Name 5 albums ... CD's for you youngies, that 'changed your life', and why.
Which 5 pieces of music stopped you in your tracks, changed your life, your listening habits
All at once, or post one per day!
Over to you!
Me 1) Van Morrison Astral Weeks ... changed my idea of what music could be, opened my eyes, and then made me a lifelong Van Morrison fan. Van the Man wonderful!
.
Snap on Astral Weeks. Turned my head about 40 years ago. Others (giving away my age):
Pink Floyd. Pulse live album is my desert island album.
Bob Dylan. We share birthdays but not year. His earlier stuff is fantastic. Latest stuff is embarrassing as are his live performances (why does he do it?). His record company forced him to make an album recently so he recorded the classic Christmas songs. It's on Youtube. Worth a laugh.
Emmylou Harris.
Mark Knoplfer. His post Dire Straits solo music
Annie Lennox. What a beautiful husky voice. Swoon
10CC
ACDC
Crosby Stills Nash and Young
David Gilmour solo stuff. Coolest dude I know.
Donovan
ELO
Fleetwood Mac
JJ Cale
Lou Reed. 2nd coolest dude I know.
Janis Joplin
Joe Cocker
Supertramp
Mike Oldfield. He did some good stuff post Tubular Bells
Bob Marley.
Spotify has allowed me to revisit some of this great music I had forgotten. Yes, I am a survivor the 60s and 70s. Those were the days.
Carl
Your worst game of golf is better than your best day at work
dave vino wrote:Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms - Polished, precise, great songs, there was just something about it that grabbed me, the ability of it to have you tapping your toes/fingers while listening to it.
U2 - Joshua Tree - Atmospheric, moody, dark, I loved the postitve angst in their songs, the Edges guitar riffs the euphoric wailing from Bono.
Midnight Oil - Diesel and Dust - syncopatic, throbbing beats, lyrics with meaning and telling stories. Leading to air drumming every time.
Vangelis - Chariots of Fire - How music can fundamentally change and create senses of emotion and feeling in perfect harmony to what is happening on the screen. No dialogue required, the music talks.
Cold Chisel - Radio Songs - The ultimate good times with mates, singing along, shoulder to shoulder, invariably drunk, nothing technical just good, easy to enjoy music.
I saw U2 in NY on their Joshua Tree tour last year. Probably the best album of the 80s
Mike Hawkins wrote:Thanks for your post Chuck... reminds me I’m due to watch the Pulse DVD again
I think Delicate Sound of Thunder has a certain something that Pulse lacks. Don’t get me wrong, epic concerts both, and similar in many ways. But I’m still mystified why DSOT (VHS only I think) was basically discontinued once the Pulse DVD showed up. Great Gig in the Sky on DSOT is truly spine tingling, pulse version and as a whole just seems a little soulless and slick in comparison.
Mike Hawkins wrote:Thanks for your post Chuck... reminds me I’m due to watch the Pulse DVD again
I think Delicate Sound of Thunder has a certain something that Pulse lacks. Don’t get me wrong, epic concerts both, and similar in many ways. But I’m still mystified why DSOT (VHS only I think) was basically discontinued once the Pulse DVD showed up. Great Gig in the Sky on DSOT is truly spine tingling, pulse version and as a whole just seems a little soulless and slick in comparison.
Mike Hawkins wrote:Thanks for your post Chuck... reminds me I’m due to watch the Pulse DVD again
Live at Pompeii is pretty awesome too. I think Pulse is slightly better as it's a double album with more songs and the last 5 tracks - Brain Damage, Eclipse, Wish You Were Here, Comfortably Numb and Run Like Hell are electrifying. You feel almost exhausted afterwards.
Carl
Your worst game of golf is better than your best day at work
Chuck wrote:
Bob Dylan. We share birthdays but not year. His earlier stuff is fantastic. Latest stuff is embarrassing as are his live performances (why does he do it?). His record company forced him to make an album recently so he recorded the classic Christmas songs. It's on Youtube. Worth a laugh.
Agreed a lot of albums probably post Street Legal weren't great but the Modern Times album in 2006 was excellent and the follow up Together Through Life though not quite as good was still worth a listen.
Gavin,
A distracting topic and a bit of fun. Timely for me as I have just spent a small shedload upgrading my sound system, I have had one (or more) since making amplifiers and speakers as a teenager in Adl in the 70's.
Anyway, stuff that gets played a bit here includes a range of jazz, some blues and a smattering of classical with some rock thrown in for good measure. Adl based Zep Boys (happen to know Vince, the lead vocalist) has rekindled an interest in Zeppelin. Back to jazz, a fair bit of Miles, been enjoying some very high quality recording of Dave Brubeck in the last few weeks, Keith Jarrett, Herbie Hancock. Love Acca Dacca, speaking of which, who remembers Fraternity? Enjoy the Sydney outfit the Foreday Riders, who have been around for yonks, some Pat Metheny, Frank Zappa (jumping around a bit atm), lots of good ol' Aussie blues/rock outfits, Phil Manning/Matt Taylor, went to see Canned Heat a month go, what a blast.
Five albums that stick out for me or have changed things:
Beatles - Abbey Road (or many others, their music writing was just outstanding)
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Keith Jarrett - Koln Concert
Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out (try keeping time to some of those time signatures)
Carson - Blown
Honourable mention to
Fleetwood Mac - Pious Bird of Good Omen
cheers, Malcolm
veni, vidi, bibi also on twitter @m_j_short and instagram m_j_short
mjs wrote:Gavin,
A distracting topic and a bit of fun. Timely for me as I have just spent a small shedload upgrading my sound system, I have had one (or more) since making amplifiers and speakers as a teenager in Adl in the 70's.
Anyway, stuff that gets played a bit here includes a range of jazz, some blues and a smattering of classical with some rock thrown in for good measure. Adl based Zep Boys (happen to know Vince, the lead vocalist) has rekindled an interest in Zeppelin. Back to jazz, a fair bit of Miles, been enjoying some very high quality recording of Dave Brubeck in the last few weeks, Keith Jarrett, Herbie Hancock. Love Acca Dacca, speaking of which, who remembers Fraternity? Enjoy the Sydney outfit the Foreday Riders, who have been around for yonks, some Pat Metheny, Frank Zappa (jumping around a bit atm), lots of good ol' Aussie blues/rock outfits, Phil Manning/Matt Taylor, went to see Canned Heat a month go, what a blast.
Five albums that stick out for me or have changed things:
Beatles - Abbey Road (or many others, their music writing was just outstanding)
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Keith Jarrett - Koln Concert
Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out (try keeping time to some of those time signatures)
Carson - Blown
Honourable mention to
Fleetwood Mac - Pious Bird of Good Omen
cheers, Malcolm
I'd echo the first four of those albums, and replace Carson with Pink Floyd - Dark side of the moon.
mjs wrote: went to see Canned Heat a month go, what a blast.
I saw Canned Heat was down for the Byron Bay Blues Festival. Sadly I missed their sideshows but thoroughly enjoyed them a long time ago. Having purchased a new turntable two years ago, I have enjoyed playing two of their albums I had tucked away, one with John Lee Hooker and the other a live album with the immortal line; "I don't need the machine, I am already in the fog"
mjs wrote:
Honourable mention to
Fleetwood Mac - Pious Bird of Good Omen
cheers, Malcolm
And now you have mentioned this wee masterpiece, it is another album I should dig out and listen to again. It's filed with Traffic (Low Heel Spark and Live at the Canteen), Cream and Derek and the Dominos - sort of same genre.
Mike Hawkins wrote:Thanks for your post Chuck... reminds me I’m due to watch the Pulse DVD again
I think Delicate Sound of Thunder has a certain something that Pulse lacks. Don’t get me wrong, epic concerts both, and similar in many ways. But I’m still mystified why DSOT (VHS only I think) was basically discontinued once the Pulse DVD showed up. Great Gig in the Sky on DSOT is truly spine tingling, pulse version and as a whole just seems a little soulless and slick in comparison.
I remember seeing DSoT at the Sydney Entertainment Centre (well it wasn't called DSoT at the time), it was one of the first concerts that really used special effects to great effect. We were dumbstruck with all the stuff that was going on. Then you go back to Inxs, Kick and Crowded house Temple of Low Men at the State Theatre where it was just the band on stage and not much else.
Mike Hawkins wrote:Thanks for your post Chuck... reminds me I’m due to watch the Pulse DVD again
I think Delicate Sound of Thunder has a certain something that Pulse lacks. Don’t get me wrong, epic concerts both, and similar in many ways. But I’m still mystified why DSOT (VHS only I think) was basically discontinued once the Pulse DVD showed up. Great Gig in the Sky on DSOT is truly spine tingling, pulse version and as a whole just seems a little soulless and slick in comparison.
I remember seeing DSoT at the Sydney Entertainment Centre (well it wasn't called DSoT at the time), it was one of the first concerts that really used special effects to great effect. We were dumbstruck with all the stuff that was going on. Then you go back to Inxs, Kick and Crowded house Temple of Low Men at the State Theatre where it was just the band on stage and not much else.
my kind of gig. You can keep your lasers and flying sharks.
Seeing Glenn Richards of Augie March solo in the Spiegeltent at the Ade fringe was one of my most memorable shows.
50-60 people sit down show table & bottle red style. Brilliant. Could hear a pin drop.
As a muso/performer I supported Josh Pyke once in small setting and he was very engaging and played an amazing set.
Legend of a bloke too.
Wishlist is seeing Damien Rice in a similar kinda setting. He can hold an entire room with his pinky finger.
and I'll +1 Miles Davis Kind of blue. A buddy of mine was a jazz grad and he said I dont care what your thoughts are on Jazz you must own this album. It's my number 1 sunday morning choice of music. Often hear it filtering out of a back room in a few cellar doors....
There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.
Yeah small intimate gigs are fantastic, and I’d rather them than an arena, but I wouldn’t like to be so close minded as to say big stadium events (when at their very best like Pink Floyd, Muse, AC/DC etc) have no musical merit and rely on gimmicks to be successful. It’s not like lasers or pigs steal the show in PF’s case, it’s the music that drives the concert, the rest is just icing.
Close your eyes, it’s all about the music either way.
Wow fair bit going on in this thread and guess my moniker gives it away...after hearing that cow bell in 1976 and singing gimme gimme gimme the honky tonk blues, I was hooked. Stunning to see 4 blokes approaching or over the crest of 70 at Adelaide Oval in 2014 with 65 000 others.
Agree with Pink Floyd...seeing them at Thebby Oval in the early 90s in a hooch haze, yes I inhaled copiously...after parking the car outside the West Thebby pub on Sth Rd, akin now to leaving your car on the Tullamarine freeway at 5 PM...and having a dozen schooners in the front bar...what a show!
Whilst many bang on about DSOTM and WYWH, for me Animals and The Wall are far and away my favourites...I can listen to Sheep all day and the opening 60 seconds of Run like Hell always amazes.
Ah music choices very eclectic like most here, here is a bit of a list,
David Bowie...Station to Station in the drug fuelled year of 76, my first ever vinyl purchase, just shades Diamond Dogs as Bowie's best, the title track is 11 minutes of pace, tempo and mania...Vale.
Most of the stuff by the The Who
Kate Bush, to have a voice like that at 16, The Kick Inside seminal album
Peter Gabriel, always preferred him to Phil Collins...second chorus of sledgehammer is an epiphany
Simply Minds, Human League, Duran Duran...the 80s UK invasion, The Police...bring on the night, hypnotic!
Stones of course, Exile and Beggars Banquet best for me, but love Goats Head Soup, Emotional Rescue and Sticky Fingers, Still Life, their 1981 live album of Nth America and the 1977 Love You Live tour through Canada and the US
Robert Plant and LZ, Physical Graffitti and 4 ( I listen to it once a week) solo stuff in the early 80s fabulous, Raising Sands with Alison Krauss just brilliant. Went to see him at Thebby Theatre with the Sensational Space Shifters last month...bloody amazing voice and such a tight unit.
Beatles, A Day in the Life...Nothing else for me comes close and Lennon's Instant Karma
U2, Desire, The Fly, Elevation and Vertigo should be released as an EP
Somebody mentioned Supertramp Crime of the Century...wow!!
Debbie Harry, like the last time Bowie toured and Robert Plant for that matter, still has a voice in her late 60s, sultry Atomic makes me tingly, Union City Blues...all her stuff
Pat Benatar, Madonna, Prince, Kiss ( Destroyer a favourite, ashamed to say I really liked them)...Van Halen, before Sammy Haggar, Jim Morrison, LA Woman, what a song, what an album. Lou Reed, Iggy Pop and the Velvet Underground. Eagles Long Run, Eddy Cochrane, Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Nicks solo stuff
Tom Petty, another great gone, saw him just a few years ago...running down a dream now I guess.
Jackson Brown, Bruce Springsteen, B52's for a bit of fun...great live.
Hoodoo Gurus, last year at The Gov, what a show, Midnight Oil The great circle tour last year..brilliant, Flinders Uni bar in the 80s just surreal!
Aussie Crawl, Dragon, Mondo Rock all on the same bill at Bombay Rock in the 80s at Surfers...ahh those were the days
Skyhooks...Balwyn Callin'
Five favourite albums...you would have to be joking...maybe
Station to Station
Led Zep 4
Beggars Banquet
The Whole Story
The Wall.
my kind of gig. You can keep your lasers and flying sharks.
Seeing Glenn Richards of Augie March solo in the Spiegeltent at the Ade fringe was one of my most memorable shows.
50-60 people sit down show table & bottle red style. Brilliant. Could hear a pin drop.
As a muso/performer I supported Josh Pyke once in small setting and he was very engaging and played an amazing set.
Legend of a bloke too.
Wishlist is seeing Damien Rice in a similar kinda setting. He can hold an entire room with his pinky finger.
and I'll +1 Miles Davis Kind of blue. A buddy of mine was a jazz grad and he said I dont care what your thoughts are on Jazz you must own this album. It's my number 1 sunday morning choice of music. Often hear it filtering out of a back room in a few cellar doors....
I'm with you on the smaller gigs nowadays. I will do the Stones or Springsteen in a large venue but my ideal venue is the Enmore, the Factory or now, after last month, the Leadbelly in Sydney. The overwhelming majority of the music we listen to is a variation of Americana/blues based. On Jazz since buying the new turntable I have picked up a ton of Coltrane and Muddy Waters/Albert King on the Blues side.
Can't do Brit pop and reading the posts above, I am amazed at how many people still listen to Pink Floyd. About the only album I can still listen to is Wish You Were Here. For me, the trouble with the likes of Dark Side of the Moon is it has just been played to death.
phillisc wrote:
Robert Plant, Raising Sands with Alison Krauss just brilliant. Went to see him at Thebby Theatre with the Sensational Space Shifters last month...bloody amazing voice and such a tight unit.
For anyone who hasn't heard it, this is a superb album, seductively cruisey. It is a complete shock to think its Robert Plant. I really wanted to see the shows last month with the Sensational Space Shifters but could not get Ms Rooman to agree. I thought it would be brilliant.
phillisc wrote:
Whilst many bang on about DSOTM and WYWH, for me Animals and The Wall are far and away my favourites...I can listen to Sheep all day and the opening 60 seconds of Run like Hell always amazes.
Craig
Animals is one of their most under rated albums. I've always loved it. The Wall is finally growing on me. I prefer the Gilmour stuff as I have never really liked Roger Water's style. Too abrasive IMO. He is like a shock jock trying to scream for your attention. Gilmour is more soft rock and oh so cool. I suppose Waters needed to differentiate himself after Gilmour was brought on after Syd Barrett took one too many meds. Waters always believe it was his band and it would fold after he left in a huff. And it didn't going from strength to strength under Gilmour's guidance.
Carl
Your worst game of golf is better than your best day at work
Saw her in Castlemaine the other week at the Theatre Royal, great venue and gig...The Teskey Bro's are paying there on Thursday but left my run late and is all sold out , may have to sit in the bar and enjoy as background noise...
Queen first and foremost, saw them for the second time with Lambert back in Feb - great show - not as good as Freddie when I saw him in 86 but still a magical night. Really looking forward to the movie in November.
Other than that most rock / metal and even a bit of Jazz thrown in. Other gigs this year included Steel Panther & NOFX and at the other end of the Spectrum going to see Suzanne Vega next month.
Saw her in Castlemaine the other week at the Theatre Royal, great venue and gig...The Teskey Bro's are paying there on Thursday but left my run late and is all sold out , may have to sit in the bar and enjoy as background noise...
Ah there is hope still for my fellow forumites - music from the 21st century. Eilen would have been superb somewhere like the Theatre Royal. I tried to get a friend of mine who plays in a Zydeco band to get there from Kyneton but the tickets sold out - not dissimilar music styles. We have seen her three times now over the past 2-3 years, once supporting Lucinda Williams (awesome female artist) and once with Jason Isbell ex Drive By Truckers. Have you managed to see any of Jason Isbell's shows? Jason, Eilen and Justin Townes Earle (son of Steve Earle) are all part of a new renascence of Alt Country/Americana music. The other big act of this genre is Nathaniel Rateliff & the Night Sweats who we have played all weekend on the new TV which comes with Youtube
phillisc wrote:
Whilst many bang on about DSOTM and WYWH, for me Animals and The Wall are far and away my favourites...I can listen to Sheep all day and the opening 60 seconds of Run like Hell always amazes.
Craig
Animals is one of their most under rated albums. I've always loved it. The Wall is finally growing on me. I prefer the Gilmour stuff as I have never really liked Roger Water's style. Too abrasive IMO. He is like a shock jock trying to scream for your attention. Gilmour is more soft rock and oh so cool. I suppose Waters needed to differentiate himself after Gilmour was brought on after Syd Barrett took one too many meds. Waters always believe it was his band and it would fold after he left in a huff. And it didn't going from strength to strength under Gilmour's guidance.
Carl
Carl, agree with your take , but that's what I like about it..."you can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat." Waters screaming stand still laddie.
That said the most underrated album which I have overlooked, confirms what you suggest. A Momentary Lapse of Reason certainly swung towards a more mellow style, but still love the crescendo of the second half of One Slip...loud and brash, but silky at the same time.
Mark, people have been listening to Floyd for 50 years and most likely will listen to it for another 50 or more...whilst they were British, they are so different to the Stones, Beatles, Kinks, LZ, The Who, Clapton, Queen etc. I reckon that Floyd have them all covered, the big ballads, the long epistles, the quirky tracks. There is simply nothing like it past or present...living with two 20 somethings, I am getting a taste for the presets, the wombats, Florence and the Machine all sorts of stuff...played them Great gig in the Sky..."we never heard anything like that."
phillisc wrote:
Whilst many bang on about DSOTM and WYWH, for me Animals and The Wall are far and away my favourites...I can listen to Sheep all day and the opening 60 seconds of Run like Hell always amazes.
Craig
Animals is one of their most under rated albums. I've always loved it. The Wall is finally growing on me. I prefer the Gilmour stuff as I have never really liked Roger Water's style. Too abrasive IMO. He is like a shock jock trying to scream for your attention. Gilmour is more soft rock and oh so cool. I suppose Waters needed to differentiate himself after Gilmour was brought on after Syd Barrett took one too many meds. Waters always believe it was his band and it would fold after he left in a huff. And it didn't going from strength to strength under Gilmour's guidance.
Carl
Carl, agree with your take , but that's what I like about it..."you can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat." Waters screaming stand still laddie.
That said the most underrated album which I have overlooked, confirms what you suggest. A Momentary Lapse of Reason certainly swung towards a more mellow style, but still love the crescendo of the second half of One Slip...loud and brash, but silky at the same time.
Mark, people have been listening to Floyd for 50 years and most likely will listen to it for another 50 or more...whilst they were British, they are so different to the Stones, Beatles, Kinks, LZ, The Who, Clapton, Queen etc. I reckon that Floyd have them all covered, the big ballads, the long epistles, the quirky tracks. There is simply nothing like it past or present...living with two 20 somethings, I am getting a taste for the presets, the wombats, Florence and the Machine all sorts of stuff...played them Great gig in the Sky..."we never heard anything like that."
Cheers
Craig
I love the Floyd... definitely my favourite prog rock band (yes, I know, many say they weren’t prog rock but I disagree). However, I would take the Beatles, Kinks (the most underrated ‘influential’ band IMO) and Stones over them.
phillisc wrote:
Mark, people have been listening to Floyd for 50 years and most likely will listen to it for another 50 or more...whilst they were British, they are so different to the Stones, Beatles, Kinks, LZ, The Who, Clapton, Queen etc. I reckon that Floyd have them all covered, the big ballads, the long epistles, the quirky tracks. There is simply nothing like it past or present...living with two 20 somethings, I am getting a taste for the presets, the wombats, Florence and the Machine all sorts of stuff...played them Great gig in the Sky..."we never heard anything like that."
Cheers
Craig
Craig
I get how long people have been listening to Pink Floyd; lawd knows I thrashed Dark Side of the Moon to death. But the question to my mind is could I listen to it today and the answer to that is no. Truth be told I can't really listen to any prog rock anymore. Emerson Lake and Palmer, Yes (who I hated even back in the 70s) and Pink Floyd all fall into the same category. I also doubt I could listen to Wishbone Ash or Black Sabbath all of which I also owned (and probably still do somewhere) at the same time. I did try playing some of my old Genesis albums recently including Foxtrot and the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway but only lasted one track.
What is interesting from my perspective is that as the kids have started to learn instruments, they have home and rekindled my interest in music I last listened to thirty years ago including LZ, Cream, Muddy Water, even Deep Purple. It has also got me listening to old school blues again with a passion. I am the first to admit that 40 years ago, Pink Floyd was groundbreaking but nowadays to listen to an entire album of Pink Floyd is just a bridge too far.
I get how long people have been listening to Pink Floyd; lawd knows I thrashed Dark Side of the Moon to death. But the question to my mind is could I listen to it today and the answer to that is no. Truth be told I can't really listen to any prog rock anymore. Emerson Lake and Palmer, Yes (who I hated even back in the 70s) and Pink Floyd all fall into the same category. I also doubt I could listen to Wishbone Ash or Black Sabbath all of which I also owned (and probably still do somewhere) at the same time. I did try playing some of my old Genesis albums recently including Foxtrot and the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway but only lasted one track.
What is interesting from my perspective is that as the kids have started to learn instruments, they have home and rekindled my interest in music I last listened to thirty years ago including LZ, Cream, Muddy Water, even Deep Purple. It has also got me listening to old school blues again with a passion. I am the first to admit that 40 years ago, Pink Floyd was groundbreaking but nowadays to listen to an entire album of Pink Floyd is just a bridge too far.
Mark
You obviously didn't see Roger Waters when he toured Australia earlier this year. Brilliant!
DMB just released their first album for 6 years and, as was the case with their last 6 albums, it will debut at #1 spot on the Billboard Hot 100 Albums chart.
I admit there aren't many DMB fans in Australia, but these guys are awesome musicians.
I get how long people have been listening to Pink Floyd; lawd knows I thrashed Dark Side of the Moon to death. But the question to my mind is could I listen to it today and the answer to that is no. Truth be told I can't really listen to any prog rock anymore. Emerson Lake and Palmer, Yes (who I hated even back in the 70s) and Pink Floyd all fall into the same category. I also doubt I could listen to Wishbone Ash or Black Sabbath all of which I also owned (and probably still do somewhere) at the same time. I did try playing some of my old Genesis albums recently including Foxtrot and the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway but only lasted one track.
What is interesting from my perspective is that as the kids have started to learn instruments, they have home and rekindled my interest in music I last listened to thirty years ago including LZ, Cream, Muddy Water, even Deep Purple. It has also got me listening to old school blues again with a passion. I am the first to admit that 40 years ago, Pink Floyd was groundbreaking but nowadays to listen to an entire album of Pink Floyd is just a bridge too far.
Mark
You obviously didn't see Roger Waters when he toured Australia earlier this year. Brilliant!
I'm with rooman on this, loved EL&P, PF, Brand X, and every other permutation, but I struggle with pretentious British prog rock these days
veni, vidi, bibi also on twitter @m_j_short and instagram m_j_short
mjs wrote:
Honourable mention to
Fleetwood Mac - Pious Bird of Good Omen
cheers, Malcolm
And now you have mentioned this wee masterpiece, it is another album I should dig out and listen to again. It's filed with Traffic (Low Heel Spark and Live at the Canteen), Cream and Derek and the Dominos - sort of same genre.
Mark
Low Spark .... what a great album
veni, vidi, bibi also on twitter @m_j_short and instagram m_j_short
, may have to sit in the bar and enjoy as background noise...