The Auswine Forum

Andrew Jordan wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:2015Opus One... I know I’m’meant’ to like it, but is just seems simple and confected and made to an inflexible formula. Others raved, not me.

Wasn't corked by chance

Not this time!

felixp21 wrote: 2005 Mount Mary Quintet
bleh, luckily I think this was my last bottle. Dreadful wine, I would guess this as a $8 Chilean Malbec if seen blind. MM went thru a horror 20 years, and this wine is, sadly, a child of that time. Green, sweet, no varietal characteristics whatsoever, no terroir. 84pts

I've said it before that something went wrong at Mount Mary with the 2005 vintage. the Pinot was the shocking, thin and lacked fruit.
I bought 3 bottles of the Quintet before I tried it and after I did try it I was hoping time would be kind but it doesn't look like it.

Cheers Con.

Interesting that the 2006 version is much cheaper at auction than the 2005.

2013 Vietti Langhe nebbiolo 'Perbacco'. Was a little dark fruited to my tastes, with a big whiff of black olive on opening. Medium bodied at most, with a decent amount of tannin. Not sure whether it has the depth, but this was the first of a couple of bottles to try this bottling out. The other will be buried for another 5 years or so

Con J wrote:

felixp21 wrote: 2005 Mount Mary Quintet
bleh, luckily I think this was my last bottle. Dreadful wine, I would guess this as a $8 Chilean Malbec if seen blind. MM went thru a horror 20 years, and this wine is, sadly, a child of that time. Green, sweet, no varietal characteristics whatsoever, no terroir. 84pts

I've said it before that something went wrong at Mount Mary with the 2005 vintage. the Pinot was the shocking, thin and lacked fruit.
I bought 3 bottles of the Quintet before I tried it and after I did try it I was hoping time would be kind but it doesn't look like it.

Cheers Con.

lots of awful wines out of Victoria in 2005. Bass Phillip stuff is undrinkable.
you know, the funny thing is that the so-called (or is that self-called) "experts" rated the MM stuff highly on release, I actually wondered after I tasted the first bottle of Quintet, at release, if they had actually tasted the stuff they scored. It's always been terrible.
it's quite cool reading the notes on cellar-tracker, I'm a great believer in the fact that we all have different palates and see wines differently, but if you actually like this wine, there can be no doubt you have the palate of a Yak

2012 Kilikanoon Blocks Road Cabernet Sauvignon, Clare Valley

Medium bodied. Cigar box, tobacco leaf, black currant, with a touch of black olive with lovely spice tones. A good level of acidity gives it some freshness with a ripe tannins lingering on the finish. A very well balanced wine with length to burn. Drinking very well now, with a plenty of time on its side. Loved every drop.

So is it true that a yak has a very poor palate?

Could you advise me of your recommendation for decanting time of the 1990 Grange.

amg1950 wrote:Could you advise me of your recommendation for decanting time of the 1990 Grange.

I would make sure it has been standing up in the cellar 2+ weeks before the date of opening.- let gravity do its thing with the sediment. Then I would decant about 2 -3 hours before serving, making sure to decant in one single motion and leave about 1 half a glass (50ml) behind.

I have never experienced an "over - decanted" Grange , but others may differ on this. For me the 1990 is still young and relatively primary so I my recommended decanting time may prove conservative.

Brodie

Houghtons 2010 Gladstones Margaret River Cabernet Sauvignon. We had high expectations but were underwhelmed. Just a typical MR cab with nothing to excite. Tannins and acids were lacking. One dimensional. Boring. Don't think it will get any better with time. JH suggests drink by 2040 but I wouldn't bother.

I agree Chuck, I've often been let down by this wine since the '99. it got rave reviews through the media, yet I felt it was Brett affected.

2012 Chateau de Fuisse 'Le Clos' last night, and quite a rarity for us that we demolished the whole bottle in a single night between 2 of us. Whilst most of Burgundy has suffered from Prem.Ox. we've never had a problem bottle from the Maconnais and indeed I've not even heard of a problem bottle. This had some great complexity coming through, yet still seemed like it could improve over the short term and potentially see out a further decade.

A couple of bottles of Chalk Hill '16 MV Atomic Cabernet
For the money exceptional lovely dusky chocolate violet overtones, earthy without the typical black blue fruit profile, well integrated oak nice finish.
Good for 5-10 years I think.
Cheers Craig

Ian S wrote:Whilst most of Burgundy has suffered from Prem.Ox. we've never had a problem bottle from the Maconnais and indeed I've not even heard of a problem bottle.

Interesting, doesn't that suggest that the problem is not cork but rather something else, but because of vineyard, winemaking, and bottling practices, or a combination thereof?

I know heaps of winemakers in Burgundy who are absolutely convinced the pre-mox problem is not a cork fault. The longer it continues, some say the more the evidence points to a cellar/vinification error. As you know, LeFlaive switched to diam, but at the same time, had major alterations both in their cellar management programme and vinification techniques, hence if their wines remain clean we will never really know what was at fault.
Personally, I cannot understand why the Burgundians don't switch their whites to SC, surely there is enough evidence going around to show that, at the very least, the wines don't suffer from that closure. (unlike the reds)

Of course if the problem in Burgundy is cellar/vinification practice then surely a screwcap might not help.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

Ian S wrote:Whilst most of Burgundy has suffered from Prem.Ox. we've never had a problem bottle from the Maconnais and indeed I've not even heard of a problem bottle.

Interesting, doesn't that suggest that the problem is not cork but rather something else, but because of vineyard, winemaking, and bottling practices, or a combination thereof?

Hi Mahmoud

There has ben a huge amount written on the subject, but still the remedies appear to be mitigation rather than cure. My anecdotal evidence isn't something I'd base a solid theory on. However from what I'd seen written, my own conclusion is so far: It's not the cork, but the cork is a major factor in the variation seen between bottles of the same wine (and indeed same case). Other factor(s) are likely to be the cause, but that's for the experts to work out.

My reasoning is
- Nothing else I'm aware of brings as much variability into a wine, as a cork seal
- Some studies showed how residual SO2 (IIRC) varied dramatically under cork seal - from none to more than enough, within bottles of the same wine & same bottling run.
- Similar corks aren't causing the same volume of problems in other wine regions. Answering the 'why?' seems to be the key to understanding the problem.

Regards
Ian

Ian S wrote:However from what I'd seen written, my own conclusion is so far: It's not the cork, but the cork is a major factor in the variation seen between bottles of the same wine (and indeed same case). Other factor(s) are likely to be the cause, but that's for the experts to work out.

My reasoning is
- Nothing else I'm aware of brings as much variability into a wine, as a cork seal
- Some studies showed how residual SO2 (IIRC) varied dramatically under cork seal - from none to more than enough, within bottles of the same wine & same bottling run.
- Similar corks aren't causing the same volume of problems in other wine regions. Answering the 'why?' seems to be the key to understanding the problem.

Hi Ian,

I see what you mean Ian, in that cork is a natural product, processed not manufactured, and is therefore variable in nature and would consequently have a variable impact on the contents of a bottle, flawed or not. Reinforcing your observation that cork may not be the culprit is the fact that Burgundy producer's reds are not similarly impacted by premox.

This just reinforces my previously stated indifference to whether a bottle of wine is sealed under cork or screwcap - unless of course its a white Burgundy.

Mahmoud.

felixp21 wrote:I know heaps of winemakers in Burgundy who are absolutely convinced the pre-mox problem is not a cork fault. The longer it continues, some say the more the evidence points to a cellar/vinification error. As you know, LeFlaive switched to diam, but at the same time, had major alterations both in their cellar management programme and vinification techniques, hence if their wines remain clean we will never really know what was at fault.
Personally, I cannot understand why the Burgundians don't switch their whites to SC, surely there is enough evidence going around to show that, at the very least, the wines don't suffer from that closure. (unlike the reds)

It definitely isn't just the cork...but that cork is allowing for some additional variation that their current process isn't able to handle well...But at the same time, if they changed closures, they wouldn't have this problem either....So it does matter what the closure is....

From a Macon standpoint..I dunno..I've had premoxed Macon...but I don't care enough to think about it or consider it out of the ordinary...I've even had premoxed Guffens-Heynen...or at least unusually advanced...

A good example of a change that seems to have gone well is Fevre....Huge Premox issue that seems to be a lot better after they've switched to Diam..

Maybe it was they changed something else in the winemaking....but surely the change to Diam hasn't hurt either..

I had two bottles of 2002 Graveyard chardonnay under screw cap last month. Completely different wines and they were stored professionally. One was oak dominant and the other neatly integrated with development offset with freshness. You would be furious if it your Batard Montrachet and complaining to high heaven about screw cap. One was 87pts the other 94pts.

I like the article below on premox. Intrigued by the reference to Rhone whites. I stopped buying white Burgundy at the top end in the 2000's ( still have them in the cellar ) and moved to the delightful white Rhones. Recently, at a private tour at Beaucastel, we chatted about how you either drink their top white Châteauneuf du Pape from old vine Roussanne ( Vieilles Vignes ) young or leave it very old. I thought a Parker comment. Chatted about colour changes as mentioned below. I must add a superb alternative to white Burgundy and still a relative bargain south of 100 USD in bond


http://www.worldoffinewine.com/news/white-b ... s-4717208/

JamieBahrain wrote:
I like the article below on premox.

http://www.worldoffinewine.com/news/white-b ... s-4717208/

Interesting article. I love this line:

"The world has fallen in love with the finesse of Burgundian Pinot Noir as producers have moved away from a monolithic approach and sought to make wines of elegance, balance, and style. It seems to me that many have started to apply this same profile to white Burgundy, which may well be a cardinal error. If Pinot is a ballerina of a grape, Chardonnay is more of a rugby player."

JamieBahrain wrote:
I like the article below on premox. Intrigued by the reference to Rhone whites. I stopped buying white Burgundy at the top end in the 2000's ( still have them in the cellar ) and moved to the delightful white Rhones. Recently, at a private tour at Beaucastel, we chatted about how you either drink their top white Châteauneuf du Pape from old vine Roussanne ( Vieilles Vignes ) young or leave it very old. I thought a Parker comment.

I've no idea whether Parker said this, but it's long been said on the (UK) Wine Pages forum

Ian S wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:
I like the article below on premox. Intrigued by the reference to Rhone whites. I stopped buying white Burgundy at the top end in the 2000's ( still have them in the cellar ) and moved to the delightful white Rhones. Recently, at a private tour at Beaucastel, we chatted about how you either drink their top white Châteauneuf du Pape from old vine Roussanne ( Vieilles Vignes ) young or leave it very old. I thought a Parker comment.

I've no idea whether Parker said this, but it's long been said on the (UK) Wine Pages forum

I think the late Jaboulet said that about his white Hermitage called 'Le Chevalier du Sterimberg', also that after cellaring it should be well decanted and aired before being served.

Ian S wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:
Recently, at a private tour at Beaucastel, we chatted about how you either drink their top white Châteauneuf du Pape from old vine Roussanne ( Vieilles Vignes ) young or leave it very old. I thought a Parker comment.

I've no idea whether Parker said this, but it's long been said on the (UK) Wine Pages forum

I don't read those pages so it was Parker who alerted to the extremely long dumb phase in Vieilles Vignes- versus the vagaries of ageing white Rhone over such diverse varietals and winemaking ( I age Vernay Condrieau too ) . The winery was near scientific in their explanation and in the end, having only a handful of vintages in six pack cases, they said to contact the winery for updated drinking windows as they taste each vintage most years.

With a production of just 500 six pack cases, I'm guessing the winery passes on a lot of cellaring knowledge to the wine media years ago when it hit fame. Who then immortalise the wine with comments such as "Montrachet of the Rhone".

2010 Mastroanni San Pio Cabernet.

80% Cab Sauv, 20% Sangiovese Grosso.

well. in a blind tasting you'd be trying to figure out where it was from. Not Coonawarra, Not Margaret, not Bordeaux, not U.S., i guess that only leaves Italy!!
The Grosso tends to be the dominant initial flavour and aroma at the moment interesting enough. It is complex, rich with bold chewy tannins.
Great with the BBQ Rib Eye, softens the tannins somewhat, but i feel it needs time to soften out.

Sounds nice, and because it has sangiovese grosso I presume it comes from Brunello di Montalcino.

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2004

Better a few years ago I guess. Though still dark and brooding, caramel development notes. Nose is dark and lush though relatively simple- this carries onto the palate. Finishes with considerable heat that I didn't find very enjoyable.

A better wine if decanted .

88pts

2010 Louis Moreau Les Clos Grand Cru Chablis.

Closure: Screwcap... yes, that's correct Screwcap.

I think this may have been the first vintage to be sealed under screwcap, and I cant decide whether it was a failure or a bonus. In fact with this bottle, I'm going with failure.
I purchased it from a retailer on release, and its premox. Not disastrously, but certainly not fresh and vibrant as it should be.
Has anyone else had this vintage under screwcap?

I continue to be impressed by the 2002 vintage. Last night another orphan in the cellar Tatachilla 2002 1901 McLaren Vale Cabernet Sauvignon was enjoyed. Cork was stained to just 2mm. Lovely McLaren Vale Cab dark fruits with regional dark chocolate hints. Everything fully integrated however US oak a bit heavy but overall a very nice wine. Slight porty notes suggest it's past its best so drink up. I don't think I've had a bad wine from this cool slow ripening vintage and many great special wines. I remember being on the PC with Ugg boots on in February of that year.

+1 on 2002, but unsure about my footwear then.