The Auswine Forum

pstarr wrote:It may be just me, but personally I find something not quite right about charging people at a dinner for bottles of wine you have already purchased and cellared and planned to drink.

It would be different if this was a group purchase from auction, or winery cellars or whatever, where people agree upfront to chip in and buy wines for a dinner, but this other way just seems to rub me up as ungenerous.

Why not just have people pay for food and contribute the wines as personal contributions?

I can see your point of view. However, given the quality of the wines on offer, I wouldn't quibble!

I have certainly noticed that a lot of people think of the wine in my cellar as free (including me). Because I have already paid for it, they and I often think of it as now free.

Only with a few people (who never offer any reciprocity) does it bother me. AFter all, it is my decision to buy it, I like to drink it with people, and there are those in my life to whom I am still in bottle deficit (thank you Steve, Stefan, and Gabriel).

RedVelvet wrote:The wine will be $250 per person for the original list above. If on the night we have any dead bottles we will have backups on hand including duplicates of some of those above. On the night we will make a decision around the table as to what back up/s to open (if any) and split their cost by the number of attendee's.

I share part of Pstarr's unease with some of the concept; namely if some/any of the wines are dead, other wines are produced at attendees expense even though they have already paid for their share of the dead wine. It is like a free put opton for Redvelvet. Attendees may have to pay twice.

Poor form to suggest this.

There’s a great philosophical debate here.

I think food and wine appears to be one of the last bastions of human culture yet to be totally corrupted by the by-lines of capitalism.

However, while I would consider it truly admirable for someone to cover the cost of such a tasting, for me personally I relish the opportunity to partake at what is actually a nominal sum.

Sure there’s an exchange of money but hopefully it facilities this experiences as opposed to taints it.

For those of us who are not attending, our opinion should be very carefully offered, in my view; after all, the invitation was always perfectly clear, and no-one was pressured into accepting it.

However, out of interest, I looked at Langton's auction prices, and did a rough calculation of the auction value of the wines. By my calculation, if you went to the trouble of purchasing all of these wines, you would pay somewhere in the order of 2,700-3,000. (A few did not have a price)

Given there are 8 people, you would have to pay significantly more than the amount that is being charged. And you would be just as likely (or more likely, given the care that has been taken) to have a corked wine.

It is a large investment in wine, and I would not be remotely offended at someone asking me to help pay for it, not if I were helping to drink it, anyway.

(Note to self; should I be spending so much time on this??)

For the opportunity to try some of the wines on offer, I am happy to contribute the funds requested.

It appears my last post has stirred some debate and a number of opinions have arisen to the way in which this has been organised.

Firstly i have learnt in life that you can not always please everyone. People will always agree and disagree based on their own opinions.

While i do not intend to get caught up in a long debate on the way this has been organised i will clarify and point out a few things.

Many of the wines to be consumed in this dinner actually do not come from my own cellar. They come from the cellar of a very good friend of mine (Gavin) who does not participate in online forums mainly due to his own lack of knowledge with computers and the internet. While not all of these wines have been cellared by Gavin or myself from purchase the provenance is known on all of them and to the best of our knowledge it is very good.

The amount of money requested from each person attending is to cover the cost of the wines only, we have not added anything extra. This has been split equally amongst everyone (including myself). I believe this also helps share any risk evenly and fairly from a financial perspective.

The suggestion to bring backups for some of the wines to be consumed as well as other backups and the way we should handle cost was suggested by and discussed with some of those who are attending. The way in which this could be done was also discussed. If any of the wines are dead and we split the cost of opening other wines i too am paying my share there is no special treatment for myself or anyone else.

We have no intention of forcing anyone participating to be a part of something they do not wish to be a part of. There is no intention of malice or anything unethical on mine or Gavin's part in bringing this occassion together.

The question of generosity i believe is in the eye of the beholder. Those who know me and those who will come to know me over time will be more qualified to answer this question.

While we could open and enjoy these wines on our own or with other friends who may or may not appreciate them we decided to do something a little different. We have invited the opportunity to make some new friends who would appreciate such wines and savour the opportunity as we do in trying these wines.

This also allows someone who does not have these wines or access to them the opportunity to try them (including myself). I personally am very greatful to my friend Gavin for giving myself and others the opportunity to partake in such a wonderful opportunity.

There has also been quite a considerable amount of time, thought and energy gone into the planning of this evening and i, as i am sure all those who attending will agree, am very much looking forward to this evening and sharing with you all the outcome here in the forums.

I am deeply ashamed to see those on this forum criticising RedVelvet's generosity in terms of sourcing and storing these wines for eventual comsumption, sharing the opportunity with others (strangers I might add) on this forum for a sensational wine event. RedVelvet could just have as easily chosen to consume these gems with the better half slowly, and post the notes for us to salivate over, but rather, has chosen to SHARE the experience with some of us on the forum. Shame on you to think otherwise, and worse so, to overtly slander without any substantiation!

GROW UP!

This tall poppy syndrome crap is tiresome...

Shame, Shame, Shame...

Guys, have a great night, and RedVelvet, good on ya!

monghead wrote:I am deeply ashamed to see those on this forum criticising RedVelvet's generosity in terms of sourcing and storing these wines for eventual comsumption, sharing the opportunity with others (strangers I might add) on this forum for a sensational wine event. RedVelvet could just have as easily chosen to consume these gems with the better half slowly, and post the notes for us to salivate over, but rather, has chosen to SHARE the experience with some of us on the forum. Shame on you to think otherwise, and worse so, to overtly slander without any substantiation!

GROW UP!

This tall poppy syndrome crap is tiresome...

Shame, Shame, Shame...

Guys, have a great night, and RedVelvet, good on ya!

I think you may have missed my point here. For me, personally, for my ethics, if I have bought and cellared wine, then sharing it with others should be a gift - an act of generosity - free of any expectation of recompense or reciprocity.

I fully understand other people approach these things differently, but for me, charging others for wines I've bought goes against the grain of why I care about wine.

Not a tall-poppy thing at all - more a philosophical difference, grounded in a belief that sharing great wine is reward enough.

pstarr wrote:

monghead wrote:I am deeply ashamed to see those on this forum criticising RedVelvet's generosity in terms of sourcing and storing these wines for eventual comsumption, sharing the opportunity with others (strangers I might add) on this forum for a sensational wine event. RedVelvet could just have as easily chosen to consume these gems with the better half slowly, and post the notes for us to salivate over, but rather, has chosen to SHARE the experience with some of us on the forum. Shame on you to think otherwise, and worse so, to overtly slander without any substantiation!

GROW UP!

This tall poppy syndrome crap is tiresome...

Shame, Shame, Shame...

Guys, have a great night, and RedVelvet, good on ya!

I think you may have missed my point here. For me, personally, for my ethics, if I have bought and cellared wine, then sharing it with others should be a gift - an act of generosity - free of any expectation of recompense or reciprocity.

I fully understand other people approach these things differently, but for me, charging others for wines I've bought goes against the grain of why I care about wine.

Not a tall-poppy thing at all - more a philosophical difference, grounded in a belief that sharing great wine is reward enough.

OK, I may have been a little harsh... But come on, you can't expect RedVelvet to front up over $2000 worth of wines for complete and utter strangers could you??? For family, and friends (close ones) yeah, fair enough, but for members of this forum..... I think not. I believe the fact RedVelvet is willing to SHARE these gems with some of us quick and lucky enough to respond to the thread is GIFT and an act of GENEROSITY enough. To suggest otherwise is frankly pathetic...

Hello all,

For those who are attending on Friday evening, i forgot to ask if there was any specific dietary requirements among the group? if there is could you please let me know as soon as possible and i will try to have your requirements accomodated.

I will update the thread soon with the menu details.

No special requirements for Kerry and me, Shannon.

JL

I hate and loath beetroot.

I humbly suggest having quite a few suitable back-ups. Apart from the normal vagaries of bad corks in general, I can't offer much confidence in the following wines on the list (even with the caveat of very good cellaring previously mentioned by the organiser).

1976 Pol BdB (last one tried in the 90's was oxidised and sherry-like)

1979 Leo Buring (drank dozens of these for over two decades now, have not had a good one in the new millenium)

1995 Leeuwin Estate (50/50 chance or worse of being overblown and past it, no matter how well stored - ditched mine years ago)

1976 Grange (Has a track record of inconsistency)

1958 Colin Preece Burgundy (I wish you the best of luck with this one)

Please do not take this as negative criticism of your choices. Over the last year I've opened an exceptional '62 Grange (original cork) and an even better '67 Bin 7 (1994 clinic). I'm hoping your '66 will be up there, too. Remember, there's no great vintages, only great bottles when they're this old. I hope my predictions turn out to be wrong and every bottle is a winner. But don't hold your breath.

Hope you all have a good, no, great night!

no problems here with any food.

dlo wrote:I humbly suggest having quite a few suitable back-ups. Apart from the normal vagaries of bad corks in general, I can't offer much confidence in the following wines on the list (even with the caveat of very good cellaring previously mentioned by the organiser).

1976 Pol BdB (last one tried in the 90's was oxidised and sherry-like)

1979 Leo Buring (drank dozens of these for over two decades now, have not had a good one in the new millenium)

1995 Leeuwin Estate (50/50 chance or worse of being overblown and past it, no matter how well stored - ditched mine years ago)

1976 Grange (Has a track record of inconsistency)

1958 Colin Preece Burgundy (I wish you the best of luck with this one)

Please do not take this as negative criticism of your choices. Over the last year I've opened an exceptional '62 Grange (original cork) and an even better '67 Bin 7 (1994 clinic). I'm hoping your '66 will be up there, too. Remember, there's no great vintages, only great bottles when they're this old. I hope my predictions turn out to be wrong and every bottle is a winner. But don't hold your breath.

Hope you all have a good, no, great night!

Hi David,

Always interested to hear some constructive opinions. The 95 LEAS i have tasted twice in the last 6mths and both bottles were sensational and enjoyed by all who they were shared with. I hope on the night this will also be the case.

As for the others you have mentioned it will be my first tasting so i am unfamilliar with all. I agree with you in regard to great old bottles rather than great vintages and on this occassion i guess we all have our fingers crossed that those great old bottles will be with us.

We certainly will have a number of appropriate back up wines with us on the night so as to cover for any dead or tainted bottles.

It will be a wonderfull evening regardless and the outcome will certainly be posted here.

Hello All,

I was wondering if any forumites could give an insight into the suggested decanting time for some of these wines, particularly if you have had some recent experience with any of the reds in this dinner?

I do have my own idea on how long some of these wines should or should not be decanted but would appreciate any feedback that anyone could give with regard to recent experience?

Thanking you all in advance.

Hello All,

Unfortunately Rooman is unable to join us on friday so there is now a spare seat at the table. If anyone is interested in taking his place could you please PM me as soon as possible.

This evening i received the special purpose built menu from Bernadette and Darren at Atelier via email. The food and wine courses are listed below Just thinking about it is making me hungry.

I should also point out that course seven is matched with a 77 Beeranauslese which i personally snuck into the list of wines after trying it recently and thinking it magnificent enough to want to share with those attending.

Pol Roger with Canapés

Course 1: Krug
Wild Iranian Caviar Two-Ways, Potato Blinis & White Chocolate

Course 2: Leo Buring
Kangaroo Island Marron Tail, Foie Gras Mousse, Pea & Ham Ice Cream, Fresh Pea Salad

Course 3: Leeuwin Estate
Jamon Iberico, Fennel Agar, Pickled Girolles, & Cipolinne, Seared Scallop

Colin Preece – no food

Course 4: John Riddoch
Roasted Rack of lamb, Fresh Burgundian Summer Truffle, Potato Gnocchi, Seared Foie Gras

Course 5: 707
Cocoa-Roasted Striploin of New Zealand Venison, Baby Turnips, Confit Carrot Puree, Liquorice-Infused Sauce

Course 6: seasonal Selection of Cheese with both Grange

Course 7: Beeranauslese
Tahitian Vanilla & Chocolate Fudge Souffle, Malt-Chocolate Ice Cream, Malt Milkshake


All Saints - no food

Shannon,

This looks like a great event. I would have happily forked out those Pacific Pesos had I been in Oz at the time. I'm looking forward to the write-up.

Cheers

Mike

Gee, the menu looks good. I'll be interested to see what people think of the pea and ham ice cream though!

RedVelvet wrote:Hello All,

Unfortunately Rooman is unable to join us on friday so there is now a spare seat at the table. If anyone is interested in taking his place could you please PM me as soon as possible.

My apologizes for this but I am now heading to the land of the long white cloud Thursday for work and not back until next week. I will sorely miss the evening and new faces.

RedVelvet wrote:

dlo wrote:I humbly suggest having quite a few suitable back-ups. Apart from the normal vagaries of bad corks in general, I can't offer much confidence in the following wines on the list (even with the caveat of very good cellaring previously mentioned by the organiser).

1976 Pol BdB (last one tried in the 90's was oxidised and sherry-like)

1979 Leo Buring (drank dozens of these for over two decades now, have not had a good one in the new millenium)

1995 Leeuwin Estate (50/50 chance or worse of being overblown and past it, no matter how well stored - ditched mine years ago)

1976 Grange (Has a track record of inconsistency)

1958 Colin Preece Burgundy (I wish you the best of luck with this one)

Please do not take this as negative criticism of your choices. Over the last year I've opened an exceptional '62 Grange (original cork) and an even better '67 Bin 7 (1994 clinic). I'm hoping your '66 will be up there, too. Remember, there's no great vintages, only great bottles when they're this old. I hope my predictions turn out to be wrong and every bottle is a winner. But don't hold your breath.

Hope you all have a good, no, great night!

Hi David,

Always interested to hear some constructive opinions. The 95 LEAS i have tasted twice in the last 6mths and both bottles were sensational and enjoyed by all who they were shared with. I hope on the night this will also be the case.

As for the others you have mentioned it will be my first tasting so i am unfamilliar with all. I agree with you in regard to great old bottles rather than great vintages and on this occassion i guess we all have our fingers crossed that those great old bottles will be with us.

We certainly will have a number of appropriate back up wines with us on the night so as to cover for any dead or tainted bottles.

It will be a wonderfull evening regardless and the outcome will certainly be posted here.

I'm glad to hear you've had two good recent experiences with the 1995 Leeuwin. I've been drinking the Art Series since the heady days of their 1981 vintage (the 1982 being my all-time favourite, but that's another story). I'm not the greatest fan of Leeuwin's more recent 14.5%+ A/V offerings, although my first bottle of 2005 (immediately after release) almost sucked me in. Subsequent bottles were so oaky and alcoholic, I was sorely tempted to present to casualty for splinter removal, 2nd degree burns and heat stroke.

Again, best wishes for a terrific night.

Those people who are attending this dinner could you please check your private messages and give me a call asap.

The restaurant has advised me of a rather attractive inclusion on our menu but i need to speak to you all before we make a decision whether to go ahead or not with the change/inclusion. Darren and Bernadette contacted me this evening to let me know they have a very rare opportunity to offer the inclusion of Imperial Wild Iranian Sturgeon Caviar (not the wild iranian already on the menu) but it does come at an extra premium which i would prefer to discuss in person.

Darren has advised me that it is the first time he has seen this premium rarity outside of his work as a chef in London. I will discuss the details further with each of you when you call me.

RedVelvet wrote:Those people who are attending this dinner could you please check your private messages and give me a call asap.

The restaurant has advised me of a rather attractive inclusion on our menu but i need to speak to you all before we make a decision whether to go ahead or not with the change/inclusion. Darren and Bernadette contacted me this evening to let me know they have a very rare opportunity to offer the inclusion of Imperial Wild Iranian Sturgeon Caviar (not the wild iranian already on the menu) but it does come at an extra premium which i would prefer to discuss in person.

Darren has advised me that it is the first time he has seen this premium rarity outside of his work as a chef in London. I will discuss the details further with each of you when you call me.

sheessh haven't you lot ever heard of food miles ?! granted, food sounds excellent.

The spare seat at the dinner has now been filled. Thanks Orpheus for joining us at such short notice, i am looking forward to meeting you.

I should also point out that after discussion with all who are attending the menu will remain unchanged and the Wild Iranian Imperial Beluga Caviar will not be included on this occassion.

For all those attending i have decided to bring some of my own Riedel glass ware for all to use. Due to wines we will be tasting i will be bringing 8 champagne (prestige Cuvee) and 8 Shiraz glasses from the Vinum range.

The other wines we will have to use the house glass ware as i do not have enough in each range to cover everyone attending. If anyone wishes to bring their own glass ware they are also quite welcome to do so.

Let me first say, have a great night!

And secondly I'd love to be there if there is a next one. Indeed if events like this became more popular, I would love be one of a group of like minded people sharing good wine at good restaurants on a semi-regular basis. I know there's a wide representation of people on this forum, from regular Grange and Krug drinkers to Bin 28 and NZ savvy enthusiasts. (I fall about half way in between I think FWIW.), so I wonder what the interest would be like for more events such as this, either organised by a single person as RedVelvet has done, or on a bring a special bottle basis...?

Cheers
TiggerK

Just a final reminder to all:

Dinner is:

7pm Friday 7th August
In the private dining room.

Restaurant Atelier
22 Glebe Point Rd
Glebe
http://restaurantatelier.com.au/ for anyone who may wish to check it out.

See you all tomorrow evening

[/quote] [Rooman] My apologizes for this but I am now heading to the land of the long white cloud Thursday for work ...[/quote]

Also known as "the Land of the long flat vowel".


John

The wine Gods smiled upon us last night only one past it wine out of the whole line up.

No notes, too early in the morning.

1966 Grange - Magnificent
1976 Grange - Magnificent
1982 Riddoch - Sensational
1977 Ferdinand Pieroth Beerenauslese - Magic
1994 - Henschke Hill of Grace - Brooding Power
1939 Seppelt Para Liquer - huge length that went around and came back again.
1988 Krug - Wonderful, huge length, still fresh and acidic
1990 707 - Wonderful.
+ many more.

Many, many thanks to RedVelvet for organising this night. Also thanks to all for the great company, the food was wonderful. mmmm green apples. I didn't get all the dishes (too busy drinking, talking)