The Auswine Forum

2005 Trimbach Cuvee Frederic Emile (magnum) - superb wine given the vintage conditions... but needs some more time.

2002 Petaluma Riesling - cracking wine that cost peanuts. In a good place.

1998 Tyrrells Vat 1 Semillon - looking a bit tired

1997 Antinori Tignanello - a bit boring

2002 Opus One Cabernet - once funky nose blew off, there was some great fruit. That said, way, way too expensive.

1976 Wynns Black Label Cabernet - the bees knees. They just don't make 'em like this anymore.

2004 Taittinger Comtes BdB ( x 5) - lovely wine that I can't keep my hands off. Will be fantastic in 10 years.

1982 Dom Perignon - this wasn't the best bottle. Normally fantastic.

2001 Chateau Rieussec - believe the hype, this is amazing.

2008 Camille Saves x 2 - great champers in the making with the trademark granny smith acidity.

2002 Groom Shiraz x 2 - bit too porty for me.

2004 Schubert Gooseyard Block - very ripe, and will appeal to people who like that style. Good wine, lovely people.

2000 Chapoutier Le Pavillon - still a bit tannic and primary. Will be excellent.

Mike Hawkins wrote:Thanks Jamie,

I have a very low tolerance for brett, yet others seem to enjoy the 'complexity' it adds.

Mike

Too true Mike

To develop your point, it's like saying, "can I have a teaspoon of pencil shavings in my coffee thanks, I like the complexity".

Funk is great on the dance floor, but not in socks or in wine.

Cheers

Michael

2004 Penfolds 389 Can see where this is heading but still not fully together and a bit hot at the backend. Give it some more time
2006 John Duval Plexus Wow this is really good. Great balance and integration. Still will hold
2006 Yering Station Late Harvest Pinot Gris forgot I had a couple of these lying around. Not sickly sweet and nothing wrong with it. Has lost its zing and vibrancy

Michael McNally wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:Thanks Jamie,

I have a very low tolerance for brett, yet others seem to enjoy the 'complexity' it adds.

Mike

Too true Mike

To develop your point, it's like saying, "can I have a teaspoon of pencil shavings in my coffee thanks, I like the complexity".

Funk is great on the dance floor, but not in socks or in wine.

Cheers

Michael

In my opinion it's not about complexity.

The Japanese have a word for it, 'wabi-sabi'. Many Australian winemakers don't understand this and this contributes to the position that Australian wines have on the world stage.

rossmckay wrote:In my opinion it's not about complexity.

The Japanese have a word for it, 'wabi-sabi'. Many Australian winemakers don't understand this and this contributes to the position that Australian wines have on the world stage.

So Australian wine are limited in our position on the world stage because our winemakers don't speak Japanese?

In my view the only reason (well okay it's a big one) that Australian wines hold the position they do on the world stage is "History".

Cheers

Michael

Michael McNally wrote:

rossmckay wrote:In my opinion it's not about complexity.

The Japanese have a word for it, 'wabi-sabi'. Many Australian winemakers don't understand this and this contributes to the position that Australian wines have on the world stage.

So Australian wine are limited in our position on the world stage because our winemakers don't speak Japanese?

In my view the only reason (well okay it's a big one) that Australian wines hold the position they do on the world stage is "History".

Cheers

Michael

+1
Cheers Craig

2008 Seppelt Chalambar Shiraz

Nice. Surely one of the great bargains? About to go down a treat with a steak after a long day flying to Ballina and back for a few meetings

maybs wrote:2008 Seppelt Chalambar Shiraz

Nice. Surely one of the great bargains? About to go down a treat with a steak after a long day flying to Ballina and back for a few meetings

Can't go wrong with Grampians Shiraz in a good vintage.

Rolf Binder Heysen Shiraz 2007. This is a terrific bottle. Yum.

NV Bleasdale Sparkling Shiraz - Not bad by any means, but not a huge deal of depth or complexity. But it does the job for the price point, although it’s more savoury and drier than I was expecting (not that that’s a bad thing). Improving with a bit of air, maybe some time needed in the bottle to come together? This bottle was straight from the winery and tastes fresh and young.

Michael McNally wrote:

rossmckay wrote:In my opinion it's not about complexity.

The Japanese have a word for it, 'wabi-sabi'. Many Australian winemakers don't understand this and this contributes to the position that Australian wines have on the world stage.

So Australian wine are limited in our position on the world stage because our winemakers don't speak Japanese?

In my view the only reason (well okay it's a big one) that Australian wines hold the position they do on the world stage is "History".

Cheers

Michael

History is a look in the rear vision mirror, it's not a reason

Around the late 90's, Australian wines were thrust into the world spotlight by RPJ, and for a couple of years they were indeed the darlings everywhere, not just the UK and USA, but right thru Europe and many parts of Asia.
Almost as quickly, 5-7 years later, they plummeted from the world stage. And we ended up back to selling yellow-tail and a host of bottom-end wines, primarily because no other country can match our quality at that price point. Sure, the high-end stuff still gets sold, but for those that do not remember, wines like Greenock Creek and Three Rivers were selling on the secondary US markets for three-four times their purchase cost. Now, go have a look at auction sites like Zachy's, and you will see high end 10 year old Australian wine being off-loaded for a fraction of their original cost.
So, I think it is difficult to say "history" is what is holding back Australian wines, they were show-cased to the world, and to a great extent failed.

In my opinion, the problem lies with the ability of modern Australian wines to actually improve with age. Take away the Penfolds and Henschke stables, and there are very few wines that morph into something spectacular 20 years down the road. It is also the same reason why I stopped buying all those same wines (GC, Rockford, Noon etc), they sat in my cellar, and just never got any better. Different maybe, but no better. And it is not the Australian climate or grape variety, there are so many old classics that are magnificent wines. But these days, many winemakers produce wines that instantly gratify, and therefore sell, without a regard to the future.

Pennies and Henschke can afford to deliver us wines that may be too tough and tannic to enjoy immediately, but they are purchased by wine lovers well aware of the track record, and are happy to cellar the wines. Same as 2010 Bordeaux, Burgundy and Napa…. right now, they are fierce prospects indeed. But everyone knows they will come good, just give them time.

So the international market dropped off the fruit bombs. and it wasn't until then many producers changed their methods, and more moderate winemakers appeared. Wines like those made at Head may well hold a successful future for Australian wine, but it will be a long time before we win back the confidence of the overseas consumer to the extent we once enjoyed.

Felix, great insight to cellarability of Australian wine. I am surprised that you don't consider more names besides Henschke and Penfolds aren't on the list though; perhaps it is a matter of taste. I personally think Rockford BP does well. Perhaps this deserves a thread of it's own as opposed to here - I would certainly like to hear others opinions on wines that they consider genuinely improve with 15+ years cellar time.

felixp wrote:Around the late 90's, Australian wines were thrust into the world spotlight by RPJ, and for a couple of years they were indeed the darlings everywhere, not just the UK and USA, but right thru Europe and many parts of Asia.
Almost as quickly, 5-7 years later, they plummeted from the world stage. And we ended up back to selling yellow-tail and a host of bottom-end wines, primarily because no other country can match our quality at that price point. Sure, the high-end stuff still gets sold, but for those that do not remember, wines like Greenock Creek and Three Rivers were selling on the secondary US markets for three-four times their purchase cost. Now, go have a look at auction sites like Zachy's, and you will see high end 10 year old Australian wine being off-loaded for a fraction of their original cost.
So, I think it is difficult to say "history" is what is holding back Australian wines, they were show-cased to the world, and to a great extent failed.

In my opinion, the problem lies with the ability of modern Australian wines to actually improve with age. Take away the Penfolds and Henschke stables, and there are very few wines that morph into something spectacular 20 years down the road. It is also the same reason why I stopped buying all those same wines (GC, Rockford, Noon etc), they sat in my cellar, and just never got any better. Different maybe, but no better. And it is not the Australian climate or grape variety, there are so many old classics that are magnificent wines. But these days, many winemakers produce wines that instantly gratify, and therefore sell, without a regard to the future.

Pennies and Henschke can afford to deliver us wines that may be too tough and tannic to enjoy immediately, but they are purchased by wine lovers well aware of the track record, and are happy to cellar the wines. Same as 2010 Bordeaux, Burgundy and Napa…. right now, they are fierce prospects indeed. But everyone knows they will come good, just give them time.

So the international market dropped off the fruit bombs. and it wasn't until then many producers changed their methods, and more moderate winemakers appeared. Wines like those made at Head may well hold a successful future for Australian wine, but it will be a long time before we win back the confidence of the overseas consumer to the extent we once enjoyed.

Felix have you read 'Why the french hate us' by CM?

Hacker wrote:Felix, great insight to cellarability of Australian wine. I am surprised that you don't consider more names besides Henschke and Penfolds aren't on the list though; perhaps it is a matter of taste. I personally think Rockford BP does well. Perhaps this deserves a thread of it's own as opposed to here - I would certainly like to hear others opinions on wines that they consider genuinely improve with 15+ years cellar time.

yea, as I said there are a few, so not exclusive to those two. Hunter shiraz has many examples of wines that improve with ageing, and of course you got Semillon as well. Rockford BP is an excellent wine in good vintages, no doubt, but I have found that they are as enjoyable at age five years as they are ever going to be. I had a 91 BP in January this year at France Soir, it was magnificent. But I can remember my first bottle of the same case in 1996, it was magnificent too!!!!! Sure, it tastes different now, but on both occasions, I would have rated it around 95, so why cellar for over 20 years?

There is something magical cellaring a wine and watching it blossom into something incredible, I still remember my tastes of 60's Granges as a young boy and seeing them develop in my father's cellar…. they really are/were magical wines, and even Grange has somehow not been able to exactly replicate them.

Of course, there are those exceptional wines that are great young, and improve into something legendary with age, but even world-wide, these are few and far between. 1982 and 2009 Bordeaux may be the two best examples of these. But in my entire drinking life, I have experienced few wines outside these examples. I just think it is near-impossible to have your cake and eat it….. in 99% of cases, great wines demand patience.

Sainsbury re-labelled McWilliams Mount Pleasant Elizabeth 2006.

Interesting post over on Cellartracker today.. Very experienced group of wine lovers. Wines from the 90's and from all over the world. Coldstream Hills reserve pinot did well enough, 90 points, but the 99 Noon shiraz came stone motherless last by a country mile, with a score of 81 points. His descriptors are exactly the same as my last recollection of the wine.
Food for thought as to why Australian wines are not so successful overseas.

I opened and decanted a Wyndham Estate Reserve Bottling Hunter Valley Cabernet Sauvignon 1977 this afternoon and am sipping it now some 4 hours later. It's got plenty of body, and a leafy /damp-earthy character that is running along the lines of TCA, but it's a drinkable and enjoyable old wine with lots to like about it. A nifty sous-bois character showing in this wine at 37 years of age. I have to admit however, that as I write and taste, the wine is fading fast...

Popped and poured a Clonakilla hilltops 2012 Shiraz last night. Nothing complex here but rather pretty. Peppery dark fruits. Simply structured, light to medium bodied with minimal tannins. Rather enjoyed it.

2000 Pol Roger - a tad bland
1999 Robert Chevillon NSG Vaucrains - delicious
2000 Wolf Blass Black Label - even more delicious.

Rymill 2012 coonawarra shiraz. This was one of those really nice surprises that puts a smile on your face (been pretty rare lately in my wine world). I was expecting absolutely nothing from this, but upon tasting, was surprises at how well it drank. It wont win prizes or score 98 points, but as an everyday wine it ticks all the boxes. Easy to drink, nice balance, more of a medium body, but good fruit that is not overpowered by oak. Not a lot of coonawarra earth, but none the less enjoyable.

2008 De Bortoli Pinot Noir Estate

I bought six of these on the strength of some great reviews. After enjoying a couple in their youth I've opened up two more in the last 18 months and been a little non-plussed. Well I opened this last night and the fruit had blossomed compared to previous experience, but even after two hours the fruit felt unbalanced against the acid structure.

Now almost 24 hours later the wine is seamless. There are herbs and berries on the nose and on the palate strawberry, black currant and fine tannin supporting a long finish.

I must admit the word 'Burgundian' did pop in to my head more than once.

Sadly their was only one, albeit large, glass left so the Treasurer demanded another.

2007 Voyager 'Girt By Sea' Cabernet Merlot

Only just opened and very fruity but I detect (or am steamrolled by) eucalyptus, currants and unfortunately a hint of leafiness. Still relatively drinkable though.

Duncan Disorderly wrote:2008 De Bortoli Pinot Noir Estate

I bought six of these on the strength of some great reviews. After enjoying a couple in their youth I've opened up two more in the last 18 months and been a little non-plussed. Well I opened this last night and the fruit had blossomed compared to previous experience, but even after two hours the fruit felt unbalanced against the acid structure.

Now almost 24 hours later the wine is seamless. There are herbs and berries on the nose and on the palate strawberry, black currant and fine tannin supporting a long finish.

I must admit the word 'Burgundian' did pop in to my head more than once.

Sadly their was only one, albeit large, glass left so the Treasurer demanded another.

2007 Voyager 'Girt By Sea' Cabernet Merlot

Only just opened and very fruity but I detect (or am steamrolled by) eucalyptus, currants and unfortunately a hint of leafiness. Still relatively drinkable though.

They really have a great grasp on their use of stems. I'm a fan

1998 Clarendon Hills Old Vine Grenache - Lovely leather, sour cherry, great acidity.
1998 Chain of Ponds Riesling
2013 Campbells Trebbiano
2008 Woodlands Cab/Merlot

2010 Produttori del Barbaresco - ok, but quite frankly I just don't get all this hype about Barolo/ Barbaresco. My loss, obviously. Maybe it needs time.

Hacker wrote:2010 Produttori del Barbaresco - ok, but quite frankly I just don't get all this hype about Barolo/ Barbaresco. My loss, obviously. Maybe it needs time.

I was certainly in your camp there Hacker, never had a grip on the Italian stuff. However, lately I have been exposed to the top-end stuff, Giacosa and the like, they are amazing wines, but over $300 per, even in HK,'….. God only knows what they are in Australia!!!
So at the end of the day, if you want great Italian stuff, you are in super-second Bordeaux or GC Burgundy territory. I guess the old adage, you get what you pay for, applies to Italian wine too!!
Jamie HK is the expert, he might have some good mid-range wines you could try.

Had a 2004 Florita riesling Thursday night, really good. Went pretty well with Korean food too.

2008 LEAS Chardonnay last night. Maybe in an in between phase? The fruit and oak seemed slightly out of whack to me. Still quite good. Amazing length.

Conterno "Conca Tre Pile" Barbera d'Alba 2011... The gentleman at my local wine bar told me this is a good producer and the internet tells me he didn't lie, albeit he didn't mention his pricing for takeaway is pretty much on premise (never mind, I guessed). Very interesting wine, pretty aroma of red fruits, floral notes, some meaty stock cube elements. The palate starts all pretty and juicy, and closes with very firm tannins, good structure. food wine. Will take a bit of age.

2011 Passopisciaro Etna Rosso

First sniff and I thought I had opened a packet of Allens snakes! Lovely bright purple/red colour and good set of legs left on the glass. Fine mouthfeel with solid but discreet tannin following through. Very enjoyable and another 5 put away for a bit longer.

Tonight am enjoying a 2007 Turners Crossing 'The Cut' Shiraz. It is about to go down very well with a standing rib roast.

Decanted 2 hours and that has helped settle down a bit of alcoholic burn that was evident straight out of the bottle. It's a biggish wine at 15% but after decanting it is not overtly alcoholic. Nice fruit, nice structure, maybe a bit too acidic. Tannins starting to soften up nicely. Nice wine, still needs time.