The Auswine Forum

Craig,
I accept that there is a fair bit of trying to push the price envelope at Pennies on the basis of their position in the scheme if things, I don't like it either. I thought the Bin 620 was a bit outrageous at $1k, then the 170 at $1.8k (looks more reasonable if we talk in multiples of 1000's). Then again, I always think you have to have something to aspire to, so I support the philosophy of trying to establish really good high end wines that will last for 30yrs+.

Certainly there is an element if trying to tap into lucrative os markets and make bucket loads of cash, even if some of those markets add Coke to Grange when drinking! At the same time, it does disenfranchise the local market. I certainly can't afford to buy as much 707 as I would like, that's for sure! And in general, thank goodness for the secondary market.

I would be right in the queue with you to get more 86 Bin28, have had some cracking examples over say 3-6 yrs ago. I am also waiting with trepidation to see the rrp for 2012 BL!

Greenock Ck gets a few mentions above. Was at CD last year and just don't get their Roenfeldt Rd wines, completely undrinkable IMO. Same goes for Chris Ringland .... Now there's some price gouging!!

cheers, Malcolm

mjs wrote:Craig,
I accept that there is a fair bit of trying to push the price envelope at Pennies on the basis of their position in the scheme if things, I don't like it either. I thought the Bin 620 was a bit outrageous at $1k, then the 170 at $1.8k (looks more reasonable if we talk in multiples of 1000's). Then again, I always think you have to have something to aspire to, so I support the philosophy of trying to establish really good high end wines that will last for 30yrs+.

Certainly there is an element if trying to tap into lucrative os markets and make bucket loads of cash, even if some of those markets add Coke to Grange when drinking! At the same time, it does disenfranchise the local market. I certainly can't afford to buy as much 707 as I would like, that's for sure! And in general, thank goodness for the secondary market.

I would be right in the queue with you to get more 86 Bin28, have had some cracking examples over say 3-6 yrs ago. I am also waiting with trepidation to see the rrp for 2012 BL!

Greenock Ck gets a few mentions above. Was at CD last year and just don't get their Roenfeldt Rd wines, completely undrinkable IMO. Same goes for Chris Ringland .... Now there's some price gouging!!

cheers, Malcolm

Malcolm, you said at the end of para 1 that you support the idea of making 30+ year wines, then labelled the RR wines undrinkable, and called them gouging... These are true 30+ year wines as well, and any 30+ year wine will be undrinkable at 5 years of age. Give me the option of buying 9 bottles of great vintage Roennfeldt Road plus change, or 1 bottle of Bin 170 for $1800 bucks, I know where 99.99999999999% of wine drinkers will go, and I can't conceive of an argument where you could justify calling Greenock Creek gougers compared to that lunacy.

I suppose to a large extent the market determines the price, and if we have that many morons with such disposable income they will get what they deserve.

I'd also like to see what Penfolds would do in 35 years if someone who lashed out for 1 bottle of Bin170 reported it corked...

phillisc wrote:Inevitably, people vote with their feet. Unless there are amazing 2012 releases at reasonable prices then the ride for most will be over.
Cheers
Craig.

Hi Craig,

People I know in the industry in SA are telling me 2012 is a step up from 2010, so unless Penfolds has dropped the ball (highly unlikely with the talented people they have), there will be some amazing releases in the next few years. And if KKR gets hold of the company, St Henri will probably be $150+ by then. After all, VC's et al want to gear up, mark up, cut back and flog at the best price possible in the short to medium term.

Depressing thought actually - but the underlying wines will still be good.

Mike

For those looking to work out if sealed cases are under screw cap or cork.
Screw caps have a code on the box ending in 13. Cork ends in 15.
Saves a Man vs Wild attempt at not damaging the box.

Mike you have precisely highlighted the fundamental issue.

Pennies wont drop the ball with what they have made re brilliant wines for the 2012 vintage but they will be holding the ball and giving a 50 metre to the opposition re their shitty marketing practices.

For mine, not hard to work out (and I got another 6 pack yesterday at $67 pb) that the market price for 2010 St Henri is around $70-75. I am confident to say that because thats all the punters will pay on the second hand market.
The 2011 vintage is a write off. Therefore, instead of playing these shitty little mind games 2012 should be released at a flat rate of $80.

I care little for the stance that suggests this is the MIGHTY 2012 vintage, so we will gouge you at $150, leaving the chains to look like the good guys again (through all the heavy lifting that they do so Pennies and their ridiculous RRP can save face), and we will give it to for $110.
This is all about a disenfranchised domestic market, why can't Pennies fess up and have the balls to be the consumers friend for once and price the 2012 under $100.

Makes sense to me.
But Mike, unless it is then I need not be bothered, cause my wallet will be shut.

Cheers
Craig.

I hear you Craig. I feel that Treasury and its shareholders will be much better owners than KKR - at least from a consumer persepctive.

$67 is a good price. I was lazy and took the first offer I got at $85

Happened to walk past the St Henri at a Dan's earlier today. Still approx 72 dollars and some cents. sealed under cork of course. What struck me as odd was the 2009, cheaper and under screwup, was sitting next to it. Inquired as to the availability of the 09. "Yeah, plenty of that around mate". Makes me wonder if we'll be in the same boat with 10's in 12 months...(notwithstanding the vintage that was 2011..)

Cheers Matt

dan_smee wrote:

mjs wrote:Craig,
I accept that there is a fair bit of trying to push the price envelope at Pennies on the basis of their position in the scheme if things, I don't like it either. I thought the Bin 620 was a bit outrageous at $1k, then the 170 at $1.8k (looks more reasonable if we talk in multiples of 1000's). Then again, I always think you have to have something to aspire to, so I support the philosophy of trying to establish really good high end wines that will last for 30yrs+.

Certainly there is an element if trying to tap into lucrative os markets and make bucket loads of cash, even if some of those markets add Coke to Grange when drinking! At the same time, it does disenfranchise the local market. I certainly can't afford to buy as much 707 as I would like, that's for sure! And in general, thank goodness for the secondary market.

I would be right in the queue with you to get more 86 Bin28, have had some cracking examples over say 3-6 yrs ago. I am also waiting with trepidation to see the rrp for 2012 BL!

Greenock Ck gets a few mentions above. Was at CD last year and just don't get their Roenfeldt Rd wines, completely undrinkable IMO. Same goes for Chris Ringland .... Now there's some price gouging!!

cheers, Malcolm

Malcolm, you said at the end of para 1 that you support the idea of making 30+ year wines, then labelled the RR wines undrinkable, and called them gouging... These are true 30+ year wines as well, and any 30+ year wine will be undrinkable at 5 years of age. Give me the option of buying 9 bottles of great vintage Roennfeldt Road plus change, or 1 bottle of Bin 170 for $1800 bucks, I know where 99.99999999999% of wine drinkers will go, and I can't conceive of an argument where you could justify calling Greenock Creek gougers compared to that lunacy.

I suppose to a large extent the market determines the price, and if we have that many morons with such disposable income they will get what they deserve.

Despite this being a little OT, I guess I don't subscribe to the idea that 30+yr wines need to be undrinkable in the first 20 yrs. I would defy you to drink half a bottle of recent Roenfeldt Rd Cab in the next 10 yrs and enjoy it. Also think I was complaining about Ringland rather than GC re gouging.

Chris gouging? He harvested grapes enough for a whopping 80 cases this year - and it still sells for much less than HoG. If it was not for consultancies, the wine would not exist at all.

Greetings from Europe / fts70

Yes its funny, first time I tried Ringers 3 rivers and for such a powerful wine it was all there...absolutely loved it, not that I could ever afford it!
Compared to run rig....overstewed alcoholic plum jam... just yuck.

Can't like them all.
Cheers Craig

fts70 wrote:Chris gouging? He harvested grapes enough for a whopping 80 cases this year - and it still sells for much less than HoG. If it was not for consultancies, the wine would not exist at all.

Greetings from Europe / fts70

This is the 3 Rivers? Doesnt that sell for c$900 AUD a bottle? Making 80 cases worth about $900K? With no marketing expenses due to the established brand name and a cost base per bottle at the most around $50 or $48K, meaning even allowing for tax, 80 cases could provide a clear profit of >$300K??

sjw_11 wrote:

fts70 wrote:Chris gouging? He harvested grapes enough for a whopping 80 cases this year - and it still sells for much less than HoG. If it was not for consultancies, the wine would not exist at all.

This is the 3 Rivers? Doesnt that sell for c$900 AUD a bottle?

No, it's in the region of $500.

Just to really rub the salt into our wounds. Mates in the UK are presently buying 2000 Grange at the massive supermarket chain Tescos, for... £49.99. BOGOF?!

Cheers, Travis.

TravisW wrote:Just to really rub the salt into our wounds. Mates in the UK are presently buying 2000 Grange at the massive supermarket chain Tescos, for... £49.99. BOGOF?!

Cheers, Travis.

Travis..BOGOF...sorry don't get that one

You will be able to get a case of the 2011 vintage for that price.

Tescos looking to do a KKR are they

Cheers Craig.

Just to really rub the salt into our wounds. Mates in the UK are presently buying 2000 Grange at the massive supermarket chain Tescos, for... £49.99. BOGOF?!

Cheers, Travis.

...just dialling my great uncle in London now. "Can you buy and hold for me a dozen of the Grange for me now please?"

He comes out to visit every couple of years. Hypothetically I could get him to bring a few bottles each trip and we'd avoid paying any duty.

The purchase would work out at about $1000 AUS in current terms. Going retail here and it works out at $600 approx a bottle or $7200 for the case. There's something seriously wrong with this situation...

Cheers
Matt

TravisW wrote:Mates in the UK are presently buying 2000 Grange at the massive supermarket chain Tescos, for... £49.99.

Still overpriced

BOGOF
Buy One Get One Free

For those interested the major chain that we love to hate appears to have received another batch across Sydney. Bottles are under cork and still around $73.00, check website for availibility. Perhaps this is giving weight to the "drip feed" theorists, hmmm.....

The only £50 grange I have been told about was in 2009 and was an in store reduction. My sister lives over in the UK and told me she would be using it on her cereal if that was still the case!

Phil H wrote:For those interested the major chain that we love to hate appears to have received another batch across Sydney. Bottles are under cork and still around $73.00, check website for availibility. Perhaps this is giving weight to the "drip feed" theorists, hmmm.....

Thanks for the tip! Just ordered 6 from the website, no clue if cork or screwcap but I can live with either.
I figure they may be drip feeding stock, but after the initial push it is unlikely to ever be much cheaper than $73- so if its worth getting may as well get it now.

Love the aiyah! But aren't Singaporeans more likely to exclaim aiyoh! =)

Sam, have you come across Oaks Cellars in Singapore? They have some pretty special bottles there. I got chased out of the shop for trying to take a picture. My fault I suppose for not asking for permission.

In fact, my colleague got a $500 fine for drinking bottled water on the MRT! Amazing! It truly is a FINE state! =)

TravisW wrote:Just to really rub the salt into our wounds. Mates in the UK are presently buying 2000 Grange at the massive supermarket chain Tescos, for... £49.99. BOGOF?!

Where? When? I can't see anything online - St Henri is 50 pounds!

I've got inlaws flying over next week - hook me up with the details to buy a case for $1k & I'll give you a bottle!

Since Mong' s hiatus and the Rockford thread...both going for some years now...I think there is a bit more mileage in this St Henri number.

Over 100 posts now, we should keep going till May 1, 2015 cause by that stage Tesco will probably be the only one game enough to sell the 2011 offering
Oh sorry silly me...someone will come out with a 105 point score.

Phil, you are dead right...the drip feed is alive and well.

Cheers
Craig

shauno wrote:

TravisW wrote:Just to really rub the salt into our wounds. Mates in the UK are presently buying 2000 Grange at the massive supermarket chain Tescos, for... £49.99. BOGOF?!

Where? When? I can't see anything online - St Henri is 50 pounds!

I've got inlaws flying over next week - hook me up with the details to buy a case for $1k & I'll give you a bottle!

There is a thread on the UK based wine-pages forum. Scroll down to the "Grange reduced at TEE" topic. Looks like it is on a store by store basis.

Cheers, Travis.

winenovice wrote:Love the aiyah! But aren't Singaporeans more likely to exclaim aiyoh! =)

Sam, have you come across Oaks Cellars in Singapore? They have some pretty special bottles there. I got chased out of the shop for trying to take a picture. My fault I suppose for not asking for permission.

In fact, my colleague got a $500 fine for drinking bottled water on the MRT! Amazing! It truly is a FINE state! =)

You hear both, I have always said Aiyah anyway, its just more frequent now!

Yeah I have been to Oaks... agree they have nice stuff but boy is it priced HIGH... Even for more ordinary stuff, super expensive.
I actually think Singapore doesn't deserve its reputation as a very strict / highly policed state... I think they just pick on a few tourists at random to keep up the image

wasn't going to purchase any but when i saw it for $59.50 today (after discounts) I could not resist.

cheers

Dan Murphy at Hornsby received 12 cases on Saturday
I picked up a case at $72 bottle

I think I paid $70 each for a couple of bottles of 2002 so $73 seems reasonable for a current release vintage.

Cruised into First Choice Unley in Adelaide today to get some bubbles and there was some 2010 St Henri. Was $85 and with 10% off for 6+ sub $80.

Carl