pure speculation or why the hell did I buy that...probably.

So is it worthwhile to just 'forget' about these boxes and hope or consider that 1-2 of them will be unicorns...or what is far more likely that I will never drink them and get a few bob on the secondary market? I see plenty of current evidence of this from three auction houses "1990 wine x 12 bottles from an unopened/original carton"

Just a thought
Cheers
Craig
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michel
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by michel »

Ian S wrote:
michel wrote:
I was given a bottle of this as a gift for being best man at a wedding
it was a cracker
I even purchased another bottle from the old Prince Wine Store in Melbourne out of the glass cupboard.
and there in is the question - I have never had an exciting pinot from these guys since.
the Marie Zelie was not my cup of tea .........
and I'm guessing you might know the answer to the question - the departure of Larry McKenna as winemaker directly after this vintage, later to re-appear with his own winery Escarpment.

FWIW nothing I've tasted from Escarpment approaches the structure of the old Martinborough reserve Pinot Noirs, and arguably that's a sensible commercial approach. Not everyone has faith (or understanding) to work out that such wines need to lay down for a decade or two (or three). I always found myself drawn to the 'tightly coiled springs', as cellaring is an important part of the hobby to me. I enjoy being patient and dislike wines being dumbed down in the quest for approachability.
I forgot Larry was the maker :idea:
Thanks Ian
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Ian S
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Ian S »

phillisc wrote:As I was riding in this morning and being half way through the cellar relocation, there's going to be a lot of wine that is butchered just to 'find' a few unicorns.
I have a number of vintages of a number of top Australian marques in sealed cartons, that are 15-25 years old. Madness yes, poor cellar record keeping absolutely, considerations at 20 years still too early to drink, yes, or just pure speculation or why the hell did I buy that...probably.

So is it worthwhile to just 'forget' about these boxes and hope or consider that 1-2 of them will be unicorns...or what is far more likely that I will never drink them and get a few bob on the secondary market? I see plenty of current evidence of this from three auction houses "1990 wine x 12 bottles from an unopened/original carton"

Just a thought
Cheers
Craig
As Sean Kelly would say - "That's an interesting one". For me the answer is in your preference for young, semi-mature, mature, over-mature wines. If the thought of over-mature doesn't put you off trying, then start sampling. If you can't stomach a wine that has a little oxidation (even if that comes with a bit more delicate complexity), then start a rigorous sort out, with those at risk of that going off to auction in search of buyers who have more of an appetite for it.

Plenty of people bough wine for investment (or at least an each way bet of drink or sell). Plenty other just bought and bought and bought, and in the end couldn't access the older wines at the bottom of their storage.

I'm sure there will be the odd unicorn, plenty of disappointments and plenty of surprising successes, plus a core of wines delivering what you'd expect.

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Matt@5453 »

JamieBahrain wrote: Craig I’ve followed you on 98 Coleraine for years and thanks for the update . Still have 10 I think . All bought ex-winery and cellared professionally . Not exactly a scarce wine though possibly not replicated either. Looking forward to trying another soon.
brief comments from a wine writer on a recent tasting:

My favourites? The 2015, 2014, 1998 and 2008 all achieved 97 points; the 2016, 2013, 2005 and 1991 all rated 96 points; the 2002 and 1985 rated 95 points, and the 2007, 1999 and 1982 rated 94.

Only nine of the 32 vintages rated below 89, and of these only three were past drinking: 1987, 2011 and 1984, all due to lesser seasons.

So, 23 vintages rated 90 or higher, which is quite outstanding.

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Ian S »

Can't be Halliday or Suckling - the scores are too low. :P :wink:

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by mjs »

phillisc wrote:As I was riding in this morning and being half way through the cellar relocation, there's going to be a lot of wine that is butchered just to 'find' a few unicorns.
I have a number of vintages of a number of top Australian marques in sealed cartons, that are 15-25 years old. Madness yes, poor cellar record keeping absolutely, considerations at 20 years still too early to drink, yes, or just pure speculation or why the hell did I buy that...probably.

So is it worthwhile to just 'forget' about these boxes and hope or consider that 1-2 of them will be unicorns...or what is far more likely that I will never drink them and get a few bob on the secondary market? I see plenty of current evidence of this from three auction houses "1990 wine x 12 bottles from an unopened/original carton"

Just a thought
Cheers
Craig
Craig, ask me around when I’m next in Adelaide and we can make a start opening some of those boxes in search of unicorns :lol: :lol:
Cheers, Malcolm
Last edited by mjs on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mjs
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by mjs »

Great thread, with lots of interesting discussion and input. Probably only natural that there is a broad view on what constitutes a "unicorn" wine, some great inputs from Ozzie and Mahmoud in that respect. Many of the wines listed as possibles at the moment are "normal" wines, ie just a particular vintage in a line of vintages. Are they or will they become unicorn wines? Perhaps time will tell. If we go back to TiggerK's original post, some of the older usual suspects that he quoted that are well and truly "unicorns" were just next years release of wines that were being made at the time. Maybe they were freaks in some way, that have certainly all attracted legendary status and the longevity, heritage and bucket list factors that Ozzie mentioned.

I can illustrate this by going back to a tasting held in the Dining Rooms at the G in Melbourne in 1998 for the best masterclass exposition of many of those older unicorn wines that I have had the pleasure of experiencing. It was part of the Coonawarra Cabernet celebrations, with this event actually being held in Melbourne, rather than Coonawarra. I guess it was the heritage behind the current Cab Celebration masterclasses (this year's is on Oct 13 btw). There were about 50-60ppl as I recall, I was there with a couple of mates and my father-in-law. Anyway, Pete Bissell curated the wines, and he must have sourced at least three bottles of each wine. MC was Huon Hooke and other panellists were Greg Clayfield and Eric Brand. There were 10 wines in front of each of us and these were:

1955 Woodley's Treasure Chest Claret
1956 Woodley's Treasure Chest Claret
1959 Wynns Coonawarra Estate Cabernet Sauvignon
1959 Rough Homme Cabernet Sauvignon
1962 Penfolds Bin 60A
1963 Mildara Cabernet Sauvignon "Peppermint Pattie"
1965 Wynns Coonawarra Estate Cabernet Sauvignon
1967 Penfolds Bin 7 Cabernet Shiraz
1980 Leconfield Cabernet Sauvignon
1990 Wyyns John Riddoch Cabernet Sauvignon
(this was supposed to be '82 but some one left the bottles in SA)

Eric brand was great, he was able to talk to the wines and recall and say things like "yes, 1959 is was a cool vintage, long ripening" or whatever, just great stuff. To say that these wines were gobsmackingly great, is the understatement of the year. (OK, the JR probably wasn't there at the time). Definitely unicorns with one common factor about the wines for me, tasting the wines was enough in itself, but you could just sit there for an hour after the wine was gone and just savour and enjoy the lingering bouquet in the glass, extraordinary!

So these wines are well out of TiggerK's timeframe for this thread but they illustrate what could occur. Wines that are normal releases (the Woodley's, Wynns, Rouge Homme and Mildara) were being produced year on end. They were very high quality wines but for some reason, they were freaks. Were they made in quantity - probably, but there are rare as rocking horse sh!t now. Even the 60A was made in quantity, I think there is a story in "Rewards of Patience" of Len Evans relieving Max Schubert of 12 cases or more at the time for less than $2/b :mrgreen:

The defining "unicorn" traits things for me are rarity, longevity and bucket-list, pretty much as Ozzie said. So, they have to have to perform with some age under the belt before they get only list, maybe >25yrs. I was lucky enough to taste the '59 Rouge Home a couple of years ago in Coonawarra in another masterclass and it was still in outstanding nick. I have to confess that I do tend towards cabernet or cabernet dominant wines on this list for me, although having said that, grb2001 generously provided an '87 Grange for some birthday drinks recently which was absolutely outstanding, so I am not totally shiraz averse :lol: :lol:

N4sir also generously provided a '98 Ch Reynell Cabernet at on off-line in Melbourne recently. That wine should go on anyone's unicorn list, it was outstanding, with years ahead of it. '82 John Riddoch and '91 Centenary are probably already on the list, but they outside of TiggerK's timeframe. So, I guess I continue to come back to a couple of Penfolds special bin wines. Not made in huge quantities, already not that easy to source. very high quality age-able wine, price being the only downside

'96 Penfolds Block42 Kalmina Cabernet Sauvignon (Australia's oldest cabernet grapes, which go into '707 in normal years, so some heritage and X-factor mentioned by Ozzie). Jamie mentioned en magnum earlier, there was a magnum of this Block42 on the bench as part of drinks for a significant birthday a few years ago (along with a magnum of Centenary btw). It was outstanding, albeit just still in the "vinfanticide" age, and I would definitely agree with Jamie's view on the benefits of large format.
'04 Penfolds Bin 60A Kalimna Shiraz Coonawarra Cabernet
'04 Penfolds Block42 Kalimna Cabernet
(of Ampoule fame)
‘10 Penfolds Bin169 Coonawarra Cabernet (French oak cf American in the Block
42, so a little more elegant)

I would be a happy man if I had quantities of these, Craig are you paying attention? :lol: :lol:

Having said that, there has been an incredibly wide range of very well made wines produced in Australasia over the last ten years, so it will be interesting to see how some of these wines, including those that people have listed in previous posts, perform over the next ten years and more. I trust we can all enjoy them. :D :D
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phillisc
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by phillisc »

Malcolm, don't have any of the Pennies :oops: :oops: was on a list at a bottle shop in Adelaide to purchase 3 each of the 04s but never eventuated. Funny they are not that more expensive now 10 years on.

I have tried the 65 Wynns, birth year, and 3 of the Woodleys. Plenty of Mildara's from the 80s, but nothing earlier
I have never seen the 59 RH, but brought heaps of the yellow label RH cabs and the white label Claret, blend ( shiraz/cab/merlot).1980 vintage is an amazing wine...tinned peas every time. A bottle shop in Geelong advertised the 78 RH Cab about 20 years ago in The Age Tuesday Epicurean section, which was at the time the bible for anybody buying wine in Australia for $15 a bottle...a 20 year old red for $15!!! A proprietor here in Adelaide brought the whole allocation of approx. 20 dozen and my mother and I brought 2 dozen each...beautiful wine...sadly all gone.

Any unicorns I have will come from current stocks that are largely post 1990.
Cheers
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phillisc
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by phillisc »

mjs wrote:
phillisc wrote:As I was riding in this morning and being half way through the cellar relocation, there's going to be a lot of wine that is butchered just to 'find' a few unicorns.
I have a number of vintages of a number of top Australian marques in sealed cartons, that are 15-25 years old. Madness yes, poor cellar record keeping absolutely, considerations at 20 years still too early to drink, yes, or just pure speculation or why the hell did I buy that...probably.

So is it worthwhile to just 'forget' about these boxes and hope or consider that 1-2 of them will be unicorns...or what is far more likely that I will never drink them and get a few bob on the secondary market? I see plenty of current evidence of this from three auction houses "1990 wine x 12 bottles from an unopened/original carton"

Just a thought
Cheers
Craig
Craig, ask me around when I’m next in Adelaide and we can make a start opening some of those boxes in search of unicorns :lol: :lol:
Cheers, Malcolm
Certainly Malcolm...can do :wink:
Cheers craig
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Craig(NZ) »

Matt@5453 wrote:
JamieBahrain wrote: Craig I’ve followed you on 98 Coleraine for years and thanks for the update . Still have 10 I think . All bought ex-winery and cellared professionally . Not exactly a scarce wine though possibly not replicated either. Looking forward to trying another soon.
brief comments from a wine writer on a recent tasting:

My favourites? The 2015, 2014, 1998 and 2008 all achieved 97 points; the 2016, 2013, 2005 and 1991 all rated 96 points; the 2002 and 1985 rated 95 points, and the 2007, 1999 and 1982 rated 94.

Only nine of the 32 vintages rated below 89, and of these only three were past drinking: 1987, 2011 and 1984, all due to lesser seasons.

So, 23 vintages rated 90 or higher, which is quite outstanding.
Of the ones I have tried my rankings from decades of drinking the stuff would be:

Top Rank = 1991, 1998, 2005, 2009, (provisionally 2013, 2014, 2015)
Second Rank = 1995, 2007, 2016
Third Rank = 1989, 1990, 1994, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010
Fourth Rank = 1985, 1987, 2001, 2003, 2011
Not Made = 1992, 1993, 2012
Not tried = (Supposed to be excellent 1982, 1983), Supposed to be poor (1984, 1986, 1988)

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Craig(NZ) »

mjs wrote:
'96 Penfolds Block42 Kalmina Cabernet Sauvignon (Australia's oldest cabernet grapes, which go into '707 in normal years, so some heritage and X-factor mentioned by Ozzie). Jamie mentioned en magnum earlier, there was a magnum of this Block42 on the bench as part of drinks for a significant birthday a few years ago (along with a magnum of Centenary btw). It was outstanding, albeit just still in the "vinfanticide" age, and I would definitely agree with Jamie's view on the benefits of large format.
I was told on release 42 bottles of this came into NZ. Managed to grab one of them

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Craig(NZ) »

Craig(NZ) wrote:
Matt@5453 wrote:
JamieBahrain wrote: Craig I’ve followed you on 98 Coleraine for years and thanks for the update . Still have 10 I think . All bought ex-winery and cellared professionally . Not exactly a scarce wine though possibly not replicated either. Looking forward to trying another soon.
brief comments from a wine writer on a recent tasting:

My favourites? The 2015, 2014, 1998 and 2008 all achieved 97 points; the 2016, 2013, 2005 and 1991 all rated 96 points; the 2002 and 1985 rated 95 points, and the 2007, 1999 and 1982 rated 94.

Only nine of the 32 vintages rated below 89, and of these only three were past drinking: 1987, 2011 and 1984, all due to lesser seasons.

So, 23 vintages rated 90 or higher, which is quite outstanding.
Of the ones I have tried my rankings from decades of drinking the stuff would be:

Top Rank = 1991, 1998, 2005, 2009, (provisionally 2013, 2014, 2015)
Second Rank = 1995, 2007, 2016
Third Rank = 1989, 1990, 1994, 2000, 2002, 2008, 2010
Fourth Rank = 1985, 1987, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2011
Not Made = 1992, 1993, 2012
Not tried = (Supposed to be excellent 1982, 1983), Supposed to be poor (1984, 1986, 1988)

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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Gary W »

On Coleraine -

Te Mata Estate Coleraine Vertical at Rockpool Bar & Grill – August 2018

A wine that pretty much needs no introduction, and for me, probably New Zealand’s greatest red wine. It was also a (unexpected) pleasure to have Campbell sitting alongside me for the tasting, so maybe he’ll chime in with his thoughts. This was a complete vertical of all Coleraine produced to date, with wines purchased as a set at auction by Air New Zealand, and presented as part of their fine wine program. A world first, I believe. Hats off.

1982 – Autumnal, some charred stick bottle age stuff, blackcurrant and cigar box., and a lovely perfume of flowers. Mid-weight at best, holding sweet raspberry and blackcurrant, tannin is fine and refined, almost chocolate on the finish, which is very fine. Wonderful. Classic. All of that. Beautiful now, but still no hurry. 95 points

1983 – Beefy, a bit blocky and tannic, raspberry and bonox, drying out a bit, with a bloody finish that’s grippy, but holding bold fruit. It’s ok. It’s not cohesive, but not bad in itself. 90 points

1984 – Some mulchy vegetal stuff, drying, beefy, and not so much charm, though it’s a drink. 87 points

1985 -A little smoky, darker fruit, almost into liquorice, tannin has grip and grain, and while it’s a bit blocky and developed, it has a pleasing sense of earth/mineral stuff. Finish is tannic, but ripe and the fruit swells along. 92 points

1986 – Dark chocolate, bit of turkish delight even, kind of mulchy but good with it. Has a slight chlorine taste too it, which is kind of off-putting, grainy tannin and rare beef to close. It’s ok. 89 points

1987 – Redcurrant, floral, bit of cigar box and dried herb, almost a Campari sort of thing going on here. Lovely juicy fruit, and plenty of it, fine acidity, pushes through and goes pretty long. Charmer. Looking great! 94 points

1988 – Red fruit, a bit of beef, a little dry and blocky, some green and tang through it, tannin a bit dry on the finish. but a pretty good wine here. 90 points

1989 – Earthy and mineral character, dark fruit, little sweet blackcurrant, for sure, some dried herb, a bit chunky on the finish, and showing oak tannin, I think. 88-89 points

1990 – Beefy, dried out and acid a bit pokey. Not great. 86 points

1991 – Blackberry, blackcurrant, cedar, and cigar. Rich fruit, bit drying, but a good core of fruit it must have once had. 90 points

1994 – Plum, spice, pencils, deeper style, almost into liquorice. Medium-bodied, rich almost choc-liquorice, grainy tannin through it but well settled and ripe, a bit like a Pomerol, good finish. 94-95 points.

1995 – Violet, perfumed, black fruits, nice face shame about the legs, tannin is gritty and dry, lacks flow, but tasty. Spicy oak tannin on the back. Good, mind you. 90-91 points

1996 – Redcurrant, dried herb, a little edgy and dilute, but has energy, little whip of tannin, and a dry finish. Has charm. 90 points

1997 – Beefy, drying, too flat and developed, but OK. 87 points

1998 – Very pretty, red and black fruits, still holding good fruit, fleshy and plump, tannin is firm but settled into the wine. Finish is good too. This is very nice. 93 points

1999 – Perfume, cedar, red and black fruits. A bit spicy, but mainly red fruited, and quite sweet too, lovely sarsparilla character, firm tannin, but not drying. Looks good to me, quite a different style but so lovely. 93ish points

2000 – A more mineral style, with cedar and pencils, much darker and riper fruit, blackberry and blackcurrant, again a sarsaparilla thing going on. Tannin is a bit chunky, perhaps, but the finish is dark, slightly smoky and long. Really good too. 93 -94 points

2001 – Drying, some greenness to tannin, chunky and also perhaps a bit warm. A bit of beef, dark raspberry, Tannin drags on finish with some smoky oak. Nice though. I’d go it. 91 points

2002 – More violet and red fruits, a pretty style, but with depth, lovely fine tannin, red fruits and succulence, really like the little herbal thing going on, but with ripeness. Beautiful wine. 94 points

2003 – Bold, dark fruit, grainy and chunky, tannin a bit obtuse, but a good finish. Rugged. 90-91 points

2004 – Pencil, chocolate, violet, black fruit. Medium bodied, dense and dark fruited, a subtle char to it, a little chunky, but good with the tannin dragging a bit on the finish. Good wine mind. Savoury. 91-92 points

2005 – Blackcurrant. blueberry, cedar, iron sort of thing. Acidity is a bit perky, grip of furry tannin,. holding deep fruit, and the finish is pretty good. Much like the 2004 in a way. 92 points

2006 – A bit more into red fruits, more bony and lighter bodied, a herbal play through it, slightly tough and green in tannin, but really like the finish. Let’s see. 91+ points

2007 – Ripe, blackberry, blackcurrant, almost into dark chocolate, some spice and earth. Full bodied, delicious sweep of tannin, mineral and earthy fruit, has intensity and vigour and a very long finish. This is a step up. 95 points

2008 – Ripe, perfumed, liquorice, stony. Full bodied, but kind of tense, with a flood of black and blue fruits, almost seems raw and fruity, and very young. Here’s a wine with some upside. 94+ points

2009 -Big, chocolate, dark fruits and plum. Plump and plummy, so succulent and ripe, dark chocolate and melting tannin, powerful and very long. What a thing. Fantastic. So young. 95-96 points

2010 – Slight leafiness and redcurrant, but a core of dark fruit too, mocha set with rosemary and perfume, good tannins, but a slight grip and not full ripeness, then a long and firm finish. Very good, but not quite up to the pace set by 2009. 94 points

2011 – A lighter vintage, red fruits and lightness, not the depth, but a good amount of charm here. It seems almost unresolved as at now, but the freshness is excellent. Lovely perfume and energy. but it needs some time I’d say. 93+ or maybe more points.

2013 – Here we go. So dense and minerally with graphite tannin, mouth-perfume, impeccable balance, deep and rolling, with a superb finish. Could be immortal. 97 points

2014 – Pencil, deep, dark fruit, superb, great tannin, inner mouth-perfume, melting and long. Absolutely incredible. 96-97 points

2015 – Blackcurrant and raspberry, slight herbal play, but ripe. Has grip and grain, succulent and primary fruit, Graphite tannin, richness, that little drag of herb and cedar on the finish, with some black olive in the mix. It’s wonderful. 95-96 points

2016 – Seamless, on point with redcurrant, raspberry, superb tannin and energy, very fine acidity, superb length. A wine of clarity and presence, and so so good. 97 points

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grb2001
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by grb2001 »

+1 for the 1998 Coonawarra Cabernet tasting - a once in a lifetime experience. And the lunch afterwards at Langtons restaurant wasn't too shabby either!
Couldn't believe how complex those Woodleys Treasure Chest wines were, and sadly I don't think I'll ever get to try the Peppermint Pattie again.

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Craig(NZ)
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Craig(NZ) »

Gary W wrote:On Coleraine -

Te Mata Estate Coleraine Vertical at Rockpool Bar & Grill – August 2018

A wine that pretty much needs no introduction, and for me, probably New Zealand’s greatest red wine. It was also a (unexpected) pleasure to have Campbell sitting alongside me for the tasting, so maybe he’ll chime in with his thoughts. This was a complete vertical of all Coleraine produced to date, with wines purchased as a set at auction by Air New Zealand, and presented as part of their fine wine program. A world first, I believe. Hats off.

1982 – Autumnal, some charred stick bottle age stuff, blackcurrant and cigar box., and a lovely perfume of flowers. Mid-weight at best, holding sweet raspberry and blackcurrant, tannin is fine and refined, almost chocolate on the finish, which is very fine. Wonderful. Classic. All of that. Beautiful now, but still no hurry. 95 points

1983 – Beefy, a bit blocky and tannic, raspberry and bonox, drying out a bit, with a bloody finish that’s grippy, but holding bold fruit. It’s ok. It’s not cohesive, but not bad in itself. 90 points

1984 – Some mulchy vegetal stuff, drying, beefy, and not so much charm, though it’s a drink. 87 points

1985 -A little smoky, darker fruit, almost into liquorice, tannin has grip and grain, and while it’s a bit blocky and developed, it has a pleasing sense of earth/mineral stuff. Finish is tannic, but ripe and the fruit swells along. 92 points

1986 – Dark chocolate, bit of turkish delight even, kind of mulchy but good with it. Has a slight chlorine taste too it, which is kind of off-putting, grainy tannin and rare beef to close. It’s ok. 89 points

1987 – Redcurrant, floral, bit of cigar box and dried herb, almost a Campari sort of thing going on here. Lovely juicy fruit, and plenty of it, fine acidity, pushes through and goes pretty long. Charmer. Looking great! 94 points

1988 – Red fruit, a bit of beef, a little dry and blocky, some green and tang through it, tannin a bit dry on the finish. but a pretty good wine here. 90 points

1989 – Earthy and mineral character, dark fruit, little sweet blackcurrant, for sure, some dried herb, a bit chunky on the finish, and showing oak tannin, I think. 88-89 points

1990 – Beefy, dried out and acid a bit pokey. Not great. 86 points

1991 – Blackberry, blackcurrant, cedar, and cigar. Rich fruit, bit drying, but a good core of fruit it must have once had. 90 points

1994 – Plum, spice, pencils, deeper style, almost into liquorice. Medium-bodied, rich almost choc-liquorice, grainy tannin through it but well settled and ripe, a bit like a Pomerol, good finish. 94-95 points.

1995 – Violet, perfumed, black fruits, nice face shame about the legs, tannin is gritty and dry, lacks flow, but tasty. Spicy oak tannin on the back. Good, mind you. 90-91 points

1996 – Redcurrant, dried herb, a little edgy and dilute, but has energy, little whip of tannin, and a dry finish. Has charm. 90 points

1997 – Beefy, drying, too flat and developed, but OK. 87 points

1998 – Very pretty, red and black fruits, still holding good fruit, fleshy and plump, tannin is firm but settled into the wine. Finish is good too. This is very nice. 93 points

1999 – Perfume, cedar, red and black fruits. A bit spicy, but mainly red fruited, and quite sweet too, lovely sarsparilla character, firm tannin, but not drying. Looks good to me, quite a different style but so lovely. 93ish points

2000 – A more mineral style, with cedar and pencils, much darker and riper fruit, blackberry and blackcurrant, again a sarsaparilla thing going on. Tannin is a bit chunky, perhaps, but the finish is dark, slightly smoky and long. Really good too. 93 -94 points

2001 – Drying, some greenness to tannin, chunky and also perhaps a bit warm. A bit of beef, dark raspberry, Tannin drags on finish with some smoky oak. Nice though. I’d go it. 91 points

2002 – More violet and red fruits, a pretty style, but with depth, lovely fine tannin, red fruits and succulence, really like the little herbal thing going on, but with ripeness. Beautiful wine. 94 points

2003 – Bold, dark fruit, grainy and chunky, tannin a bit obtuse, but a good finish. Rugged. 90-91 points

2004 – Pencil, chocolate, violet, black fruit. Medium bodied, dense and dark fruited, a subtle char to it, a little chunky, but good with the tannin dragging a bit on the finish. Good wine mind. Savoury. 91-92 points

2005 – Blackcurrant. blueberry, cedar, iron sort of thing. Acidity is a bit perky, grip of furry tannin,. holding deep fruit, and the finish is pretty good. Much like the 2004 in a way. 92 points

2006 – A bit more into red fruits, more bony and lighter bodied, a herbal play through it, slightly tough and green in tannin, but really like the finish. Let’s see. 91+ points

2007 – Ripe, blackberry, blackcurrant, almost into dark chocolate, some spice and earth. Full bodied, delicious sweep of tannin, mineral and earthy fruit, has intensity and vigour and a very long finish. This is a step up. 95 points

2008 – Ripe, perfumed, liquorice, stony. Full bodied, but kind of tense, with a flood of black and blue fruits, almost seems raw and fruity, and very young. Here’s a wine with some upside. 94+ points

2009 -Big, chocolate, dark fruits and plum. Plump and plummy, so succulent and ripe, dark chocolate and melting tannin, powerful and very long. What a thing. Fantastic. So young. 95-96 points

2010 – Slight leafiness and redcurrant, but a core of dark fruit too, mocha set with rosemary and perfume, good tannins, but a slight grip and not full ripeness, then a long and firm finish. Very good, but not quite up to the pace set by 2009. 94 points

2011 – A lighter vintage, red fruits and lightness, not the depth, but a good amount of charm here. It seems almost unresolved as at now, but the freshness is excellent. Lovely perfume and energy. but it needs some time I’d say. 93+ or maybe more points.

2013 – Here we go. So dense and minerally with graphite tannin, mouth-perfume, impeccable balance, deep and rolling, with a superb finish. Could be immortal. 97 points

2014 – Pencil, deep, dark fruit, superb, great tannin, inner mouth-perfume, melting and long. Absolutely incredible. 96-97 points

2015 – Blackcurrant and raspberry, slight herbal play, but ripe. Has grip and grain, succulent and primary fruit, Graphite tannin, richness, that little drag of herb and cedar on the finish, with some black olive in the mix. It’s wonderful. 95-96 points

2016 – Seamless, on point with redcurrant, raspberry, superb tannin and energy, very fine acidity, superb length. A wine of clarity and presence, and so so good. 97 points
A thing I have noted re write ups of vertical tastings for years and years and years wherever I look is a bias towards the younger wines. On average one could conclude it's a waste of time cellaring wines!!

I'd basically agree with you with your analysis of 2000 onward. Before that bottle variation/ natural decline would definitely come in to play and my rankings would be comparing the vintages at their peak. Notably the 1991 is absolutely considered one of the classics. I have had many magical experiences with that vintage but most bottles now would be on the decline (though I would be prepared to bet not all!). Unfortunately the last bottle I had the opportunity to drink a couple of years ago was terribly corked :-(

Mike Hawkins
Posts: 2747
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:39 am

Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Mike Hawkins »

Craig(NZ) wrote:
Gary W wrote:On Coleraine -

Te Mata Estate Coleraine Vertical at Rockpool Bar & Grill – August 2018

A wine that pretty much needs no introduction, and for me, probably New Zealand’s greatest red wine. It was also a (unexpected) pleasure to have Campbell sitting alongside me for the tasting, so maybe he’ll chime in with his thoughts. This was a complete vertical of all Coleraine produced to date, with wines purchased as a set at auction by Air New Zealand, and presented as part of their fine wine program. A world first, I believe. Hats off.

1982 – Autumnal, some charred stick bottle age stuff, blackcurrant and cigar box., and a lovely perfume of flowers. Mid-weight at best, holding sweet raspberry and blackcurrant, tannin is fine and refined, almost chocolate on the finish, which is very fine. Wonderful. Classic. All of that. Beautiful now, but still no hurry. 95 points

1983 – Beefy, a bit blocky and tannic, raspberry and bonox, drying out a bit, with a bloody finish that’s grippy, but holding bold fruit. It’s ok. It’s not cohesive, but not bad in itself. 90 points

1984 – Some mulchy vegetal stuff, drying, beefy, and not so much charm, though it’s a drink. 87 points

1985 -A little smoky, darker fruit, almost into liquorice, tannin has grip and grain, and while it’s a bit blocky and developed, it has a pleasing sense of earth/mineral stuff. Finish is tannic, but ripe and the fruit swells along. 92 points

1986 – Dark chocolate, bit of turkish delight even, kind of mulchy but good with it. Has a slight chlorine taste too it, which is kind of off-putting, grainy tannin and rare beef to close. It’s ok. 89 points

1987 – Redcurrant, floral, bit of cigar box and dried herb, almost a Campari sort of thing going on here. Lovely juicy fruit, and plenty of it, fine acidity, pushes through and goes pretty long. Charmer. Looking great! 94 points

1988 – Red fruit, a bit of beef, a little dry and blocky, some green and tang through it, tannin a bit dry on the finish. but a pretty good wine here. 90 points

1989 – Earthy and mineral character, dark fruit, little sweet blackcurrant, for sure, some dried herb, a bit chunky on the finish, and showing oak tannin, I think. 88-89 points

1990 – Beefy, dried out and acid a bit pokey. Not great. 86 points

1991 – Blackberry, blackcurrant, cedar, and cigar. Rich fruit, bit drying, but a good core of fruit it must have once had. 90 points

1994 – Plum, spice, pencils, deeper style, almost into liquorice. Medium-bodied, rich almost choc-liquorice, grainy tannin through it but well settled and ripe, a bit like a Pomerol, good finish. 94-95 points.

1995 – Violet, perfumed, black fruits, nice face shame about the legs, tannin is gritty and dry, lacks flow, but tasty. Spicy oak tannin on the back. Good, mind you. 90-91 points

1996 – Redcurrant, dried herb, a little edgy and dilute, but has energy, little whip of tannin, and a dry finish. Has charm. 90 points

1997 – Beefy, drying, too flat and developed, but OK. 87 points

1998 – Very pretty, red and black fruits, still holding good fruit, fleshy and plump, tannin is firm but settled into the wine. Finish is good too. This is very nice. 93 points

1999 – Perfume, cedar, red and black fruits. A bit spicy, but mainly red fruited, and quite sweet too, lovely sarsparilla character, firm tannin, but not drying. Looks good to me, quite a different style but so lovely. 93ish points

2000 – A more mineral style, with cedar and pencils, much darker and riper fruit, blackberry and blackcurrant, again a sarsaparilla thing going on. Tannin is a bit chunky, perhaps, but the finish is dark, slightly smoky and long. Really good too. 93 -94 points

2001 – Drying, some greenness to tannin, chunky and also perhaps a bit warm. A bit of beef, dark raspberry, Tannin drags on finish with some smoky oak. Nice though. I’d go it. 91 points

2002 – More violet and red fruits, a pretty style, but with depth, lovely fine tannin, red fruits and succulence, really like the little herbal thing going on, but with ripeness. Beautiful wine. 94 points

2003 – Bold, dark fruit, grainy and chunky, tannin a bit obtuse, but a good finish. Rugged. 90-91 points

2004 – Pencil, chocolate, violet, black fruit. Medium bodied, dense and dark fruited, a subtle char to it, a little chunky, but good with the tannin dragging a bit on the finish. Good wine mind. Savoury. 91-92 points

2005 – Blackcurrant. blueberry, cedar, iron sort of thing. Acidity is a bit perky, grip of furry tannin,. holding deep fruit, and the finish is pretty good. Much like the 2004 in a way. 92 points

2006 – A bit more into red fruits, more bony and lighter bodied, a herbal play through it, slightly tough and green in tannin, but really like the finish. Let’s see. 91+ points

2007 – Ripe, blackberry, blackcurrant, almost into dark chocolate, some spice and earth. Full bodied, delicious sweep of tannin, mineral and earthy fruit, has intensity and vigour and a very long finish. This is a step up. 95 points

2008 – Ripe, perfumed, liquorice, stony. Full bodied, but kind of tense, with a flood of black and blue fruits, almost seems raw and fruity, and very young. Here’s a wine with some upside. 94+ points

2009 -Big, chocolate, dark fruits and plum. Plump and plummy, so succulent and ripe, dark chocolate and melting tannin, powerful and very long. What a thing. Fantastic. So young. 95-96 points

2010 – Slight leafiness and redcurrant, but a core of dark fruit too, mocha set with rosemary and perfume, good tannins, but a slight grip and not full ripeness, then a long and firm finish. Very good, but not quite up to the pace set by 2009. 94 points

2011 – A lighter vintage, red fruits and lightness, not the depth, but a good amount of charm here. It seems almost unresolved as at now, but the freshness is excellent. Lovely perfume and energy. but it needs some time I’d say. 93+ or maybe more points.

2013 – Here we go. So dense and minerally with graphite tannin, mouth-perfume, impeccable balance, deep and rolling, with a superb finish. Could be immortal. 97 points

2014 – Pencil, deep, dark fruit, superb, great tannin, inner mouth-perfume, melting and long. Absolutely incredible. 96-97 points

2015 – Blackcurrant and raspberry, slight herbal play, but ripe. Has grip and grain, succulent and primary fruit, Graphite tannin, richness, that little drag of herb and cedar on the finish, with some black olive in the mix. It’s wonderful. 95-96 points

2016 – Seamless, on point with redcurrant, raspberry, superb tannin and energy, very fine acidity, superb length. A wine of clarity and presence, and so so good. 97 points
A thing I have noted re write ups of vertical tastings for years and years and years wherever I look is a bias towards the younger wines. On average one could conclude it's a waste of time cellaring wines!!

I'd basically agree with you with your analysis of 2000 onward. Before that bottle variation/ natural decline would definitely come in to play and my rankings would be comparing the vintages at their peak. Notably the 1991 is absolutely considered one of the classics. I have had many magical experiences with that vintage but most bottles now would be on the decline (though I would be prepared to bet not all!). Unfortunately the last bottle I had the opportunity to drink a couple of years ago was terribly corked :-(

Craig, I absolutely agree with your comments re the young wines in verticals. I’ve posted the same thought repeatedly. Most critics do the same thing.

I get that there have been improvements in winemaking etc, but certainly not enough to skew the results in most verticals. Strange days indeed...

Mahmoud Ali
Posts: 2954
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Mahmoud Ali »

Theporkrail wrote: ... Standish "The Standish" 2012 is to me the epitome of this discussion, grapes from a vineyard he only got once (although he may have access to it again with the Lamella in recent years), just a one off of a wine that is just a level above the outstanding.
From what I read about the meaning of a unicorn wine that is indeed correct.

Mahmoud.

Gary W
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Gary W »

The young wines are most often better, and in the case of Coleraine, aside freak 82 first crop, a golden era starting around 2007-> and really stepping up from there. Winemakers agree...

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Craig(NZ)
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:12 pm
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Re: Unicorn wines of the future..

Post by Craig(NZ) »

Gary W wrote:The young wines are most often better, and in the case of Coleraine, aside freak 82 first crop, a golden era starting around 2007-> and really stepping up from there. Winemakers agree...
Winemakers agree on one thing. The vintage for sale is the best ever. I give Peter Cowley shit about it as he rolls it out every year. Now he says to me "Craig this is the best 2016 Coleraine we have ever made". :mrgreen: Consummate marketers :mrgreen:

PS I like your 2016 note. Describes that wine perfectly
Last edited by Craig(NZ) on Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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