Right, what are we/you drinking now .. tonight

[Sean]

deleted

[Con J]

Seriously nice drinking Con! Hmm, a touch of smoky bacon brett sounds good, albeit more friendly in Nth Rhone, I assume it just overpowered everything else.

Old Rayas is awesome, how I wish Aussie Grenache could try more towards this style...... I'm sure terroir is a big factor, but I suspect the winemaking is equally so.

Seriously nice drinking Con! Hmm, a touch of smoky bacon brett sounds good, albeit more friendly in Nth Rhone, I assume it just overpowered everything else.

Old Rayas is awesome, how I wish Aussie Grenache could try more towards this style...... I'm sure terroir is a big factor, but I suspect the winemaking is equally so.

Often a conversation I have had
How come we can’t do great grenache?
I have a secret soft spot for grenache but I want mote than a fruit bomb
Some CNDP can be most excellent
Many are big sloppy monsters.
Another post perhaps?

I love the wine dinners around Christmas, everyone seems to pull out the good stuff.

I actually like a bit of brett but the Haut Brion just had too much.
The Rayas was put on as the back up for it.

I’ve mentioned before that I’m over CdP but Rayas is special.

Cheers Con.

[Con J]

Christmas function last night.

2002 Krug. Acid, minerals, green apples, lovely.
1996 Krug. Advanced and slightly corked, acid and lacked fruit.
2013 Jean Charton – Chevalier Montrachet “Clos Des Chevaliers”. Tropical fruit, white flowers with a creamy vanilla finish.
2010 Blain Gagnard – Batard Montrachet. Liked it better the Chevalier.
2007 Armand Rousseau – Clos de la Roche. Very pretty from the start.
2001 Armand Rousseau – Clos de la Roche. Bottle stink at first and needed time to open up.
1982 Chateau Haut Brion – Smoky bacon brett, a shame.
2007 Bruno Giacosa – Le Rocche del Lalletto Riserva Barolo. This was absolutely fabulous.
1994 Henschke – Hill of Grace. Very good.
1998 Chateau Rayas – CdP Reserve. Burgundy in disguise, loved it.
1989 Hugel – Tokay Pinot Gris VT. Fresh and vibrant, good acid with time ahead.
2002 Dr Loosen – Bernkasteler Lay Riesling Eiswein. More advanced than the Hugel, good not great.
1970 Dows – Vintage Port. Great way to finish.

Cheers Con.

great drinking, Con!!!
IMO, the Chevalier from Chartron is a better wine than BG's Batard (I own and have tasted both) but drinking a Chevalier at 4 years of age is like drinking a top Bordeaux at 4 years of age. Try it again in another 5-7 years and you will be amazed. Interestingly, I think Chartron's Chevalier is better than his Montrachet (hmmm, maybe, so does he... he always draws a skull and x-bones on his Chevalier barrel and seems to take most pride in showing it)
Chartron hit it out of the park in 2014, 15 and the little 16 he produced. His renovated winery is a beauty, and the quality has improved incredibly over the past 3 vintages.

HI Felix.

I thought the Chevalier was a fabulous wine that just needs more time in the cellar. But no one I know is confident in cellaring white Burgundy. The guy that put this wine on said that the 2015 is nearly double the price that he paid for the 2013.

I don’t buy white burgundy these days. I’ve been scared off by premox and price for the risk.

Cheers Con.

[Con J]

Tony

I had the 2007 Asili Riserva a few months ago and it was magnificent but will be better in 5 years with a long maturation plateau.

Falletto Riserva is a bit like Monfortino. It will outlive us all and I suggest keep an eye on beserkers forum or cellartracker to catch a long window- in about 10 years but !

Haven't had the 2004 from memory. Had magnums of 90's vintages I didn't feel ready three years back.

Jamie - thanks. I will have to keep my hands off them for some time yet. I bought them at different times on sale at Ponti and unfortunately I didn't buy any of the 2007 Barbaresco Asili Riserva which was also on promo at 18% discount. I am not sure if I would want to pay the prices that any of the Bruno Giacosa current releases are demanding.

Hi Tony.

Agree with Jamie, these need a lot more time in the cellar but drink well with a very long decant.
The 04 was one of my wines of the year in 2016, the 07 will definitely be in this years list.

Cheers Con.

[felixp21]

Cellaring White Burgundy?? haha, too true Con. Premox makes it simply too expensive to purchase and cellar the great stuff.
However, as you might have noted, Chartron uses synthetic corks, even for his GC's.

[felixp21]

2015 Hudelot-Baillet Chambolle Musigny 1er Cru "Les Charmes"
a small producer, not even sure if it comes into Australia. This wine is a great showcase for the vintage. This wine is powerful, lifted, yet exhibits extraordinary elegance. Quite dark-fruited for a Chambolle, lots of roses and earth on the nose, and the palate is a kaleidoscope of dark cherry, plum, anise and cassis. Beautiful mouthfeel and stunning length. I just re-ordered another case, as these are going down far too easily. Like just about all 2015's, this is completely accessible now, drinking "on the fruit" as the French say, and should remain open for another year or two. Absolutely super wine. 94pts Drink: 2022-2035

[JamieBahrain]

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Magnum of 2000 Ornellaia Bolgheri was beautifully polished and crafted, long and svelte though lacking fruit intensity suggesting a drink up.

And a beautiful claret in a sweet spot.




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Wow ! How good is old PX?

[felixp21]

Christmas function last night:

Moet and Chandon Brut NV bleh, commercial battery acid. At this level, there are a myriad of Grower Champagnes that offer miles better quality. Not a great start. 83pts drink now.

2010 Coche-Dury Meursault Perrieres flint and citrus, bit of smoke. Good length, although not quite as long as I would have hoped. Little bit worked, but still a lovely wine. Needs another 3-4 years to reach it's peak. 91pts drink 2020-2030

2005 Domaine Leflaive Chevalier Montrachet tropical fruits and butter. Nice touch of bitterness at the end, great length. I would have picked this as Meursault if blind. Much better then the Coche. 95pts drink now-2030.
I have had two Leflaives 6+ years in a row that are not pre-moxed, surely a minor miracle!!!

2005 Perrot-Minot Chambertin Clos de Beze still an infant (like most 05's) this has masses of tannin but now it is easier to see the quality of the underlying fruit, which is simply superb. Bit of a waste to open now, but should be amazing in another decade. One of the 2005's I feel confident will evlove into something really special. 94+++ drink: 2030-2045

2000 Lynch Bages never been a fan of this wine. This continues those thoughts, a wine that is a little dilute and has a rather drying finish. Once again, I get the faint smell of vomit on the nose, not really what you want in a good Bordeaux. This has always been a polarising wine, and it is easy to see why. 88pts drink: now-2030

then there was some Port floating around, but i had to leave early and after a quick sip I forgot to check the label. Was pretty nice!!!

[michel]

Christmas function last night:

Moet and Chandon Brut NV bleh, commercial battery acid. At this level, there are a myriad of Grower Champagnes that offer miles better quality. Not a great start. 83pts drink now.

2010 Coche-Dury Meursault Perrieres flint and citrus, bit of smoke. Good length, although not quite as long as I would have hoped. Little bit worked, but still a lovely wine. Needs another 3-4 years to reach it's peak. 91pts drink 2020-2030

2005 Domaine Leflaive Chevalier Montrachet tropical fruits and butter. Nice touch of bitterness at the end, great length. I would have picked this as Meursault if blind. Much better then the Coche. 95pts drink now-2030.
I have had two Leflaives 6+ years in a row that are not pre-moxed, surely a minor miracle!!!

Perrot-Minot Chambertin Clos de Beze still an infant (like most 05's) this has masses of tannin but now it is easier to see the quality of the underlying fruit, which is simply superb. Bit of a waste to open now, but should be amazing in another decade. One of the 2005's I feel confident will evlove into something really special. 94+++ drink: 2030-2045

2000 Lynch Bages never been a fan of this wine. This continues those thoughts, a wine that is a little dilute and has a rather drying finish. Once again, I get the faint smell of vomit on the nose, not really what you want in a good Bordeaux. This has always been a polarising wine, and it is easy to see why. 88pts drink: now-2030

then there was some Port floating around, but i had to leave early and after a quick sip I forgot to check the label. Was pretty nice!!!

Had some tidy Perrot-Minot reds since 2008
And
If the cork Gods are with you then Leflaive is truly special..

[swirler]

Christmas function last night:

Moet and Chandon Brut NV bleh, commercial battery acid. At this level, there are a myriad of Grower Champagnes that offer miles better quality. Not a great start. 83pts drink now.

Sub-$50? Examples?

[felixp21]

Christmas function last night:

Moet and Chandon Brut NV bleh, commercial battery acid. At this level, there are a myriad of Grower Champagnes that offer miles better quality. Not a great start. 83pts drink now.

Sub-$50? Examples?

sorry, I am not really that sure what is available down there wrt grower champagne. Up here, i could nominate scores that are cheaper than Moet NV here, therefore I presume the same applies down there. For me, Guilleminot NV Prestige ($35AUD in HK) is simply outstanding, and if it is available in Aus, jump in!!

[Mike Hawkins]

Christmas function last night:

Moet and Chandon Brut NV bleh, commercial battery acid. At this level, there are a myriad of Grower Champagnes that offer miles better quality. Not a great start. 83pts drink now.

Sub-$50? Examples?

Gimonnet
Pol Roger
Roederer
Piper

All are streets in front of Moet

[swirler]

Gimonnet is the only grower there, Mike. Their NV is usually priced around $70 (although one place seems to have good prices on Gimonnet ATM.)

As I said, not much/no grower champagne for less than $50 in Australia.

Of those GMs only Piper is priced similarly to Moet. I agree that it is better.

Felix,
Have you heard of Google or wine-searcher?

[cuttlefish]

Christmas function last night:

Moet and Chandon Brut NV bleh, commercial battery acid. At this level, there are a myriad of Grower Champagnes that offer miles better quality. Not a great start. 83pts drink now.

Sub-$50? Examples?

Gimonnet
Pol Roger
Roederer
Piper

All are streets in front of Moet

Moet is appalling in its lack of bottle fermented character. Total rip off.

[swirler]

What do you mean, Cuttlefish?

[deejay81]

Contrary to the Moet NV bashing, I've had a number of 3-5 year bottle aged Moet's that have been quite delicious....

[swirler]

Most experts and champagne fanatics I've heard have said that it's remarkably good for the price and the huge volumes produced. A bit like Guigal CdR. Nobody is claiming it is awesome, though! Just decent for the money.

And if it's too acid for you, Felix, just cellar it a few years like DJ.

[Scotty vino]

Mitolo 2010 GAM. Little beat of heat here. the ALC% was around 15% from memory.
cherry,choc with some restrained some oak. tannins fairly firm and focussed.
Some nice depth/weight to this wine and i think it fits the mold for a stereotypical mac vale shiraz.
Its still holding up well (screw cap) and has a few more years in the tank but I kinda like the spot it's in right now.

[felixp21]

2008 Tattinger Artist Collection Sebastio Selgado
wowser!!! I am not usually a big fan of what I consider the gimmicky Champagne releases, but this is a truly stunning wine. Awesome mouth-feel, length and complexity, this needs another 3-5 years in a cool cellar by which time this will be monumental. I am a huge fan of the 2006 Comtes, but I think this just shades it. Amazing.
drink: 2020-2030 95 pts

[felixp21]

Most experts and champagne fanatics I've heard have said that it's remarkably good for the price and the huge volumes produced. A bit like Guigal CdR. Nobody is claiming it is awesome, though! Just decent for the money.

And if it's too acid for you, Felix, just cellar it a few years like DJ.

would never even consider buying it, let alone cellaring it. Too many good Champagnes out there
Not sure i would call myself a fanatic, but I do travel to Champagne twice a year and purchase 300 dozen commercially... I'm certain the Moet NV would be pretty close to bottom of the list of several thousand. The higher-tier stuff from Moet, however, can be superb. Rightly enough, Gouez is usually rather reluctant to talk about the quality of the NV, other than to stress it is his "base wine" hehe

[felixp21]

Gimonnet is the only grower there, Mike. Their NV is usually priced around $70 (although one place seems to have good prices on Gimonnet ATM.)

As I said, not much/no grower champagne for less than $50 in Australia.

Of those GMs only Piper is priced similarly to Moet. I agree that it is better.

Felix,
Have you heard of Google or wine-searcher?

and while we are at it, Roederer own all the vineyards they use, and are considered by the locals as pretty much the original "grower" Champagne.
in addition, Pol Roger own more than half the vineyards used, so I guess they are "semi-grower"
wouldn't know about Piper, don't go there but like their stuff.

[JamieBahrain]

Magnum of John Riddoch 98- blocky though aeration brought out violet like complexities.

Magnum of Montille Les Rugiens Pommard 98- so much understated class but will only ever be a good ordinary footballer in Aussie parlance.

Magnum of CNP Beaucastel 2005- Wow! This is starting to show. The balance is stand-out. No heat which often plagues so called balanced GSM's in Australia.

[cuttlefish]

What do you mean, Cuttlefish?

To be clear, I was referring to the NV Brut Imperial. Have you tasted the stuff out in the market right now ? Pretty much entirely fruit driven with no discernible complexity from bottle ferment characters like the bready/doughy/biscuity notes. It’s like they’ve somehow managed the entire process of “time on lees” without deriving any of the nice characters that should come from said process.
It’s just my opinion.

[Mike Hawkins]

Gimonnet is the only grower there, Mike. Their NV is usually priced around $70 (although one place seems to have good prices on Gimonnet ATM.)

As I said, not much/no grower champagne for less than $50 in Australia.

Of those GMs only Piper is priced similarly to Moet. I agree that it is better.

Felix,
Have you heard of Google or wine-searcher?

A number of the growers have become more expensive in recent times. Some ... eg Gimonnet... used to imported by the retailer, therein bypassing a profit centre. Others become more established brands and consequently prices moved ... eg Bonville. For others, I just don’t understand the NV pricing, especially as I know the CD prices (most of these of these are sub EUR 18 including French taxes which wouldn’t be paid by the importer), notwithstanding importation costs and WET etc.

[Mike Hawkins]

2008 Tattinger Artist Collection Sebastio Selgado
wowser!!! I am not usually a big fan of what I consider the gimmicky Champagne releases, but this is a truly stunning wine. Awesome mouth-feel, length and complexity, this needs another 3-5 years in a cool cellar by which time this will be monumental. I am a huge fan of the 2006 Comtes, but I think this just shades it. Amazing.
drink: 2020-2030 95 pts

Wait till you try the 08 Comtes Felix. It destroys anything I’ve had from Taittinger ...... and Comtes is probably my favourite wine on the planet.

[Mike Hawkins]

Contrary to the Moet NV bashing, I've had a number of 3-5 year bottle aged Moet's that have been quite delicious....

It’s certainly not undrinkable for my tastes, but I think there are some larg-ish production labels that are better. I agree that 2 or 3 years cellaring improves it

[michel]

2008 Tattinger Artist Collection Sebastio Selgado
wowser!!! I am not usually a big fan of what I consider the gimmicky Champagne releases, but this is a truly stunning wine. Awesome mouth-feel, length and complexity, this needs another 3-5 years in a cool cellar by which time this will be monumental. I am a huge fan of the 2006 Comtes, but I think this just shades it. Amazing.
drink: 2020-2030 95 pts

Wait till you try the 08 Comtes Felix. It destroys anything I’ve had from Taittinger ...... and Comtes is probably my favourite wine on the planet.

What’s the 06 Comtes like?
Pretty sure i see one at my local....

[felixp21]

Moet et Chandon NV Rose
sitting in the Cathay first lounge in HK awaiting flight home to Melb for Xmas, thought i would have a look at this again, given the recent chatter here. Not bad, miles better than the NV, drinkable with good strawberry and chalk. Decent length. 88pts.

[swirler]

06 Comte is really good. Moet x10,000 I gotta try the 08.

Mike,
Things were better a few years back. Definitely was a time to stock up

Cuttlefish,
Some would say that a lack of lees derived character isn't a bad thing if you are seeking terroir in wines. Although there's not much terroir in Moet

[michel]

06 Comte is really good. Moet x10,000 I gotta try the 08.

Mike,
Things were better a few years back. Definitely was a time to stock up

Cuttlefish,
Some would say that a lack of lees derived character isn't a bad thing if you are seeking terroir in wines. Although there's not much terroir in Moet

Ta
My mate is obsessed with b&b
Champagne
Will try one
2005 Bollinger Grande Annee recently looks awesome