The Auswine Forum

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Maybe so Ozzie, but not my cup of tea. Wines that hit 15% alcohol and above are off limits for me, unless they are vermouth, amarone, or something else. A wine that hits the 15% mark usually gets put back on the shelf. I have done it a number of times, especially with Aussie shiraz and GSMs. One time I saw a Schild Estate single vineyard premium wine on sale for half price (this was before their wine scandal) but it was 15% alcohol and I decided to give it a miss. No regrets. Life is too short for high alcohol wines, thank you very much.

Fair enough and more for me!! Standish is one of the few SA wines I buy these days (Marius and Sami ODI) being the others but they are always balanced albeit big. I would love to read your thoughts if you do get to try one

Theporkrail wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Maybe so Ozzie, but not my cup of tea. Wines that hit 15% alcohol and above are off limits for me, unless they are vermouth, amarone, or something else. A wine that hits the 15% mark usually gets put back on the shelf. I have done it a number of times, especially with Aussie shiraz and GSMs. One time I saw a Schild Estate single vineyard premium wine on sale for half price (this was before their wine scandal) but it was 15% alcohol and I decided to give it a miss. No regrets. Life is too short for high alcohol wines, thank you very much.

Fair enough and more for me!! Standish is one of the few SA wines I buy these days (Marius and Sami ODI) being the others but they are always balanced albeit big. I would love to read your thoughts if you do get to try one

I would very much like to try a Standish. It's not that I am unalterably opposed to all high alcohol wines but so many of them, at least in the past, were overblown, sweet, and flabby. Now, it is easier to avoid them than take a chance on cellaring, after all I cannot taste every wine that I cellar. For example, once upon a time I saw some Schild Estate single vineyard Moorooroo shiraz at half price. Upon seeing that it was 15% alcohol I gave it a miss. For less money, at the same store, I was able to pick up Cote-Rotie and Barolo.

Most Standish wines come in around the 14.5% mark, the '16 Relic being an exception, not the rule. Definitely not in the flabby territory, at least none that I've ever encountered. Also, interesting you mention Barolo - the Standish Lamella in particular probably has more in common with Barolo on the palate than it does the prototypical Barossan shiraz.

I can report that the 2017's are excellent. Tried them on Saturday with Dan. As was the case last year, I enjoyed the Lamella (different vineyard this year to last year. Hutton Vale 2017, Stonegarden 2016) and The Standish the most. The Schubert Therom was also excellent as was The Relic. I just enjoyed the other two more. The Standish and The Lamella had been open for 24 hours which probably helped their cause. Dan was talking very highly about the Schubert.

Cheers
Ian

Hmm I just got the email about this. Having tried one at the recent offline I am quite tempted, though given how full my cellar is I might just go for 1 bottle of each.

sjw_11 wrote:Hmm I just got the email about this. Having tried one at the recent offline I am quite tempted, though given how full my cellar is I might just go for 1 bottle of each.

I went for 3 x The Standish and 3 x The Lamella. Both amazing wines.

Cheers
Ian

ticklenow1 wrote:I can report that the 2017's are excellent. Tried them on Saturday with Dan. As was the case last year, I enjoyed the Lamella (different vineyard this year to last year. Hutton Vale 2017, Stonegarden 2016) and The Standish the most. The Schubert Therom was also excellent as was The Relic. I just enjoyed the other two more. The Standish and The Lamella had been open for 24 hours which probably helped their cause. Dan was talking very highly about the Schubert.

Cheers
Ian

The Lamella was from the Hutton Vale vineyard in 2016 and 2017.
Its a stones throw from Henschke Hill Of Grace vineyard.
The 2015 Lamella and 2012 The Standish are from the Stonegarden Vineyard.

Gonna have to visit

Opposite to what I usually drink, but when in Rome and all
Will make a change

I am intrigued by these wines. What is the difference between them? There is barely any information on the Standish site. It seems like the Standish and Schubert come from the same vineyard each year?

There is 4 single vineyard wines.
Schubert Theorum....Roennfeldt Road, Marananga - 100% Shiraz
The Standish..........Laycock Family Vineyard, Parbs Road, Greenock - 100% Shiraz
The Relic..............Hongell Family Vineyard, Krondorf - 98% Shiraz 2% Viognier
Lamella................Hutton Vale Farm, Eden Valley - 100% Shiraz
All are $100 each.

They're all pretty distinct locations & styles. As mentioned previously the Hutton Vale vineyard is a skip & a hop away from the Hill of Grace vineyard, albeit the vines aren't quite as old as HoG. The Schubert Theorem vineyard is also just around the corner from where Torbreck source The Laird, again with the caveat that the vines are a fair bit younger by my understanding. The Schubert Theorem & The Relic are generally the more approachable wines in their youth, although all have the structure to sleep & improve for a while to come.

Isn't Hutton Vale closer to Mt Ed? I recall peddling my bike past there one hot summer's day. Sure seemed a long way from Gnadenberg Rd.

Or perhaps I'm mixed up with Hutton Vale as the previous Mt Ed owners?

I'm pretty sure it's half way between Mt Edelstone & Hill of Grace - Mt Edelstone being south of the Hutton Vale airstrip & Lamella being sourced from the vineyard to the north? I could be mistaken though.

Not just different vineyards. Different wine-making techniques as well.

Schubert Theorem is made from different parcels which are vinified separately, including use of concrete eggs. It's later all combined together.

Ozzie W wrote:Not just different vineyards. Different wine-making techniques as well.

Schubert Theorem is made from different parcels which are vinified separately, including use of concrete eggs. It's later all combined together.

The Schubert Theorem is made from the one vineyard, but it is broken up into different sections and all sections are vinified separately. Dan then does the blend from all the different sections of the vineyard. When you are at the winery you can see all the barrels labeled from where it comes from on the vineyard.

I'm sure that's what Dan said, but happy to be told different.

When it comes to "Barossa" Shiraz, as a benchmark I always bring it back to Rockford, at about $60 per bottle, you tend to know what you get.
Dan's charging $100 a pop, sounds like his consumers are confused over the vineyards etc.
Wondering where does value lie? Or just a gross margin grab by Dan?

Perhaps more pertinent to compare to Rockford SVS wines? Which cost the same years ago!

Matt@5453 wrote:When it comes to "Barossa" Shiraz, as a benchmark I always bring it back to Rockford, at about $60 per bottle, you tend to know what you get.
Dan's charging $100 a pop, sounds like his consumers are confused over the vineyards etc.
Wondering where does value lie? Or just a gross margin grab by Dan?

If you're ever in the region, arrange a tasting with Dan. Best way to get a sense for what he's doing is to chat to the man himself & taste his wines. $100 is a lot to spend - heck, even $65 (or whatever BP currently is) is a lot. That being said, I have far less reservations buying wine from Dan these days than I do Rockford. To my humble palate, Standish wines are on a completely different tier of quality, and priced incredibly fairly for where they fit relative to their peers.

cteague wrote:

Matt@5453 wrote:When it comes to "Barossa" Shiraz, as a benchmark I always bring it back to Rockford, at about $60 per bottle, you tend to know what you get.
Dan's charging $100 a pop, sounds like his consumers are confused over the vineyards etc.
Wondering where does value lie? Or just a gross margin grab by Dan?

If you're ever in the region, arrange a tasting with Dan. Best way to get a sense for what he's doing is to chat to the man himself & taste his wines. $100 is a lot to spend - heck, even $65 (or whatever BP currently is) is a lot. That being said, I have far less reservations buying wine from Dan these days than I do Rockford. To my humble palate, Standish wines are on a completely different tier of quality, and priced incredibly fairly for where they fit relative to their peers.

+1

For me, Standish is at the pinnacle of quality for Barossa shiraz. I can't think of a better quality Barossa Shiraz at any price point.

I guess my original question was about the continuity of a style or expression of an idea between vintages. I gather that the lamella is not from the same vineyard every year. So what is the point? Is it to make this Barolo like wine from barossa shiraz look like another person alluded to? If you took ten vintages of it and put it together what can you expect? I have the same question regarding the other wines. From my research it seems like there were more than four labels in the past? So why four now?

I tremendously admire anyone who can sell out their wines every year while having minimal info on the web.

cteague wrote:

Matt@5453 wrote:To my humble palate, Standish wines are on a completely different tier of quality, and priced incredibly fairly for where they fit relative to their peers.

Specifically about the recent vintages of the lamella, which are from the hutton vale vineyard: the last hutton vale shiraz was 2013, made by Kym Teusner. Rrp is $75. I do wonder what the difference between this, and the lamella is. Is it worth an extra $25?

All other things being identical the price increase from 2013 and 2017 is 7% annually. It doesn’t appear to me to be significantly different to most of the other wineries. It’s just it started at a higher initial price than say Rockford Basket Press.

The 13/14 are current releases from Hutton vale. I value wines that are released later as storage costs me at least $2 a year.

Alex F wrote:I guess my original question was about the continuity of a style or expression of an idea between vintages. I gather that the lamella is not from the same vineyard every year. So what is the point? Is it to make this Barolo like wine from barossa shiraz look like another person alluded to? If you took ten vintages of it and put it together what can you expect? I have the same question regarding the other wines. From my research it seems like there were more than four labels in the past? So why four now?

I tremendously admire anyone who can sell out their wines every year while having minimal info on the web.

I believe there is a "continuity of a style or expression" as you phrased it between vintages. For some of the labels, the vineyards may have changed between vintages, but not from a different region. The style, however, remains consistent.

I don't see why the parcels/vineyards need to be identical each year. Penfolds Grange has a consistent style between vintages and its grapes are sourced from all over the place. Furthermore, in bad vintages such as 2011, there were no Standish wines produced because Dan didn't think the grapes were up to scratch and it would compromise the wine. Can't say that about Penfolds Grange.

'The Standish' now also features in the latest Langton's Classification, which is a measure of auction pedigree over a minimum of 10 vintages. It's also an indirect measure of quality and consistency between vintages.

Ozzie W wrote: I believe there is a "continuity of a style or expression" as you phrased it between vintages. For some of the labels, the vineyards may have changed between vintages, but not from a different region. The style, however, remains consistent.

It still seems impossible to find out any info about what the styles are, or any info on historic vintages. So how does a newbie begin to understand his wines?

Alex F wrote:

Ozzie W wrote: I believe there is a "continuity of a style or expression" as you phrased it between vintages. For some of the labels, the vineyards may have changed between vintages, but not from a different region. The style, however, remains consistent.

It still seems impossible to find out any info about what the styles are, or any info on historic vintages. So how does a newbie begin to understand his wines?

Visit the winery

Alex F wrote:

Ozzie W wrote: I believe there is a "continuity of a style or expression" as you phrased it between vintages. For some of the labels, the vineyards may have changed between vintages, but not from a different region. The style, however, remains consistent.

It still seems impossible to find out any info about what the styles are, or any info on historic vintages. So how does a newbie begin to understand his wines?

The Standish website is not very informative. I suggest you send Dan Standish an email. I'm sure he'd be more than happy to answer all your questions.

Sometimes not the most practical option, but it does seem to be an enjoyable experience from reports here.

Ozzie W wrote:

Alex F wrote:

Ozzie W wrote: I believe there is a "continuity of a style or expression" as you phrased it between vintages. For some of the labels, the vineyards may have changed between vintages, but not from a different region. The style, however, remains consistent.

It still seems impossible to find out any info about what the styles are, or any info on historic vintages. So how does a newbie begin to understand his wines?

The Standish website is not very informative. I suggest you send Dan Standish an email. I'm sure he'd be more than happy to answer all your questions.

Thanks, might try that

Alex F wrote:Is it to make this Barolo like wine from barossa shiraz look like another person alluded to?

Just to qualify this as I made that comment - the poster I was replying to had specifically brought up Barolo, hence why I made the comparison. Not that it necessarily sets out to be a Barolo styled wine or that Barolo is the closest stylistically to it, simply that Barolo was mentioned & I thought the comparison fair. For a little more detail - the tannin and acid line are what drove my comment - it has mouth coating layers of super fine grained tannin that just puckers away in a rather nebbiolo-esque manner, and well balanced acidity that frames the fruit - fruit that is big, yes, yet a clear cut away from your over-ripe, over-oaked, flabby fare that the Barossa is infamous for. Hope that helps clarify.