Wine Tasting Without Scores

[KMP]

The argument against scores always seems to come around to the (counter?) argument that its the tasting note that is important. But, at least in my experience, the same arguments apply especially the concerns about accuracy and reproducibility.

I would suggest that most (if not all) critics would have a hard time demonstrating just how accurately they can identify aromas (e.g blackberry is correctly identified as blackberry) or how accurately they can quantify components of taste (e.g. levels of acidity, sweetness, bitterness etc). Reproducing a tasting note on two or more separate occasions seems to me to be something that many cannot do, especially if the wine is tasted blind.

But, of course, bottle variation can always be used to explain why something cannot be reproduced. I was reminded, once again, how dramatic this can be on the past weekend when I was given what I thought were four 2005 Bordeaux wines to taste. As far as I was concerned all four were completely different, although one (wine No. 3) was definitely much older than 2005. When I was shown the bottles it was revealed that wines 1 and 4 were the same – except they had been brought to the tasting by two different people who had purchased the wine at two different locations within the last couple of days.

Mike

[Ratcatcher]

Points are important to me, but only as an indicator to do more research.

If a new producer has produced a good wine or a normally mediocre wine has had a freak vintage I probably wouldn't read about it if it appears in amongst hundreds or in Halliday's case thousands of purely written reviews. I don't have enough time to read 7,000 reviews and I don't want to read through 6800 reviews of wines the reviewer thought were mediocre or reasonably good and work out the nuances of the text to find the 50 or 60 I may be interested in.

But if Walsh Estate's Mattinson Block Shiraz gets 94+ points then I will probably take the time to read the review.

I love points but only as a prompt to read the text.

I don't read the text for scores under 89 unless it's a wine that I have bought and liked previously. What's the point of reading about wines the writer thinks were mediocre? Doesn't mean I wouldn't drink it or taste it for myself if it was available but I'm not gonna bother reading about all the wines people found mediocre.

I don't know if I've expressed myself very well here, but oh well!

[Jay60A]

This thread is like the meeting of the flat earth society. As soon as you guys all realise the 109 point system is the only perfect system in the universe the better (Ok that joke is getting a little tired now isnt it??)

I think everyone is well aware of the failings of rating a wine using a numerical or broadband scoring system. The one thing it does do though is tell the reader what the taster thought of the wine compared to the next wine he tasted and rated. Which one did he personally 'prefer'? That question is answered.

Even that argument though has its flaws as tasting wines apart over time can cause innacurate comparison but hey its a start

I think we are also well aware of the points lemmens types. While in queenstown I was in a shop where 90 wines were available for tasting. An american with coopers annual in hand was at the counter thumbing through asking the patient assistant for various wines that cooper had rated well. Not bad in itself. if I was in America id probably use some publication to direct me a little. However the point was that the wines he was deciding over he could just taste....they were available so why did he not trust what he liked?? It does make me wonder about the yanks and whether they fear having their own opinion on taste, style and fashion.

The world of 'I like it so you will too' could have a weak corrolation but it is not necessarily a strong one. If I recommend a IMO stellar chardonnay for example 6/10 of you may agree with me that it is tops. 3/10 may think its average and 1/10 may not like it. Its just the world of tastes and opinions my friends (its just the last 4/10 of you are wrong hehe)

However that should not stop anyone from expressing what their opinion is in a numerical sense or otherwise.

Craig is expressing a moderate and well thought out statement which eschews stirring. Isn't that like the 8th sign the world is coming to an end of something ...?


Craig mate, have you taken up golf as well?

Cheers -- Jay

[Craig(NZ)]

Craig is expressing a moderate and well thought out statement which eschews stirring. Isn't that like the 8th sign the world is coming to an end of something ...?

yeah you know my true opinion Jay 109 or bust

This is about the only justification I can see for the use of scores. And, even then only in context. If

yip totally agree. scoring can be argued as nonsense but scoring at the same time has its uses. a sweet bitter paradox but one i can live with

[Glen]

Can someone please score Ratcatchers comments so that I know whether to read them or not

I agree totally with Mike, most people cannot accurately identify aromas which makes reading tasting notes a bit pointless too.

At WineTech in Adelaide June 2007, I ran a competition using 5 aromas from the Le Nez du Vin kit where people were to smell these blind and guess what they were. Of the 71 people that actually had the guts to write their answers on paper, 1 person got 5/5, 1 person 4/5 and 16 people 2/5, with the rest dragging the chain on 1 or 0. Remember, these are industry people and I can say there were some pretty well respected noses taking part (not to mention some of them that verbally offered their thoughts but didn't commit literally).

I also ran a simple Is This Red or White? whereby I had two black tasting glasses with a red and a white in each and people simply had to guess what it was inside. 40% got this basic test wrong.


At the end of the day, I guess I couldn't give a rats who thought what of a wine. If I taste it and like it, I buy it. Knowing the pedigree of a wine is also of assistance.

[kirragc]

I guess the pointing and grading of wine assumes the drinker will be expereinceing the wine in a certain environment, thus is not accurate for real world.
We dont sit donw in the evening and compare a draft of 15 wines to each other, well most of us dont.

Most of us prepare a meal, cruise the forums, entertain the kids, go to the gym, meet some friends, argue with the wife. hte list goes on

For mine , and I love wine, the joy of it is in the experience and that experience also depends on the environment (food, mood, friends etc) So points are a waste of my time, outside of academic discussion, generally so are most desriptions.


For wine communication to mean anything to me it has to tell me about the experience of the wine, what were you doing, who were you with, what did you eat. That might mean something to me or might not.


Now tell me you sat down to 117 Chardonnays over 4 days and these were the top three by a margin of 3 points and the next best were 4-5 points away is simply silly to me because I will never do that. All it succeeds in doing is puttting prices points on wine.

Ive had magic moments on so called 60 point wines and been left wanting by 90+ rating from all critics.

the whole thing is a grain of salt.

[pcjm]

Hi

As a new comer to wine, only about 1 1/2 years, I rely a little to much on scores because im still learning the flavour profiles that i like. I find that I like TORB's scoring system because it gives you a value for money score as well.

[Nayan]

Hi

As a new comer to wine, only about 1 1/2 years, I rely a little to much on scores because im still learning the flavour profiles that i like. I find that I like TORB's scoring system because it gives you a value for money score as well.

Welcome to the forum pcjm!

I'd suggest that you should be concentrating on the notes more than the scores if you are trying to learn the flavour profiles. Points tell you nothing about flavours.

When I first started out tasting (through Whisky actually), I used to pick up the (UK) Oddbins catalogues and pour over their tasting notes then bought bottles to see if I could identify the same components.